[app_Developer]

Sure, but if phones are losing them money as you say, why do they keep selling them?

Purchase commitments. Now that those are mostly behind them, they're just selling what's left of their inventory and they're done with hardware. This is a very good thing for investors.

It doesn't add up. The losses were written off a long time ago, at least for bb10. Every bb10 phone they sell keeps them alive a bit longer until they die as a software company, or get bought for a pittance.

Why would they die as a software company? There's nothing in the financials to support that assertion, unless software demand caves. Have you seen any sign of that?

[sorinv]

Purchase commitments. Now that those are mostly behind them, they're just selling what's left of their inventory and they're done with hardware. This is a very good thing for investors.



Why would they die as a software company? There's nothing in the financials to support that assertion, unless software demand caves. Have you seen any sign of that?

Have you seen any sign of revival? Any revolutionary product that nobody else has or competes with?

Maybe QNX in cars could have been one but it hasn't become a big revenue source in the last three years and it was still M. Lazaridis' play, not Chen's.

All we have seen in the past three years has been a retreat in all areas, including enterprise software.

None of the motivations Chen gave for going android have materialized.
There were no business customers that asked for BlackBerry android phones. There are fewer still who ask for android phones designed and developed in China. All his cellphone stories are just that: fairy tales.

Every decision he has made in the last three years in terms of launching new products has bombed or not materialized.

Yes, he has reduced losses, although most of the losses were written off before he joined, but he has reduced revenue even more dramatically and he has had no profit to show since October 2013 when he joined.
Revenues are smaller and smaller every quarter.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

Have you seen any sign of revival? Any revolutionary product that nobody else has or competes with?

Maybe QNX in cars could have been one but it hasn't become a big revenue source in the last three years and it was still M. Lazaridis' play, not Chen's.

All we have seen in the past three years has been a retreat in all areas, including enterprise software.

None of the motivations Chen gave for going android have materialized.
There were no business customers that asked for BlackBerry android phones. There are fewer still who ask for android phones designed and developed in China. All his cellphone stories are just that: fairy tales.

Every decision he has made in the last three years in terms of launching new products has bombed or not materialized.

Yes, he has reduced losses, although most of the losses were written off before he joined, but he has reduced revenue even more dramatically and he has had no profit to show since October 2013 when he joined.
Revenues are smaller and smaller every quarter.

Posted via CB10

From the last set of financials:

Adjusted EBITDA of $37 million; positive for twelfth consecutive quarter.

We remain on track to deliver 30 percent growth in company total software and services revenues for the full fiscal year. We are raising our outlook on profitability for FY17. We now expect to achieve non-GAAP EPS profitability for the full year, up from a prior range of breakeven to a five cent loss.

80% of software revenue is recurring.

BlackBerry had over 3,000 enterprise customer orders in the quarter.

[anon(9607753)]

I think I already explained what the problem was with bb10 and why it failed: lack of revolutionary innovation compared to the iphone.

It's interesting how you peg this failure on BB10. The iPhone was a 'gift' to the consumer...at the time it was completely unnecessary extravagance (for a phone), and that's what made it brilliant. It just happened to be running iOS because well, that's what Apple had. BB10 on the other hand was engineered specifically for mobile devices. And Android, arguably the most fragmented and slow to evolve of the three, is by far the most widely used. If innovation is a factor in the commercial success of a mobile OS, I would certainly like to see someone explain how.

Android BlackBerry was an idiotic enterprise, period

Actually it is one of the few things BlackBerry has done with a smartphone OS in years that has even approached gaining the respect of the industry.

[AluminiumRims]

Have you seen any sign of revival? Any revolutionary product that nobody else has or competes with?

Maybe QNX in cars could have been one but it hasn't become a big revenue source in the last three years and it was still M. Lazaridis' play, not Chen's.

All we have seen in the past three years has been a retreat in all areas, including enterprise software.

None of the motivations Chen gave for going android have materialized.
There were no business customers that asked for BlackBerry android phones. There are fewer still who ask for android phones designed and developed in China. All his cellphone stories are just that: fairy tales.

Every decision he has made in the last three years in terms of launching new products has bombed or not materialized.

