[kbz1960]

He could have solved the app problem on BB10. That's not insurmountable. But, it would have meant spending money instead of hoarding it. It would have meant doubling or tripping the staff in Ottawa at QNX and BlackBerry Sweden instead of halving the staff in Ottawa and outright closing BlackBerry Sweden (TAT). It would have meant putting pressure on automotive OEM's to use BlackBerry 10 as a whole instead of just QNX as middleware. If they said no, then it would have meant stepping up and directly competing with automotive OEMs by offering a complete package based on BlackBerry 10. It would have taken a strong effort to make BlackBerry 10 strong everywhere that QNX is strong and needs a UI. If instead of Ford using their own App Platform with Sync 3 they had to develop apps with Cascades, there would be a Netflix app, a Pandora app, a Tidal app, an Air BNB app, and all the navigation and social apps that consumers want in BlackBerry World because there is an incentive for these app publishers to make apps that work in cars. More app selection equals more sales and more sales equals more developer interest which in turn equals more apps. It would have had to have been a planned snowball effect. Universal apps is exactly the strategy that Microsoft and Apple are using and it could have worked for BlackBerry as well. But they didn't try it.

At the same time, they should have nurtured and grown the services offered in BlackBerry World rather then strip them all out and say, consumer stuff is what we have the Amazon App Store for. The Amazon deal was absolutely, without doubt, one of the worst business decisions ever made in the history of humanity. It never should have happened or even been considered. It was the first sign that BlackBerry sent out publicly that they did not think BlackBerry 10 could work as a Platform. It irreparably damaged developer relations, it showed a lack of confidence in their own product, and stripping out the native services in BlackBerry World when there were no alternatives from Amazon pissed off customers.

Basically, John Chen managed the hardware business and BlackBerry 10 as poorly as a 5th grader who's only experience was running a lemonade stand in their front yard last summer would have.

He had no vision or plan for it. He sabotaged it from pretty much his first day on the job and now he's ready to call it quits. But perhaps a wind down of the devices business was what the board hired him for? Seems that way.

John Chen is not a turn around expert. He hasn't turned anything around at BlackBerry that any other CEO couldn't have done. He's literally buying the MDM customers he needs to meet his goal from Good. He's a cost reduction expert. He's slashed costs and hoards the cash pile. He will be the death of BlackBerry Handsets and will burn through that $3 billion cash reserve to try and grow the licensing business.

Pffft

[oilgeo10]

Unless Chen realizes the mistake with the name and BlackBerry changes it, this android phone likely won't have much chance to be successful. Just another android phone with a stupid name isn't going to do anything for the company. Hopefully it will have the BlackBerry Hub to distinguish it from the other droids out there.

I will be keeping my Z30 until the battery no longer charges. Then the replacement will probably be a Windows phone, the next best interface to BB10 imo. I have had the MS Surface tablet / notebook for a few months now, it's one of the best kept secrets out there, just a great device.

Posted via CB10

[donnation]

Unless Chen realizes the mistake with the name and BlackBerry changes it, this android phone likely won't have much chance to be successful. Just another android phone with a stupid name isn't going to do anything for the company. Hopefully it will have the BlackBerry Hub to distinguish it from the other droids out there.

I will be keeping my Z30 until the battery no longer charges. Then the replacement will probably be a Windows phone, the next best interface to BB10 imo. I have had the MS Surface tablet / notebook for a few months now, it's one of the best kept secrets out there, just a great device.

Posted via CB10

While I agree that the name is stupid in the end I don't think that's really going to be a deterrent to whether or not someone buys one.

[The_Viking]

It's all about MARKETING....


Posted via CB10

This!

[Emaderton3]

It's all about MARKETING....


Posted via CB10

Well, the Super Bowl is only months away!

Posted via CB10

[Troy Tiscareno]

He could have solved the app problem on BB10. That's not insurmountable. But, it would have meant spending money instead of hoarding it. It would have meant doubling or tripping the staff in Ottawa at QNX and BlackBerry Sweden instead of halving the staff in Ottawa and outright closing BlackBerry Sweden (TAT).

