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  1. Blackberry_Fiend's Avatar
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    Default Compelling argument on apps vs browser?

    I believe this to be my first post ever, but I could be wrong. Also a strong possibility I'm posting in the wrong "SECTION". If so, my apologies.

    I ran across this article on USA today (online). If anything, I think it helps explain the downside to app use/dependency and why a great browsing experience should be a HUGE commodity on a mobile device.

    Browsing Web on iPad stinks, and Apple likes it that way

    Thoughts?
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  2. Shintocam's Avatar
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    I've just briefly looked at the article (plan to read it all later in more depth) but in general I agree. I usually prefer using a full website over an app. Not always - there are some definite cases where a dedicated app makes a huge difference (silly example - but the GO Transit app here in Toronto for the Blackberry (OS7) is WAY better than their website). I like a rich browsing experience like on the Playbook. While I like Crackberry's PB app, I still usually access CB through the browser on my PB (and the full site, not the mobile one).

    I love the BB is supporting Flash, and HTML5 to ensure that most websites work as they should (just bring on some support for h264 so I can watch trailers on Apples stupid website and I'll be in heaven.

    I do think Apple LOVES making browsing crippled so more people will go to an App.
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  3. Semi5's Avatar
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    I hate to say it, but its always the fans of the platforms with very few apps that always bring this up. You never see iOS, Android, or Windows desktop users looking to replace their native apps with web sites. The reason is native apps offer a far more pleasing and complete experience.
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  4. LoganSix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semi5 View Post
    You never see iOS, Android, or Windows desktop users looking to replace their native apps with web sites. The reason is native apps offer a far more pleasing and complete experience.

    So, what you are saying is, the web browser experience on those devices is so poor that they'd rather use apps.
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  5. Semi5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganSix View Post
    So, what you are saying is, the web browser experience on those devices is so poor that they'd rather use apps.
    or I'm saying that web apps dont offer the interaction with my contacts, calendar, camera, etc. that native apps do. I also might be saying that native apps are specifically designed to the screen dimensions, and resolution of my device so usually the UI is far better. I might also say that games in a web browser is usually an awful experience (here comes the flash game lovers). I might also bring up that iOS and Android developers have had the opportunity to create web apps instead of their native apps for years but mostly choose not too (because their paying customers prefer native).
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  6. Semi5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrohland View Post
    I didn't read the article but... The choice is not apps or browser. The ideal choice is browser delivered apps. It is not too big a surprise so many people don't understand that HTML5 is going to make the question of app or browser moot. When you open a link to a URL, you will get a dynamically delivered app that is indistinguishable from a native app. When you close it, the app is gone. It does not occupy resources on your device. However, settings and content you modified will be saved in the cloud. Next time you open the app, on your BB, PlayBook, PC, Citrix session at work or wherever, the app state you last saw is what you will see again.
    When that happens, then there might be a conversation about it. For now, native apps offer a better experience.
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  7. qbnkelt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Compelling argument on apps vs browser?

    If I'm browsing, meaning just spending time following my nose down a rabbit hole, I like to use the browser. Free flowing, stream of consciousness, no defined goal, just going for a virtual Sunday drive. And I love the browser on my iPad. I've got no clue what downside anyone would find with it.
    If there is something I want to do, like post my car insurance bill, I want in and out. Click, yes, submit, log off. For that, I want my app.