Yes, he has reduced losses, although most of the losses were written off before he joined, but he has reduced revenue even more dramatically and he has had no profit to show since October 2013 when he joined.
Revenues are smaller and smaller every quarter.

Posted via CB10

Going Android was just a distraction, the real goal was to kill BB10. Anyone with above seagull intelligence know that going Android is very difficult to become profitable. The Android market is highly competitive and selling Android phones for the price that Blackberry does without any significant advantages will of course fail and not sell in high numbers. We know today that the Blackberry Android phones actually sell worse than their BB10 phones and this despite being more available to consumers.

In any normal company, the CEO would have been fired by now. John Chen has absolutely no vision for the company other than kill BB10. This will go the same way Nokia with Stephen Elop. Despite killing the company the trojan horse CEO will remain until the end when the company is being sold.

[Soulstream]

It's interesting how you peg this failure on BB10. The iPhone was a 'gift' to the consumer...at the time it was completely unnecessary extravagance (for a phone), and that's what made it brilliant. It just happened to be running iOS because well, that's what Apple had. BB10 on the other hand was engineered specifically for mobile devices. And Android, arguably the most fragmented and slow to evolve of the three, is by far the most widely used. If innovation is a factor in the commercial success of a mobile OS, I would certainly like to see someone explain how.

Actually it is one of the few things BlackBerry has done with a smartphone OS in years that has even approached gaining the respect of the industry.

In 2007-2008 both Apple and Google (but especially Google) were throwing stuff at the wall to see what would stick in terms of smartphones. They were also limited by pretty primitive hardware. BB10 was build already knowing what a smartphone should and shouldn't do by learning from Apple/Google, but it also less hardware limitations.

If BB10 had launched in 2008 or 2010, it wouldn't have resembled the current iteration. It would have been a much bare-bones experience due to the limitations and experiences stated above.

I agree on fragmentation, but not on evolution. Android was a much more feature-full OS at launch than iOS. Sharing between apps was easier and better, so were notifications, so was multitasking and was (and still is) the king of customization. iOS vs Android was always a battle of stability (and polish) vs more features and customization. Android's evolution was not always about adding more features, but more about making all the features it had more polished.

[kvndoom]

Sure, but if phones are losing them money as you say, why do they keep selling them?

It doesn't add up. The losses were written off a long time ago, at least for bb10. Every bb10 phone they sell keeps them alive a bit longer until they die as a software company, or get bought for a pittance.

There is absolutely no hope in sight for a revival.

Posted via CB10

They're not selling phones anymore. They aren't manufacturing any phones anymore. They are licensing their Android flavor. Other companies are taking ALL the hardware risk. If future phones flop, BlackBerry doesn't write off a dime.

All they're 'selling' at this point is leftover stock. What do you suggest they do, bury all remaining unsold phones in the desert with the ET cartridges?

Blackberry Poptart SE - Cricket Wireless

[kvndoom]

Going Android was just a distraction, the real goal was to kill BB10. Anyone with above seagull intelligence know that going Android is very difficult to become profitable. The Android market is highly competitive and selling Android phones for the price that Blackberry does without any significant advantages will of course fail and not sell in high numbers. We know today that the Blackberry Android phones actually sell worse than their BB10 phones and this despite being more available to consumers.

In any normal company, the CEO would have been fired by now. John Chen has absolutely no vision for the company other than kill BB10. This will go the same way Nokia with Stephen Elop. Despite killing the company the trojan horse CEO will remain until the end when the company is being sold.

Yay more revisionist history. John Chen was brought in because of BB10's failure. If it had been such a rousing success, Thor would still be CEO. The board had decided to transition from phones, which is why they hired a software guy.

I'm sorry that your emotions get in the way of actual facts.

Blackberry Poptart SE - Cricket Wireless

[tre10]

get bought for a pittance.

Posted via CB10

I know this is hard for lots of people to accept but that right there which I quoted is probably the end game now. Chen's job was never to reclaim former glory or make a viable third platform for outliers. Shareholders first and foremost. The board could have fired him long ago if they didn't like what he was doing.