And what would that have accomplished? A few more internal apps? A few more BB-built apps from companies with public APIs? What about the hundreds of thousands of apps with no public API? How would more BB employees have solved that problem? (Hint: it wouldn't, and BB would get sued if it tried to reverse-engineer those apps.) Most of this post is predicated on the idea that BB could write apps for other companies, but unless those companies publish a public API, then it would be illegal for BB to do so. And while companies might not sue some guy working at home making an illegal SnapChat app, they'd hit BB with a Cease & Desist almost instantly, and take them to court (and win!) if they didn't immediately comply, making all of the work to develop the app a huge waste of time and money.

You don't seem to realize that NETFLIX, not BB or "the Internet" is the owner of the Netflix app, and they can do what they like with it, and decide not to allow other companies to make apps, or not let users of third-party apps access their service. Same with SnapChat, or Instagram, or Uber, or whatever.

The only solution to apps is to make your platform attractive enough to developers that they'll CHOSE to make apps for it. Plenty of people, including me, could see that by 2011-2012 that Apple and Google had such a headstart that no one else would stand much of a chance of catching up. Even Microsoft, who has been spending several billion dollars a year for the last several years, hasn't been able to get anywhere close to the Big 2 (though they're slowly making progress, and are far ahead of BB10).

It's the same reason why Tizen, Jolla, FireFox, and even Ubuntu really have no shot in the mobile market (well, Ubuntu might once we have mobile devices that can run desktop apps - because the desktop apps are already there).

It would have meant putting pressure on automotive OEM's to use BlackBerry 10 as a whole instead of just QNX as middleware. If they said no, then it would have meant stepping up and directly competing with automotive OEMs by offering a complete package based on BlackBerry 10. It would have taken a strong effort to make BlackBerry 10 strong everywhere that QNX is strong and needs a UI.

You obviously don't realize that QNX has had it's own car UI as an available option for a decade (long before BB bought them), but that car manufacturers weren't interested, because they wanted to make their own, unique interface that THEY controlled. BB was never in any position to "pressure" the car companies into doing anything - while QNX is a great choice for auto middleware, it is far from the only choice, and if BB started to be a problem for the car companies, QNX could be dropped and replaced and most people would have no clue it happened.

And if you think that BB10 was going to be used for cars, you are just delusional.

This is really just another "Other companies should do things to help BB because it would be good for BB (even if it goes against the interests of those other companies)!" post that we've seen here a thousand times.

[Emaderton3]

And what would that have accomplished? A few more internal apps? A few more BB-built apps from companies with public APIs? What about the hundreds of thousands of apps with no public API? How would more BB employees have solved that problem? (Hint: it wouldn't, and BB would get sued if it tried to reverse-engineer those apps.) Most of this post is predicated on the idea that BB could write apps for other companies, but unless those companies publish a public API, then it would be illegal for BB to do so. And while companies might not sue some guy working at home making an illegal SnapChat app, they'd hit BB with a Cease & Desist almost instantly, and take them to court (and win!) if they didn't immediately comply, making all of the work to develop the app a huge waste of time and money.

You don't seem to realize that NETFLIX, not BB or "the Internet" is the owner of the Netflix app, and they can do what they like with it, and decide not to allow other companies to make apps, or not let users of third-party apps access their service. Same with SnapChat, or Instagram, or Uber, or whatever.

The only solution to apps is to make your platform attractive enough to developers that they'll CHOSE to make apps for it. Plenty of people, including me, could see that by 2011-2012 that Apple and Google had such a headstart that no one else would stand much of a chance of catching up. Even Microsoft, who has been spending several billion dollars a year for the last several years, hasn't been able to get anywhere close to the Big 2 (though they're slowly making progress, and are far ahead of BB10).

It's the same reason why Tizen, Jolla, FireFox, and even Ubuntu really have no shot in the mobile market (well, Ubuntu might once we have mobile devices that can run desktop apps - because the desktop apps are already there).