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  8. mikeo007's Avatar
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    Default Compelling argument on apps vs browser?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrohland View Post
    I didn't read the article but... The choice is not apps or browser. The ideal choice is browser delivered apps. It is not too big a surprise so many people don't understand that HTML5 is going to make the question of app or browser moot. When you open a link to a URL, you will get a dynamically delivered app that is indistinguishable from a native app. When you close it, the app is gone. It does not occupy resources on your device. However, settings and content you modified will be saved in the cloud. Next time you open the app, on your BB, PlayBook, PC, Citrix session at work or wherever, the app state you last saw is what you will see again.
    So in your vision, all phone will require a constant Internet connection to do anything.
    Go get some apps!
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    Symptom Journal - Track medical symptoms and causes (Built For BlackBerry)
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  9. qbnkelt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Compelling argument on apps vs browser?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrohland View Post
    I didn't read the article but... The choice is not apps or browser. The ideal choice is browser delivered apps. It is not too big a surprise so many people don't understand that HTML5 is going to make the question of app or browser moot. When you open a link to a URL, you will get a dynamically delivered app that is indistinguishable from a native app. When you close it, the app is gone. It does not occupy resources on your device. However, settings and content you modified will be saved in the cloud. Next time you open the app, on your BB, PlayBook, PC, Citrix session at work or wherever, the app state you last saw is what you will see again.
    That would drive me nuts.
    If I want to order pet food, I want the home page so I can choose which animal I'm shopping for. I go on cycles of bulk purchases. If I want to buy cat food I don't want to go back to two weeks ago when I bought dog food. I want the app home page.
    I open the app, click the animal food, do last dog food order, submit, off. Next week, open app, click the animal food, do last cat food order, submit, off.
    That's how I like it.





    Sent from my SEXY HOT RED SGIII using Tapatalk 2
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  10. Alex_Hong's Avatar
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    I seem to remember that when the iPhone first came about, Steve Jobs fought hard against apps on the iphone. He wanted web apps, but at that point in time, web apps isn't as great as it is now. When he saw the performance of web apps, he gave in. Just look at Sencha's html5 FaceBook app, its a brilliant example.

    There are times when a browser works better than an app. Like if i'm just browsing articles here and there, looking for new information, things like that. Like for example when researching on a topic, i like information from different sources. With the browser I can have tabs from various sources. Whereas if i use apps I would probably need to have a lot of apps open at the same time, and that still wouldn't be sufficient information. Also not to mention I can have many instances of the same website running if I wish. In this instance, the browser is a much better choice.

    There are also times when an app works better than a browser. Especially when an app is well built. Like Banking apps for example, the full website is usually cluttered and difficult to use, whereas the apps are built for mobile UI, so easier to use while providing most of the functions available. Transit apps too, since when you're on the go, you want information to be presented in a clear manner. Using location services, the transit app can automatically pin point your location and show only information relavant to your location. Making the search for information a lot more easy, and much faster.

    So for me, why the need to choose? Why not have a great browser along with a good app ecosystem?
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  11. DenverRalphy's Avatar
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    #11  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrohland View Post
    I didn't read the article but... The choice is not apps or browser. The ideal choice is browser delivered apps. It is not too big a surprise so many people don't understand that HTML5 is going to make the question of app or browser moot. When you open a link to a URL, you will get a dynamically delivered app that is indistinguishable from a native app. When you close it, the app is gone. It does not occupy resources on your device. However, settings and content you modified will be saved in the cloud. Next time you open the app, on your BB, PlayBook, PC, Citrix session at work or wherever, the app state you last saw is what you will see again.
    There have been attempts at HTML5 apps, most of which failed miserably. One example is Facebook. Facebook dumped their HTML5 apps in favor of native apps it was that miserable, and that was after a long dedicated effort to make it work. Love em or hate em, it's not like the developers at Facebook are amateurs trying to slap something together. HTML5 is sluggish compared to a native app, can't access the hardware of the device (ie, camera), and requires more data than native apps. The only real advantage to HTML5 apps is the ability to update the app at the source once, without having to redesign for multiple platforms, and with no need to deploy for install. However, that advantage pales in comparison to performance and user satisfaction.

    A simple example are forums... A native app like TapaTalk is far and away better than using a mobile forum from the browser. All the app needs is the text of the content to be sent, and it receives that rapidly. No wasting time downloading all the extra data used for the site design, no wait times for page reloads.