[stlabrat]

(1) Chen finally got his wish - a pure software company that he can utilize his strength. Will see what happened financially for BBRY.
(2) Roman is not build in one day. Apple iphone and app eco system was creep from Mac. Widget has been on the Mac of ages (if you count for the 18 month per generation semiconductor ... it is like Greek years not mention Roman). the art work of icon, the utilization of resources are improved all the years. Just like the BB10 OS, 10.3.2 was great, but not in 2011-2012... Time and commitment is the key, which BB in the mid of all the leadership transition, fight with investor, etc. causes the down fall faster than blink of eye... before you know it, software only strategy was take place and rest is history.
(3) read The Lost Signals, great read, but missing many of the key part... it is good movie script from 30,000 ft airplane view. but not down to the earth... the few character that more important than the CEO (low joes) were making the history for a dramatic turn, just like the chap in Intel, counting each wafer for Andy that resulted months of yield lost and delay of micro processor... (or the latest FBI-Apple fight with iphone took month, with a professor in UK can un-lock iphone in a flash). It is interesting to see the BB movie... but hopefully, the final chapter is not written yet.. so far, my stock still downed 80-90%.. sad.

[conite]

(1) Chen finally got his wish - a pure software company that he can utilize his strength. Will see what happened financially for BBRY.

It wasn't his wish, it was his job. He is a software guy who was hired by the board to pivot the company.

[stlabrat]

It wasn't his wish, it was his job. He is a software guy who was hired by the board to pivot the company.

he must be share with the vision in order to accept the job... what ever that vision is... CEO can select his/her job based on the board tasks... you don't do as work bee what you was told to do, you have your strategy how to turn the company around... in Chen's case, he must believe the software only company is the best bet. The board just there to make sure share holder interest (make money and see company grow for the future). https://resources.workable.com/ceo-job-description

[app_Developer]

he must be share with the vision in order to accept the job... what ever that vision is... CEO can select his/her job based on the board tasks... you don't do as work bee what you was told to do, you have your strategy how to turn the company around... in Chen's case, he must believe the software only company is the best bet. The board just there to make sure share holder interest (make money and see company grow for the future). https://resources.workable.com/ceo-job-description

Yes, Chen has said that the transition to software is the foundation of his strategy. He does think it's the best bet. I agree.

It's a business he understands. It's a business where BB has some advantages, including good marketshare in both automotive and enterprise device mgmt. These are things he can build on. He had no chance trying to build a business on top of their dying phone business where they had major structural challenges.

[stlabrat]

He had no chance trying to build a business on top of their dying phone business where they had major structural challenges.

not fully convinced that... as for him, true, because his software background. you never know if Jobs jump out of his grave what going to happen if he become a BB... the guy did have few gold fingers... but cross many bodies on his path.. (just go read the Pixar story). will see who is the next guy to bring something new and everyone crave (not necessary can afford... definitely not iphone initially, someone lost a kidney for that... who ever didn't rely on market study would be a good candidate).

[sorinv]

It's interesting how you peg this failure on BB10. The iPhone was a 'gift' to the consumer...at the time it was completely unnecessary extravagance (for a phone), and that's what made it brilliant. It just happened to be running iOS because well, that's what Apple had. BB10 on the other hand was engineered specifically for mobile devices. And Android, arguably the most fragmented and slow to evolve of the three, is by far the most widely used. If innovation is a factor in the commercial success of a mobile OS, I would certainly like to see someone explain how.

I am not pegging the failure of BlackBerry's smartphones on bb10.
It doesn't matter what OS they would have used after the Iphone came out, it would have failed due to lack of radical innovation compared to the iphone.

Android is successful because it's free. No other reason.
If it would be better, it would also have 80% of the market in Japan, US, Australia, UK, high income countries. But it doesn't.

Actually it is one of the few things BlackBerry has done with a smartphone OS in years that has even approached gaining the respect of the industry.

I guess that's why it is not selling at all!

Posted via CB10

[sorinv]

From the last set of financials:

Adjusted EBITDA of $37 million; positive for twelfth consecutive quarter.

We remain on track to deliver 30 percent growth in company total software and services revenues for the full fiscal year. We are raising our outlook on profitability for FY17. We now expect to achieve non-GAAP EPS profitability for the full year, up from a prior range of breakeven to a five cent loss.

80% of software revenue is recurring.

BlackBerry had over 3,000 enterprise customer orders in the quarter.

