[IndianTiwari]

If they had released an all touch flagship things would be different. Not much but thru would have been different.

Posted via CB10

Agree with you . If z30 successor was launched before , today things would have been very different .

[Raestloz]

I agree with a lot you are saying but this isn't the first time Chen has tried to sell a phone. That's giving him way to mug of a pass. He tried to sell the Passport, Leap, and Classic, and failed hard. This isn't "Now Chen is finally running the ship." It's his last ditch effort to make an impact in handset sales.

To be fair, by the time Chen got the ship Passport is probably already underway. Passport was released in 2014, and developing the hardware for the keyboard alone probably took at least 4 months

Z10STL100-1/10.3.1.2576

[Tre Lawrence]

Agree with you . If z30 successor was launched before , today things would have been very different .

In what way?

In terms of BBRY needs, BB10 has not delivered. I fail to see how another device would have done anything but lead to more losses.

[bh7171]

Chen knew, before he took the job, that BB10 wasn't a product he could sell. While hobbyists are okay with sideloading, patching, alternative app stores, hunting down working APKs, etc., that's simply not something you can sell to the general public - and BB World is also not something you could sell to the general public. Essentially, without a robust, native app store where you can find any app you need, tap Install, and know for sure that it was going to work (and continue to work after the next update), you simply don't have a product you can sell to the general market - it's not competitive in a market when the Top 3 players (or, at least the Top 2) have exactly that functionality. That's not even mentioning BB's lack of services and lack of compatible 3rd-party hardware (wearables, for example).

The money Chen would have spent on advertising would not (based on his estimates, we can assume) have been offset by a large enough increase in profits, based on projected sales, to make it worth doing - the demand for an OS with few apps, fewer services, and virtually no 3rd-Party hardware support is just far too small.

Again, no one is saying that BB10, the OS, is bad - it isn't. It just isn't relevant or competitive because it's only one component of an entire ecosystem, and BB's ecosystem is almost non-existent beyond the OS. The battle for OSs was over in 2010 - the battle since then has been about ecosystems, and when you look at it that way, it's very easy to see why BB10 is a failed product in the marketplace. And there's no use throwing good money after bad by paying to advertise it - you'd mostly end up getting people into carrier stores only to have the carrier talk them into something else anyway.

I hope the carriers choke on all the BS they have been pushed to sell. In addition to their pathetic OS update schedules. As more and more buy unlocked, unbranded phones (as many are) their crappy influence will wane and people will be satisfied with their devices longer due to OS updates. In the US I can see the carriers dumping loads of retail space, stores and employees as the un-locked, un branded reduced cost of mobile phone momentum picks up. Motorola has completely ignored carriers with their latest phones, similar to Nexus devices. Even Apple sees the handwriting on the wall and is selling directly to the consumer. It will be a really, really interesting next couple of years. If Microsoft gets traction with Windows 10 they could flood the market with low priced mobile devices, like Android. Who knows Apple in 2 years could be in a similar situation with Mobile as they are with Macs in regards to market share.

Z30 wickedness

[Troy Tiscareno]

Unfortunately, as long as the carriers will continue to finance phones for people, the majority of people will still buy their phone from their carrier.

I know CB has lots of people who are the exception to that, just like I am (my last carrier-financed phone was my WinMo 6 HTC Titan), but even with the large growth in the pre-paid market, I'd guess that over 65% of Americans with a cell phone purchased that phone from their carrier.

[gt0520]

Troy Tiscanero, you're killing it with your analysis. Well done.

Posted via CB10

[IndianTiwari]

In what way?

In terms of BBRY needs, BB10 has not delivered. I fail to see how another device would have done anything but lead to more losses.

Yes Sir I agree with you completely that BB10 failed to deliver . There was a time when there was massive demand for Z30 successor but instead Leap, Classic and Passport was launched . I was myself using Z30 during that period and being a fanatic i went on to purchase 3 Passports but many other BBRY users didnt buy the device as they felt need for Z30 successor all touch flagship brand. This might have got additional numbers as well IMO.
Will also buy the Priv as well . But nothing will move unless NEW CUSTOMERS convert from other brands to buy the Priv . Going by the reports Priv will be a force to reckon with. Finally JC is on the right track for securing the device business.

[Emaderton3]

Yes Sir I agree with you completely that BB10 failed to deliver . There was a time when there was massive demand for Z30 successor but instead Leap, Classic and Passport was launched . I was myself using Z30 during that period and being a fanatic i went on to purchase 3 Passports but many other BBRY users didnt buy the device as they felt need for Z30 successor all touch flagship brand. This might have got additional numbers as well IMO.
Will also buy the Priv as well . But nothing will move unless NEW CUSTOMERS convert from other brands to buy the Priv . Going by the reports Priv will be a force to reckon with. Finally JC is on the right track for securing the device business.

Massive demand or just people that already had the Z10 or Z30 and wanted to upgrade? I think the damage was done by then. A phone that made coffee and drove your car would not have saved things. Unfortunately, BB10 users are getting left behind. And it isn't just social apps. Professional apps are coming out like crazy and only available for the Big Two. I am at a point where I will probably have to switch. Sideloading and Amazon don't cut it anymore. I don't have time to tinker with apps and hope they work but don't kill my battery.