You obviously don't realize that QNX has had it's own car UI as an available option for a decade (long before BB bought them), but that car manufacturers weren't interested, because they wanted to make their own, unique interface that THEY controlled. BB was never in any position to "pressure" the car companies into doing anything - while QNX is a great choice for auto middleware, it is far from the only choice, and if BB started to be a problem for the car companies, QNX could be dropped and replaced and most people would have no clue it happened.

And if you think that BB10 was going to be used for cars, you are just delusional.

This is really just another "Other companies should do things to help BB because it would be good for BB (even if it goes against the interests of those other companies)!" post that we've seen here a thousand times.

Yeah, it would be like Microsoft saying that you can only sync with their Outlook servers with Windows phones. Disaster.

Posted via CB10

[thurask]

All this thread is missing is the "durr Chen is automatically bad for business" guy.

[Tre Lawrence]

No matter what he tried with BB10 phones they were never going to sell anymore than they do now. The only people that wanted them are the faithful fans or corporations that need BES and don't allow apps anyway.

I happen to agree.

[Tre Lawrence]

... or the first time he can try to sell without a huge caveat to disclose.

For what's it worth though, he doesn't seem to really be into any device his company has offered. He's probably wanted to shut the device business down since the day he stepped in. I imagine he's just going through the options (Amazon, Green light the Passport, push the Classic, try low end Leap, now try with Android) , so that at the end of the day, he can shut it down without being blamed (mostly internally I imagine) for 'not trying'.

Posted via CB10

Feels like that to me.

Based on his history, and all the board-approved moves, I tend to believe the endgame had been in place for a very long time.

[skibnik]

If they had released an all touch flagship things would be different. Not much but thru would have been different.

Posted via CB10

Like I have said in past threads Blackberry could have released a device with Star Trek technology and it still wouldn't have sold because of the app gap, people need to pull their heads out of the sand already!

[Tre Lawrence]

Like I have said in past threads Blackberry could have released a device with Star Trek technology and it still wouldn't have sold because of the app gap, people need to pull their heads out of the sand already!

Agreed.

There will always be a faction that will wonder how BB10, powered by the almighty QNX, was betrayed into nothingness.

It's 2015, and we STILL have folks who tell people to "use the browser."

[silversmith75]

Since Chen took over the hardware has taken a back seat. The passport was already in development before he took over. So he can't claim that so. What the classic? He would have done better if he would have released a q20. With a larger screen capacitive keyboard like the passport. And upgraded spec. Every other devise is a block of plastic not worth the time. Yet every other manufacturer released new nicer phones with better spec. A monkey could figure that out. The app gap is a load the people keep regurgitating with 10.2 and snap and cobalts patch there really isn't much of an app gap. It's the fact they have released sub pat phones.

Posted via CB10

[Emaderton3]

Since Chen took over the hardware has taken a back seat. The passport was already in development before he took over. So he can't claim that so. What the classic? He would have done better if he would have released a q20. With a larger screen capacitive keyboard like the passport. And upgraded spec. Every other devise is a block of plastic not worth the time. Yet every other manufacturer released new nicer phones with better spec. A monkey could figure that out. The app gap is a load the people keep regurgitating with 10.2 and snap and cobalts patch there really isn't much of an app gap. It's the fact they have released sub pat phones.

Posted via CB10

The average user is not going to bother with snap and patching. They just want their phone to work.

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

The average user is not going to bother with snap and patching. They just want their phone to work.

Posted via CB10

I don't know that some folks will ever get this.

Some Android users used to be equally flabbergasted as to why rooting was not a mainstream option way back when.

[leglace1]

I agree with a lot you are saying but this isn't the first time Chen has tried to sell a phone. That's giving him way to mug of a pass. He tried to sell the Passport, Leap, and Classic, and failed hard. This isn't "Now Chen is finally running the ship." It's his last ditch effort to make an impact in handset sales.

I read this all the time and I can't help but think they tried to fail. They did not advertise nor were they interested in consumers. Nobody who invests a lot into development of a product & intentionally chooses to exclude the largest consumer group and not let the public know about their devices being in existence as an intelligent businessman unless they wanted it to fail as a way to justify a different direction.