So, 37million dollars for a company that was once number 1 on the Toronto stock exchange is a success and a sign of recovery...

I thought even last quarter they made much more from the sales of the orphan bb10 phones abandoned by Chen three years ago...

Posted via CB10

[sorinv]

Going Android was just a distraction, the real goal was to kill BB10. Anyone with above seagull intelligence know that going Android is very difficult to become profitable. The Android market is highly competitive and selling Android phones for the price that Blackberry does without any significant advantages will of course fail and not sell in high numbers. We know today that the Blackberry Android phones actually sell worse than their BB10 phones and this despite being more available to consumers.

In any normal company, the CEO would have been fired by now. John Chen has absolutely no vision for the company other than kill BB10. This will go the same way Nokia with Stephen Elop. Despite killing the company the trojan horse CEO will remain until the end when the company is being sold.

Yes. I have been writing pretty much the same sentences since December 2013. It was pretty clear to me then that Chen was BlackBerry's Zafirofski.
All phones and OS-es must be US controlled and data mined.
Better that way than Chinese- or Russian- controlled.

Posted via CB10

[sorinv]

It wasn't his wish, it was his job. He is a software guy who was hired by the board to pivot the company.

Can we please agree to ban the word "pivot"? I find it as offensive as a swear word.

Posted via CB10

[tre10]

I guess that's why it is not selling at all!

Posted via CB10

Actually BlackBerry's version of Android would probably do ok if it wasn't attached to the name BlackBerry. The brand is a boat anchor when it comes to smartphone sales.

The only reason it didn't make sense to end smartphone production after they decided BB10 wasn't viable is because they needed revenue to stay alive til software could take over.

Yes this could have been done with BB10 but Android is cheaper ad they don't have to pay to develop all the fancy new features consumers and some enterprises need. It allowed them to cut staff significantly and Google more than likely pitched in on some costs( it's been reported they help with promotion funds for any GPS compatible device. Sweetening of the pot for manufacturers).

I know you're response will be they could have just maintained what they had with browser updates and security patches. Well the problem there is that all the other competitors including lowly Windows Phone are still actively being developed with new features and such. How does BlackBerry charge the same or more for a phone with less development? Security? Hub? Gestures? The people who want those things and are fine with nothing but browser and security updates are to small to justify investment in.

BlackBerry's options like it or not were to shut up shop and retire proud to their values and all that other stuff ( Hasn't paid the bills for a long time btw) or go Android and live to fight another day.

They chose to continue to exist albeit as a shadow of their former self. If they get bought I'm sure the shareholders will get more than if it was liquidated at the end of 2013.

[sorinv]

They're not selling phones anymore. They aren't manufacturing any phones anymore. They are licensing their Android flavor. Other companies are taking ALL the hardware risk. If future phones flop, BlackBerry doesn't write off a dime.

All they're 'selling' at this point is leftover stock. What do you suggest they do, bury all remaining unsold phones in the desert with the ET cartridges?

Blackberry Poptart SE - Cricket Wireless

No. I am suggesting that these written-off phones, which they haven't been manufacturing for the past two years, are responsible for keeping them alive as they try to transition to a software-only company.
If they didn't have those phones and BIS revenue, they'd be bankrupt already.
Either way, they will be soon or sold for nothing.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

No. I am suggesting that these written-off phones, which they haven't been manufacturing for the past two years, are responsible for keeping them alive as they try to transition to a software-only company.
If they didn't have those phones and BIS revenue, they'd be bankrupt already.
Either way, they will be soon or sold for nothing.

Posted via CB10

No, they are still alive DESPITE the heavy losses already incurred with those very BB10 devices.

The massive write-downs and development costs far, far exceed any tiny residual revenues from the last remaining drabs of BB10 devices.

DTEK60 / Z30

[conite]

So, 37million dollars for a company that was once number 1 on the Toronto stock exchange is a success and a sign of recovery...

Posted via CB10

Sure is.

They are a new, smaller company, generating revenue from a fledgling software business - while still trying to overcome the staggering damage caused by BB10.

DTEK60 / Z30

[sorinv]

Actually BlackBerry's version of Android would probably do ok if it wasn't attached to the name BlackBerry. The brand is a boat anchor when it comes to smartphone sales.