Posted via CB10

[hoonigan99]

The average user is not going to bother with snap and patching. They just want their phone to work.

Posted via CB10

Exactly!

I spend a lot of time on CB and I shamelessly plug BlackBerry every chance I get; but that has not lead me to be even slightly interested in sideloading, I could not even begin to tell you how. (yes I know there are numerous threads and other resources)

I fully recognize I am part of a minority that doesn't care about apps. IMO, a $500+ phone should come with all the necessary tools already installed, this is after all why I chose BlackBerry so many years ago.

But I recognize that the masses want to play on snapchat and candycrush or whatever the newest revolutionary time waster is. I also recognize that there are productive apps that BlackBerry users are missing out on. Side loading is not a viable alternative to a true app ecosystem, it lacks security, brings instability and is far too complicated for the masses. Even something as simple as a different android launcher is well beyond the capacity and abilities of most people, it is only the technically inclined and inspired who delve deep into their phones to learn all the tools and abilities that can be unlocked with modifications/apps.

That being said, I am not happy that the Priv is an android phone, I would much prefer BB10, after all I don't need or care about the newest app of the week, and quite frankly the idea of searching through hundreds, or thousands of different productivity apps with similar, but different features, most of which are from companies I have never heard and do not trust with access to the entirety of my life that lives within my phone is daunting at best.

I sincerely hope that Chen has planned this to save the hardware division, hopefully living on as offering two OS's. We will see how things go, and for that reason I hope for the Priv to reach success like we have not seen for many years. If it does not, we have lost a great Canadian company, an alternative in a market dominated by massive corporations. It will be a sad day, but it is a reality of capitalism and the global market. The best innovations or solutions are not always those that succeed, it is the ones that get pushed by companies with $$, political and corporate swaying power.



BB for Life

[bh7171]

Unfortunately, as long as the carriers will continue to finance phones for people, the majority of people will still buy their phone from their carrier.

I know CB has lots of people who are the exception to that, just like I am (my last carrier-financed phone was my WinMo 6 HTC Titan), but even with the large growth in the pre-paid market, I'd guess that over 65% of Americans with a cell phone purchased that phone from their carrier.

I can see carriers riding themselves of device sales. Do we as consumers buy our home computers or laptops from our Internet providers? All the carriers have done is held up bogus costs and completely F'd up the OS update process creating a duopoly that does none of us consumers any good. And all at a phenomenal cost in lease space, employees, etc. I think that's why AT&T and Verizon are going to lease floor space in Best Buy stores here in the US. Obviously you can see I am no fan of anything carrier branded. As soon as Apple demonstrated to AT&T how to monetize and sell data (and BlackBerry actually compressed it) it was game over for BlackBerry commercially. And of course all of BlackBerry's gaffes along the way. This being said BlackBerry 10.3.2 kicks all kind of *** over Apple and Android from an efficiency stand point. I have experience with all OS's and none handle actual work related mobile communications like BlackBerry 10. Not even close.

Z30 wickedness

[Troy Tiscareno]

I can see carriers riding themselves of device sales. Do we as consumers buy our home computers or laptops from our Internet providers? All the carriers have done is held up bogus costs and completely F'd up the OS update process creating a duopoly that does none of us consumers any good. And all at a phenomenal cost in lease space, employees, etc. I think that's why AT&T and Verizon are going to lease floor space in Best Buy stores here in the US.

The US is a fairly unique country, in that it is quite large, but also wealthy, so that we have extremely high levels of cell phone penetration along with a huge amount of territory to cover - along with an incredible amount of competition for frequency spectrum. This lead to the US having multiple carriers using other-than-GSM global standard phone hardware - something not found in most countries. Further, this meant that phones had to be built that were unique to each carrier, and for the most part could not be moved from one carrier to another (and the relatively few exceptions that can be moved are usually limited in capabilities on the other network).

This led the US to a retail situation where carriers, instead of manufacturers, sold phones to customers and provided front-line support for them - in most other countries (that use GSM standards), your phone purchase is largely independent of your carrier, and you can easily move your phone from one carrier to another.

And since the carriers were the ones selling and supporting the phones, it was good for the carriers' business to finance phones for their customers (along with a contract, of course), which made it easier for people to get started and to stay with cellular service - which means more revenue for the carrier.

And, so, today, the only company that really provides direct support for its smartphones is Apple, with their chain of Apple Stores. All of the other manufacturers (and still many if not most Apple users) still rely on their carriers for phone support. Most manufacturers have little if any retail-level support for their hardware, and direct you to a carrier or another retailer for support.

Until that support model changes, you aren't likely to see a mass change from US consumers buying from the carriers to buying unlocked phones directly from a retailer - not to mention the carriers will finance that purchase for you too.

Carrier device sales aren't going anywhere, as much as the carriers would love to dump that business on someone else now that they've saturated the market and don't need to be retailers to ensure growth. Given the unique landscape of the US cellular market, that's a wheel that's only going to turn very slowly.