1. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I think many here forget that most people's first smartphone... was an all touch. That's all they have known. BlackBerry was king back when dumb phones were what most people had. I know many then wanted a smartphone, but they just couldn't justify it. Apple changed all that.

    The big thing with OEM's right now is how to lose the bezels on phone, to make the screen edge to edge - top to bottom and side to side (or every wrap around the edges) and to push the limits on screen size... and here is BlackBerry going to release a phone that uses a good size bezel on the top and 1/4 of the space for a keyboard.....
    I had used a PKB since 2004. Every time I picked up a demo model of a VKB in the store, I could not type well at all. Since moving over to a Z10 in 2013 , the reverse is true. Recently, I tried out my 9900 and I barely type at all. I had lost my PKB muscle memory.

    The trick for BlackBerry Mobile is whether they can convert current BlackBerry PKB owners. I do not understand PKB - Android phobia. Either you NEED a PKB or you do not.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 02-21-17 at 11:36 AM.
    02-21-17 11:25 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Ha ha...yes, but what do you see at the top of the page at blackberrymobile.com?

    BlackBerry™
    The interesting page is TCL's TCL 通讯CEO: 我们会一直尊重黑莓的DNA - 博客 - TCL通讯(中国)

    For the BlackBerry, Alcatel two brands, Nicolas ZIBELL said that the two brands have different positioning and development strategies. Alcatel will focus on the young crowd, positioning is the mass consumption, aimed at the latest technology spread to more users. For the BlackBerry, the audience is focused on the mature population and business users, tailored for their unique needs. In Alcatel, the BlackBerry's publicity, will not be imposed on the elements of the TCL brand, will maintain the unique personality of each brand.
    I doubt TCL is going to do what some here expect them to do.... Sounds more like they have the same "focus" that BlackBerry had.


    And it doesn't sound like TCL is giving up on some of the other markets that BlackBerry licensed too....

    Because the five countries have other partners BlackBerry, but TCL said that will take other ways to enter these emerging markets, such as the local authorized dealers and cooperation.
    Neither BB Merah Putih nor Optiemus Infracom are hardware manufactures... so there is a good chance that one or both might end up licensing "some" products made by TCL for sale in their markets also.
    02-21-17 11:43 AM
  3. anon(9607753)'s Avatar
    Interesting in what sense...care to elaborate?
    02-21-17 11:56 AM
  4. stlabrat's Avatar
    hmm, i guess i am aged like wine as all the other CB. (matured)... hopefully, not vinegar... besides, since merc still "inhouse design". so it is BB, not BB-mobile... I'll wait to see BB mobile come out their own debuts...
    02-21-17 03:29 PM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Interesting in what sense...care to elaborate?
    I think he did elaborate on what he found interesting.
    02-21-17 04:03 PM
  6. anon(9607753)'s Avatar
    I think he did elaborate on what he found interesting.
    Hardy har har! Questions re-phrased into statements. Sooooo entertaining.
    02-21-17 05:54 PM
  7. sorinv's Avatar
    That's not selling into your userbase, that's selling into the most fanatical portion of your base. Those people who are willing to take a bare minimum in updates when other choices in the market are offering much higher level of support. That takes a special type of brand commitment that only a few users will make.



    [Emphasis mine]. I think that's the best Chen could do given the situation. What you are suggesting is that they should have made even more BB10 phones.

    The ASP of the BB10 phones must be quite low right now. Even if you assume positive gross margin, you have a different problem. What happens if Chen had ordered 500,000 additional BB10 phones and only managed to sell half? Even if you make a small gross margin on the 250k you sell, you have to write off the other 250k. That won't make shareholders very happy.
    He would have definitely sold 500k more passports and classics since 2015 when the Priv was launced if the Priv had not been launched at all.

    He did not have to order all 500K at a time. He could have done it gradually to minimize the risk.

    All I am saying is that android BlackBerry was a waste and despite what most here say, if he didn't have bb10 phones to sell for the past two years, BlackBerry would have folded by now because the android revenue and software revenue is not (yet?) higher than that brought in by bb10 phones.