    HTML5 apps would really only be beneficial for small simple repetitive tasks. Anything of substance though, native apps will quickly become more important. Take Google Maps for example... I couldn't ever imagine using their mobile web app in place of the native app.
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  12. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
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    #12  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Semi5 View Post
    I hate to say it, but its always the fans of the platforms with very few apps that always bring this up. You never see iOS, Android, or Windows desktop users looking to replace their native apps with web sites. The reason is native apps offer a far more pleasing and complete experience.
    Yep. It generally works that way. As if the other platforms have bad browsers. They don't.

    Of course, someone will soon mention brainwashing or the "appification" of the world by Apple as a valid excuse. Apps, as of now, offer better experiences in some very compelling cases, which is why quality apps are in high demand.
  13. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Hong View Post
    So for me, why the need to choose? Why not have a great browser along with a good app ecosystem?
    Bam. Well said.
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  14. garnok's Avatar
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    apps is important , not every apps have web browser version and for some apps that have browser version it not as good as apps version because website / web browser are being design mainly to use on PC device,while apps are being design on specific mobile platform (touch based device) that is why the UI and performance sometimes better in apps version.
  15. brmiller1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semi5 View Post
    I hate to say it, but its always the fans of the platforms with very few apps that always bring this up. You never see iOS, Android, or Windows desktop users looking to replace their native apps with web sites. The reason is native apps offer a far more pleasing and complete experience.
    Actually, I believe the opposite. For example, how many Windows desktop users would give up their online banking web site to get a Windows app for online banking instead? Very few.

    Capital One has a mobile website that runs and looks just like their "app." I just open that up in an HTML5-compatible browser and voila, I can get everything I need finished done fast.

    A crappy app can take weeks or months to be fixed and updated (just look at Facebook for Android as an example -- it's a buggy mess). A web site or HTML5 "app" can be updated and fixed within minutes and rolled out without long review cycles, update notifications, etc.

    As the web becomes more advanced, the lines between "web site" and "app" will blur. With ubiquitous and fast 4G LTE networks and efficient data streaming, the mobile website IS the app of the future. Just as the web browser on the desktop replaced proprietary apps (and gave Apple the ability to revive its Mac business), the mobile HTML5 browser will reduce the importance of the "app."
  16. #16  

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    Sometimes, an app just offers a better experience optimized for a smaller smartphone screen. For example, when browsing forums on my phone, I'll use Tapatalk or the CB10 app. On a tablet, I prefer to use the browser, even though I can get Tapatalk for tablets as well. It doesn't have to be one or the other. It's nice to have the choice.
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    #17  

    Default Compelling argument on apps vs browser?

    Quote Originally Posted by qbnkelt View Post
    That would drive me nuts.
    If I want to order pet food, I want the home page so I can choose which animal I'm shopping for. I go on cycles of bulk purchases. If I want to buy cat food I don't want to go back to two weeks ago when I bought dog food. I want the app home page.
    I open the app, click the animal food, do last dog food order, submit, off. Next week, open app, click the animal food, do last cat food order, submit, off.
    That's how I like it.





    Sent from my SEXY HOT RED SGIII using Tapatalk 2
    He's not saying it has to work that way. Just giving an example of what can be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DenverRalphy View Post
    There have been attempts at HTML5 apps, most of which failed miserably. One example is Facebook. Facebook dumped their HTML5 apps in favor of native apps it was that miserable, and that was after a long dedicated effort to make it work. Love em or hate em, it's not like the developers at Facebook are amateurs trying to slap something together. HTML5 is sluggish compared to a native app, can't access the hardware of the device (ie, camera), and requires more data than native apps. The only real advantage to HTML5 apps is the ability to update the app at the source once, without having to redesign for multiple platforms, and with no need to deploy for install. However, that advantage pales in comparison to performance and user satisfaction.