I agree with the last sentence, but not with the first. Is android a success for anyone but Samsung and Google (indirectly through data mining)?

The only reason it didn't make sense to end smartphone production after they decided BB10 wasn't viable is because they needed revenue to stay alive til software could take over.

Agreed, but it is BBOS and BB10 phones even now, not android phones that are making them money and have been making them money for the past two years when they stopped manufacturing them.

Yes this could have been done with BB10 but Android is cheaper ad they don't have to pay to develop all the fancy new features consumers and some enterprises need. It allowed them to cut staff significantly and Google more than likely pitched in on some costs( it's been reported they help with promotion funds for any GPS compatible device. Sweetening of the pot for manufacturers).

That last sentence alone should tell you that this is not a market economy. That android is a vehicle for Google to exert its monopoly power and data-mine everyone.
How on Earth can anyone trust BlackBerry when they allow Google to do that to them and their customers?

I know you're response will be they could have just maintained what they had with browser updates and security patches. Well the problem there is that all the other competitors including lowly Windows Phone are still actively being developed with new features and such. How does BlackBerry charge the same or more for a phone with less development? Security? Hub? Gestures? The people who want those things and are fine with nothing but browser and security updates are to small to justify investment in.

That's exactly what they did and still managed to sell more bb10 phones than android phones. They didn't have to compete with anyone. Bb10 phones sell for what they are and were two years ago. Why waste money and effort on android?
The people had already been laid off, just focus on the software business and grow that faster if it is so profitable and BlackBerry's future.

BlackBerry's options like it or not were to shut up shop and retire proud to their values and all that other stuff ( Hasn't paid the bills for a long time btw) or go Android and live to fight another day.

No, with hindsight now we know that with or without android, they would have still lived to this day. Bb10 phones and BIS paid for that, not android phones.

They chose to continue to exist albeit as a shadow of their former self. If they get bought I'm sure the shareholders will get more than if it was liquidated at the end of 2013.

No. Again with hindsight, we know that they didn't have to shut down shop in 2013.
Anybody who would have come after Heins would have trimmed the workforce and ordered parts and phones in more moderate numbers. Besides, anybody who would have come would have benefited, like Chen, from the big write-off of bb10 phones and development cost that occurred in September 2013, only 7 months after the launch of bb10.
There was no patience. The board freaked out and lost their head and acted like headless chicken for quite awhile.

Another CEO could have done a better job at growing the ecosystem for bb10, selling more phones while still focusing gradually more on other software business, all of which were there in 2013: QNX automotive, enterprise software.
Chen didn't create anything that wasn't already at BlackBerry when he arrived, apart from acquiring several US competitors which weren't cash positive.

Maybe his mandate was also to transform BlackBerry into a non-consumer US security software company and in the process he had to save a couple of US software companies that weren't able to survive on their own.

The masses didn't need privacy or security.
The masses need to be thoroughly datamined and monitored.


Posted via CB10

[sorinv]

No, they are still alive DESPITE the heavy losses already incurred with those very BB10 devices.

The massive write-downs and development costs far, far exceed any tiny residual revenues from the last remaining drabs of BB10 devices.

DTEK60 / Z30

The write-downs occurred during his predecessor's stint.
The sales of bb10 phones were used by Chen to keep himself and BlackBerry alive by boosting his revenue while his software transition and acquisitions were burning Billions, yes billions of cash, that was still in BlackBerry coffers when Chen arrived.

Let's not distort history. In September 2013, BlackBerry had almost 3 Billion in cash. Now they have 1Billion or less. The missing 2Billion are a bigger loss than the 1B that was written off for bb10 phones.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

The write-downs occurred during his predecessor's stint.
The sales of bb10 phones were used by Chen to keep himself and BlackBerry alive by boosting his revenue while his software transition and acquisitions were burning Billions, yes billions of cash, that was still in BlackBerry coffers when Chen arrived.

Let's not distort history. In September 2013, BlackBerry had almost 3 Billion in cash. Now they have 1Billion or less. The missing 2Billion are a bigger loss than the 1B that was written off for bb10 phones.

Posted via CB10

3 billion less huge commitments.

They continued to write down hardware over the course of the last 3 years.

The money was far better spent on Good than the fire pit that was BB10.

DTEK60 / Z30