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-17 09:54 PM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    He would have definitely sold 500k more passports and classics since 2015 when the Priv was launced if the Priv had not been launched at all.

    He did not have to order all 500K at a time. He could have done it gradually to minimize the risk.
    There isn't a supplier on the planet who will sell them parts or assembly "gradually". That's not how the business works anymore. Tim Cook changed that forever back when he was COO. Suppliers expect (and get) huge commitments up front. This is an important reason why BB isn't in the hardware business anymore. It's too risky when you can't be sure of selling, and if you really put money into ads to reduce the inventory risk then the whole thing becomes way too expensive at this small scale. Rock, hard place.

    All I am saying is that android BlackBerry was a waste and despite what most here say, if he didn't have bb10 phones to sell for the past two years, BlackBerry would have folded by now because the android revenue and software revenue is not (yet?) higher than that brought in by bb10 phones.
    The margin on software is enormous compared to phones. SAF has done more to keep BB alive than BB10 phone sales. I would agree, though, that investor panic would have been worse if he had just dropped BB10 sales, which is why he chose to milk BB10 for as long as he could instead.

    Then I think it got to the point that Android became a cheaper, less risky way to burn down the remaining purchase commitments. So they did that.
    02-21-17 10:10 PM
  9. BlackBerryPassport's Avatar
    He would have definitely sold 500k more passports and classics since 2015 when the Priv was launced if the Priv had not been launched at all.

    He did not have to order all 500K at a time. He could have done it gradually to minimize the risk.

    All I am saying is that android BlackBerry was a waste and despite what most here say, if he didn't have bb10 phones to sell for the past two years, BlackBerry would have folded by now because the android revenue and software revenue is not (yet?) higher than that brought in by bb10 phones.

    Posted via CB10
    Well said.
    Their Android Venture just failed miserably, Priv failed to sees the market, and the same goes with Dtek50 /60.

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-17 11:19 PM
  10. early2bed's Avatar
    There isn't a supplier on the planet who will sell them parts or assembly "gradually". That's not how the business works anymore. Tim Cook changed that forever back when he was COO. Suppliers expect (and get) huge commitments up front. This is an important reason why BB isn't in the hardware business anymore. It's too risky when you can't be sure of selling, and if you really put money into ads to reduce the inventory risk then the whole thing becomes way too expensive at this small scale. Rock, hard place.
    Wait, do you mean that there's no big warehouse in China with all of the Passport components that takes orders in 25K increments of and delivers them in 30 days until you decide you don't need any more? LOL. Tim Cook called these manufacturers years ago and told them that, not only was he going to buy all of their capacity for the next several years but that Apple would finance the factories necessary to make them 10 times bigger without ever needing to find another customer. I wonder what kind of concessions you can get from suppliers when you completely minimize their risk by buying everything they can make for years to come.
    DrBoomBotz and app_Developer like this.
    02-22-17 02:26 AM
  11. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    He would have definitely sold 500k more passports and classics since 2015 when the Priv was launced if the Priv had not been launched at all.

    He did not have to order all 500K at a time. He could have done it gradually to minimize the risk.

    All I am saying is that android BlackBerry was a waste and despite what most here say, if he didn't have bb10 phones to sell for the past two years, BlackBerry would have folded by now because the android revenue and software revenue is not (yet?) higher than that brought in by bb10 phones.
    We could take that back a step. Remember when BB10 received the same criticism? That legacy BBOS was selling more than it years after it (BB10) was introduced? Thus, with your point, BB10 was a waste of time too... till relatively recently.

    Looking at the company's 10 year history, BB10 was the real red maker from a sales standpoint.
    02-22-17 03:23 AM
  12. Linto988's Avatar
    I've read somewhere about someone saying something about BlackBerry hitting their target sales with the DTEKs. How on earth is that possible, I've no idea. I'll get a link if I find the quote.