Posted via CB10

[Emaderton3]

I don't know that some folks will ever get this.

Some Android users used to be equally flabbergasted as to why rooting was not a mainstream option way back when.

Yeah, many people aren't going to investigate alternatives if they are not baked into or a normal function of the OS. Many people I talk to say "why bother" when they can buy a phone that has the personal and professional apps they need without having to seek out extensive advice online. In fact, regardless of OS, I don't know one person that hangs out on Mobile Nations or anything similar.

Posted via CB10

[Troy Tiscareno]

I read this all the time and I can't help but think they tried to fail. They did not advertise nor were they interested in consumers. Nobody who invests a lot into development of a product & intentionally chooses to exclude the largest consumer group and not let the public know about their devices being in existence as an intelligent businessman unless they wanted it to fail as a way to justify a different direction.

Chen knew, before he took the job, that BB10 wasn't a product he could sell. While hobbyists are okay with sideloading, patching, alternative app stores, hunting down working APKs, etc., that's simply not something you can sell to the general public - and BB World is also not something you could sell to the general public. Essentially, without a robust, native app store where you can find any app you need, tap Install, and know for sure that it was going to work (and continue to work after the next update), you simply don't have a product you can sell to the general market - it's not competitive in a market when the Top 3 players (or, at least the Top 2) have exactly that functionality. That's not even mentioning BB's lack of services and lack of compatible 3rd-party hardware (wearables, for example).

The money Chen would have spent on advertising would not (based on his estimates, we can assume) have been offset by a large enough increase in profits, based on projected sales, to make it worth doing - the demand for an OS with few apps, fewer services, and virtually no 3rd-Party hardware support is just far too small.

Again, no one is saying that BB10, the OS, is bad - it isn't. It just isn't relevant or competitive because it's only one component of an entire ecosystem, and BB's ecosystem is almost non-existent beyond the OS. The battle for OSs was over in 2010 - the battle since then has been about ecosystems, and when you look at it that way, it's very easy to see why BB10 is a failed product in the marketplace. And there's no use throwing good money after bad by paying to advertise it - you'd mostly end up getting people into carrier stores only to have the carrier talk them into something else anyway.

[crackberry_geek]

He could have solved the app problem on BB10. That's not insurmountable. But, it would have meant spending money instead of hoarding it. It would have meant doubling or tripping the staff in Ottawa at QNX and BlackBerry Sweden instead of halving the staff in Ottawa and outright closing BlackBerry Sweden (TAT). It would have meant putting pressure on automotive OEM's to use BlackBerry 10 as a whole instead of just QNX as middleware. If they said no, then it would have meant stepping up and directly competing with automotive OEMs by offering a complete package based on BlackBerry 10. It would have taken a strong effort to make BlackBerry 10 strong everywhere that QNX is strong and needs a UI. If instead of Ford using their own App Platform with Sync 3 they had to develop apps with Cascades, there would be a Netflix app, a Pandora app, a Tidal app, an Air BNB app, and all the navigation and social apps that consumers want in BlackBerry World because there is an incentive for these app publishers to make apps that work in cars. More app selection equals more sales and more sales equals more developer interest which in turn equals more apps. It would have had to have been a planned snowball effect. Universal apps is exactly the strategy that Microsoft and Apple are using and it could have worked for BlackBerry as well. But they didn't try it.

At the same time, they should have nurtured and grown the services offered in BlackBerry World rather then strip them all out and say, consumer stuff is what we have the Amazon App Store for. The Amazon deal was absolutely, without doubt, one of the worst business decisions ever made in the history of humanity. It never should have happened or even been considered. It was the first sign that BlackBerry sent out publicly that they did not think BlackBerry 10 could work as a Platform. It irreparably damaged developer relations, it showed a lack of confidence in their own product, and stripping out the native services in BlackBerry World when there were no alternatives from Amazon pissed off customers.