    A simple example are forums... A native app like TapaTalk is far and away better than using a mobile forum from the browser. All the app needs is the text of the content to be sent, and it receives that rapidly. No wasting time downloading all the extra data used for the site design, no wait times for page reloads.

    HTML5 apps would really only be beneficial for small simple repetitive tasks. Anything of substance though, native apps will quickly become more important. Take Google Maps for example... I couldn't ever imagine using their mobile web app in place of the native app.
    It can access the hardware, at least on a BlackBerry. And Facebook html5 works fine on the z10, fully functional including real time chat.


    http://blogs.blackberry.com/2012/09/...browser-video/

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  19. bekkay's Avatar
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    #19  

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    If you believe that all you need is a web browser you must realize that you may be a minority.

    Proof?

    Android. It has capable browsers, better hardware for browsing (larger, greater resolution screens), but yet apps are immensely popular among Android users. Check the top apps and you'll see that many of those apps can be avoided by going to a mobile website. However, people still prefer the app.
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekkay View Post
    If you believe that all you need is a web browser you must realize that you may be a minority.

    Proof?

    Android. It has capable browsers, better hardware for browsing (larger, greater resolution screens), but yet apps are immensely popular among Android users. Check the top apps and you'll see that many of those apps can be avoided by going to a mobile website. However, people still prefer the app.
    Yes but think how much better for us it would be when a developer only has to build one html5 app (FYI, BB10 browser smokes all android browsers and even desktop browsers in html5 tests) that will work on all platforms.

    Of course this will not apply to all apps, but most day to day apps could easily be used just n a Web app format.



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    Have a look at m.bbc.co.uk and then tell me if you still want an app for it.

    Watch live TV, live radio, podcasts etc etc everything you need with the "App" only taking 27kb of storage on your device.

    Posted via CB10
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    Quote Originally Posted by brmiller1976 View Post
    Actually, I believe the opposite. For example, how many Windows desktop users would give up their online banking web site to get a Windows app for online banking instead? Very few.

    Capital One has a mobile website that runs and looks just like their "app." I just open that up in an HTML5-compatible browser and voila, I can get everything I need finished done fast.

    A crappy app can take weeks or months to be fixed and updated (just look at Facebook for Android as an example -- it's a buggy mess). A web site or HTML5 "app" can be updated and fixed within minutes and rolled out without long review cycles, update notifications, etc.

    As the web becomes more advanced, the lines between "web site" and "app" will blur. With ubiquitous and fast 4G LTE networks and efficient data streaming, the mobile website IS the app of the future. Just as the web browser on the desktop replaced proprietary apps (and gave Apple the ability to revive its Mac business), the mobile HTML5 browser will reduce the importance of the "app."
    Not sure what buggy mess you mean. FB on my iPhone, my iPad and my SGIII give me no troubles.

    Additionally, when the web becomes more advanced and the lines between web site an app blur, we can revisit this. But I live today and I want to accomplish things today....let R&D work on the futre but I will use my available apps today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackBerry Guy View Post
    Sometimes, an app just offers a better experience optimized for a smaller smartphone screen. For example, when browsing forums on my phone, I'll use Tapatalk or the CB10 app. On a tablet, I prefer to use the browser, even though I can get Tapatalk for tablets as well. It doesn't have to be one or the other. It's nice to have the choice.
    Exactly.

    I love Tapatalk on my Android and my iPhone. The one on BB is a mess.

    And I find it hilarious how many anti app people post how anti app they are while using an app to post on CB.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southlander View Post
    He's not saying it has to work that way. Just giving an example of what can be done.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Torch 9850 using Tapatalk
    Yup....I undertand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganSix View Post
    So, what you are saying is, the web browser experience on those devices is so poor that they'd rather use apps.
    No, those iOS and Android devices offer a browser that is a pleasure to use, as opposed to the painful 9900 browser that I avoid using like the plague.

    I use apps on those devices because they offer an experience optimised for a mobile device on the go But I'm sure you knew that.
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