    I'm on the same page here, wondering what TCL sees in BlackBerry. However, TCL is not a small company so I guess they've done their homework regarding this partnership. Maybe they think they can do much better if they're the ones manufacturing and marketing the devices. The way I see it, they're already doing 100 times better than BlackBerry even before they sell their first BB. The way they're playing the anticipation and teasing game with the Merc and all. We will definitely see a better pricing and less manufacturing problems. We've already seen a much better pricing with the DTEK60. I think $500 for it is quite good within the sea of high range android phones out there.

    We will see how it goes, but no matter what, I'll bet all my money that TCL will do much better with the BlackBerry name than BlackBerry themselves.

    PS. I've used a lot of "Much Better" and "Better" in this post.
    True

    Posted via CB10
    02-22-17 07:21 AM
  13. anon(9607753)'s Avatar
    The correct transition was BBOS --> Android. That was the real missed opportunity...to tune of billions of dollars wasted on the BB10 dead end.
    02-22-17 08:03 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    The correct transition was BBOS --> Android. That was the real missed opportunity...to tune of billions of dollars wasted on the BB10 dead end.
    That may be true. However the biggest hurdle there was that Android in 2012 would have been almost impossible to secure even a little.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    02-22-17 08:25 AM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    The correct transition was BBOS --> Android. That was the real missed opportunity...to tune of billions of dollars wasted on the BB10 dead end.
    1) Back in 2010 (when BlackBerry finally figured out they needed a new OS), the idea was they needed their own ecosystem. Only ideas being thrown out back then were if they used Amazon as a model.... And we see how well Amazon's ecosystem is being supported these days.

    2) As conite pointed out... Android and the hardware just weren't where BlackBerry could use them back in 2013. Qualcomm has added keys to the chipset and Google has made many advancements in Android security over the last seven years.

    3) Still have to prove that BlackBerry can make money with Android..... But as a manufacture, BlackBerry never had a chance competing in the Android market. They were too slow to get products to market and too small with too much overhead to be competitive. We will see in the coming years if they can do anything as a licensee... but it's not going to be $ billions.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-22-17 08:48 AM
  16. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    1) Back in 2010 (when BlackBerry finally figured out they needed a new OS), the idea was they needed their own ecosystem. Only ideas being thrown out back then were if they used Amazon as a model.... And we see how well Amazon's ecosystem is being supported these days.

    2) As conite pointed out... Android and the hardware just weren't where BlackBerry could use them back in 2013. Qualcomm has added keys to the chipset and Google has made many advancements in Android security over the last seven years.

    3) Still have to prove that BlackBerry can make money with Android..... But as a manufacture, BlackBerry never had a chance competing in the Android market. They were too slow to get products to market and too small with too much overhead to be competitive. We will see in the coming years if they can do anything as a licensee... but it's not going to be $ billions.
    Good points.

    Unrelated: seems like Amazon is pivoting very well with IoT and such. Alexa is becoming quite the mobile companion.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-22-17 09:21 AM
  17. early2bed's Avatar
    That may be true. However the biggest hurdle there was that Android in 2012 would have been almost impossible to secure even a little.
    Does BlackBerry secure Android because it needs securing or because security is what BlackBerry does? Outside of these CrackBerry walls, I wonder how much value customers place on BlackBerry security dust.
    02-22-17 09:25 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Does BlackBerry secure Android because it needs securing or because security is what BlackBerry does? Outside of these CrackBerry walls, I wonder how much value customers place on BlackBerry security dust.
    That's BlackBerry's only differentiating feature. Otherwise they have nothing to say in the device software space.

    It may or may not be enough, but it's all they have.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-22-17 09:29 AM
  19. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Good points.