Basically, John Chen managed the hardware business and BlackBerry 10 as poorly as a 5th grader who's only experience was running a lemonade stand in their front yard last summer would have.

He had no vision or plan for it. He sabotaged it from pretty much his first day on the job and now he's ready to call it quits. But perhaps a wind down of the devices business was what the board hired him for? Seems that way.

John Chen is not a turn around expert. He hasn't turned anything around at BlackBerry that any other CEO couldn't have done. He's literally buying the MDM customers he needs to meet his goal from Good. He's a cost reduction expert. He's slashed costs and hoards the cash pile. He will be the death of BlackBerry Handsets and will burn through that $3 billion cash reserve to try and grow the licensing business.

Spot-freakin-on!!

Chen is the biggest loser of a CEO in a long while!

Posted via CB10

[Tre Lawrence]

Chen knew, before he took the job, that BB10 wasn't a product he could sell. While hobbyists are okay with sideloading, patching, alternative app stores, hunting down working APKs, etc., that's simply not something you can sell to the general public - and BB World is also not something you could sell to the general public. Essentially, without a robust, native app store where you can find any app you need, tap Install, and know for sure that it was going to work (and continue to work after the next update), you simply don't have a product you can sell to the general market - it's not competitive in a market when the Top 3 players (or, at least the Top 2) have exactly that functionality. That's not even mentioning BB's lack of services and lack of compatible 3rd-party hardware (wearables, for example).

The money Chen would have spent on advertising would not (based on his estimates, we can assume) have been offset by a large enough increase in profits, based on projected sales, to make it worth doing - the demand for an OS with few apps, fewer services, and virtually no 3rd-Party hardware support is just far too small.

Again, no one is saying that BB10, the OS, is bad - it isn't. It just isn't relevant or competitive because it's only one component of an entire ecosystem, and BB's ecosystem is almost non-existent beyond the OS. The battle for OSs was over in 2010 - the battle since then has been about ecosystems, and when you look at it that way, it's very easy to see why BB10 is a failed product in the marketplace. And there's no use throwing good money after bad by paying to advertise it - you'd mostly end up getting people into carrier stores only to have the carrier talk them into something else anyway.

Yes.

Why doesn't Samsung throw billions in advertising bada, Tizen or even WP? What did throwing cash at the Fire Phone do?

Advertising isn't the guaranteed path to success some folks think it is. BBRY figured this a while back.

[ubizmo]

He recently said that there is a timeline for devices and that if BlackBerry doesn't make money with them, he will stop making them. He has said other things like that over the past two years. This kind of statement puts a cloud over the entire business.

Posted via CB10

That's for sure. Such statements are every bit as toxic as the "for sale" sign


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[jack1059]

Look at what Chen did a bit more critically, and what BlackBerry did. BlackBerry went hard on z10 even though it was half baked and got released too early. They buggered up the development and launch basically. Then z30, which was a top notch device, they virtually ignored. Soft launches for z3 and leap. Which is okay as they were entry level devices. Then they went hard on classic and passport. Classic was never going to sell volumes as keyboards are 'uncool' and passport while a great funky design was niche as well. In my opinion Chens big failing was to not launch a full touchscreen top tier bb10 phone, with a decent camera. Say a z30 successor and push that hard. Would have liked to have seen what that would have done with full BlackBerry advertising.

Really it's all water under the bridge now that they've chosen to go android. Can't blame them, but looking back it's hard not to see the mis steps and wish for more. Though now looking at Chens actions it seems he was never really committed to bb10. All devices released under him were inherited. He never released a new bb10 device.

Posted via CB10

[BerrySoul]

LOL. Yeah right.. come on Chen give me the BB10 Priv!!!

  

[Prem WatsApp]

LOL. Yeah right.. come on Chen give me the BB10 Priv!!!

  

I'll sign up for another one... :-)

�   Ahoy, Privateers...! :-)   �

[IndianTiwari]

If they had released an all touch flagship things would be different. Not much but thru would have been different.

Posted via CB10

Agree with you . If z30 successor was launched today things would have been very different .