    Unrelated: seems like Amazon is pivoting very well with IoT and such. Alexa is becoming quite the mobile companion.
    Some say that AI will be the key to most future interactions.... (the OS might mean far less than it does today) Really comes down to who can get one to market that really works well. Right now we are very early in development of these tools. But Amazon does seem to have a head start, and CES showed that 3rd parties were definitely backing Amazon.
    02-22-17 09:31 AM
  20. anon(9607753)'s Avatar
    1) Back in 2010 (when BlackBerry finally figured out they needed a new OS), the idea was they needed their own ecosystem. Only ideas being thrown out back then were if they used Amazon as a model.... And we see how well Amazon's ecosystem is being supported these days.

    2) As conite pointed out... Android and the hardware just weren't where BlackBerry could use them back in 2013. Qualcomm has added keys to the chipset and Google has made many advancements in Android security over the last seven years.

    3) Still have to prove that BlackBerry can make money with Android..... But as a manufacture, BlackBerry never had a chance competing in the Android market. They were too slow to get products to market and too small with too much overhead to be competitive. We will see in the coming years if they can do anything as a licensee... but it's not going to be $ billions.
    Once again, so much to disagree with here.

    It would have been a much different BlackBerry that went with Android instead of its own OS. It would not have made the same mistakes. In fact, turn the clock back a few years prior and they could have bought Android instead of QNX and be running 80% of phones instead of 80% of cars. Not only could they have 'competed' in the Android space, they could have OWNED it. Lol.
    02-22-17 10:51 AM
  21. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Once again, so much to disagree with here.

    It would have been a much different BlackBerry that went with Android instead of its own OS. It would not have made the same mistakes. In fact, turn the clock back a few years prior and they could have bought Android instead of QNX and be running 80% of phones instead of 80% of cars. Not only could they have 'competed' in the Android space, they could have OWNED it. Lol.
    Back when Google bought Android ($50 Million) in 2005.... BlackBerry had no clue that BBOS was running out of time, by the time BlackBerry woke up and bought QNX in 2010, Android wasn't for sale. Because Android phones were already outselling BlackBerry by about 10 to 1.

    I do think that 2005 was when BlackBerry should have at least been looking at how to moved away from JAVA.... If BB10 had launched three years later in 2008, things might have been different.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-22-17 11:27 AM
  22. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Once again, so much to disagree with here.

    It would have been a much different BlackBerry that went with Android instead of its own OS. It would not have made the same mistakes. In fact, turn the clock back a few years prior and they could have bought Android instead of QNX and be running 80% of phones instead of 80% of cars. Not only could they have 'competed' in the Android space, they could have OWNED it. Lol.
    Google bought Android in July 2005. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androi...rating_system)
    BlackBerry acquiring Android before this date and successfully executing a radical course correction is alternate universe stuff.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    02-22-17 11:38 AM
  23. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Once again, so much to disagree with here.

    It would have been a much different BlackBerry that went with Android instead of its own OS. It would not have made the same mistakes. In fact, turn the clock back a few years prior and they could have bought Android instead of QNX and be running 80% of phones instead of 80% of cars. Not only could they have 'competed' in the Android space, they could have OWNED it. Lol.
    Do you mean buying the fledgling OS before Google?
    02-22-17 12:10 PM
  24. anon(9607753)'s Avatar
    Google bought Android in July 2005. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androi...rating_system)
    BlackBerry acquiring Android before this date and successfully executing a radical course correction is alternate universe stuff.
    The discussion is speculation on what might have been done differently. What is your point?
    02-22-17 12:52 PM
  25. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    The discussion is speculation on what might have been done differently. What is your point?
    My point is the level of speculation and uncertainty goes up substantially when you rewind the universe that far.
    Which is fine and I will play along.

    In 2005 TSE:BB was ~$100.00 and the board AFAIK was still firmly behind Jim and Mike.
    They had a big dysfunctional company that executed like an even bigger more dysfunctional company.
    Going full speed ahead with a new platform while BBOS was still a big success might have caused some serious sibling rivalry.
    Pretty sure their would also have been great pressure to include BIS in this new platform.
    Remember that Google was making a BlackBerry clone until they got wind of what Apple was working on.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    02-22-17 01:10 PM
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