[morpho4444]

Is it safe to assume that Blackberry10 will have the best low end device of all? I mean, QNX needs at least Dual Core perhaps 1ghz minimum. As the playbook, that could be the specs for the low end device. not to mention that it could be a low end phone with 4G.. is there any 4G low end phone already? Is important because that way, latin american market that 50% of it uses Blackberry and now they are migrating into LTE, will definitely buy this low end 4g dual core phone.

I think Blackberry in the end has to have the following line up

Aristo: a Beast
London: the main touchscreen device
Milan: a slider
N-Series: Our beloved bold
B-Series: our curve low end phone

[ichat]

Obviously a low end device has been in talks here in the forums for a long time, however, I don't know, for bb10 to be enjoyable it needs some pretty decent specs.

Sent from my Nintendo NES

[JR A]

I kinda hope they don't make a "low end" device, but instead make their flagship phones more affordable (subsidies, rebates, trade in, etc.)

If they do make a "low end" phone, keep it in developing countries only and let the flagship model win over people's perception in North America.

[ichat]

I kinda hope they don't make a "low end" device, but instead make their flagship phones more affordable (subsidies, rebates, trade in, etc.)

If they do make a "low end" phone, keep it in developing countries only and let the flagship model win over people's perception in North America.

I am very much with you on the trade in, I sometimes never have an idea on what to do on my torch once I get a new phone.

Sent from my Nintendo NES

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

I duno 2 tell u tha troof

[BB_Bmore]

A low end device could simply be os8 and run bbos. OR Rim could even sell the 9810/9900 to satisfy the low end of the market. Im not sure how they can build a low end BlackBerry10 phone?

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

A low end device could simply be os8 and run bbos. OR Rim could even sell the 9810/9900 to satisfy the low end of the market. Im not sure how they can build a low end BlackBerry10 phone?

The 9900 will never be lower end even if its old. The manufacturing costs are still high on it no matter what

[gorang]

My bet is that low end BB10s will be 3G with PB (or similar) processing power. It wouldn't make sense to put 4G/LTE chips in those, people need to have sense that its a lower end device. And probably no front end camera and some other sensors.

[antheauxny]

My bet is that low end BB10s will be 3G with PB (or similar) processing power. It wouldn't make sense to put 4G/LTE chips in those, people need to have sense that its a lower end device. And probably no front end camera and some other sensors.

There's plenty of low-end devices with 4G/LTE & front facing cameras. There's quite a few with Sprint.


Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

[Saiga]

I forget how clueless some people here can be about devices outside of BlackBerry. The Dev Alpha devices are low ended. The L-series is low end based on what its rumored specs are. So far every BlackBerry device that we know about is low end. They are just now catching up to the hardware that Android OEMs were using almost 2 years ago.

Android devices with BB10 like specs launch for $49 or free on contract these days. I'm talking about phones with a dual core snap dragon processor, 1gb of ram, front and rear cameras and 4G LTE connectivity. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking LG lucid, Samsung Galaxy Stellar, and the Pantech Maurader. All 3 of those phones are low end turds. Devices that I consider dumpster devices because there isn't anything special about them. But they all 3 offer what BB10 is rumored to be launching with. All 3 of them are free with a contract also and all 3 have access to a fully developed ecosystem with every app a consumer could want or need. Kinda makes me wonder how well RIM's low end devices with a high end device price will perform with all those cheaper options available.

I mean the BB10 devices will probably launch at $200-$300 with a new 2 year agreement. The Nexus 4 packs a quad core and 2gb of ram for $300 and no contract at all. Its very concerning. I'm not sure what RIM is going to do, but they need to figure out a way to make their BB10 devices dirt cheap for consumers or equip them with hardware that is competitive for the price.

[jon4400]

Unless we're talking about camera, battery, screen resolution or antenna, specs don't really matter when comparing two devices with completely different Operating Systems.

[Saiga]

I'm talking about random, normal everyday consumer at the carrier store. He sees 4 phones. All 4 of them have dual core processors, 1gb of ram, dual cameras, and 4G LTE. 3 of them are free with a new contract and 1 of them costs $200-$300 on contract.

Yeah, I'm sure the normal everyday consumer won't see an issue with that at all.

[dragonx6]

There has to be a low end device...end of story.

Everyone needs to remember a lot of places people still have to pay full price for phones.

[gorang]

I forget how clueless some people here can be about devices outside of BlackBerry. The Dev Alpha devices are low ended. The L-series is low end based on what its rumored specs are. So far every BlackBerry device that we know about is low end. They are just now catching up to the hardware that Android OEMs were using almost 2 years ago.

Android devices with BB10 like specs launch for $49 or free on contract these days. I'm talking about phones with a dual core snap dragon processor, 1gb of ram, front and rear cameras and 4G LTE connectivity. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking LG lucid, Samsung Galaxy Stellar, and the Pantech Maurader. All 3 of those phones are low end turds. Devices that I consider dumpster devices because there isn't anything special about them. But they all 3 offer what BB10 is rumored to be launching with. All 3 of them are free with a contract also and all 3 have access to a fully developed ecosystem with every app a consumer could want or need. Kinda makes me wonder how well RIM's low end devices with a high end device price will perform with all those cheaper options available.

I mean the BB10 devices will probably launch at $200-$300 with a new 2 year agreement. The Nexus 4 packs a quad core and 2gb of ram for $300 and no contract at all. Its very concerning. I'm not sure what RIM is going to do, but they need to figure out a way to make their BB10 devices dirt cheap for consumers or equip them with hardware that is competitive for the price.

Numbers numbers numbers...
Its not all about numbers buddy, some things are about optimisation and fine tuning.

[Roo Zilla]

I'm talking about random, normal everyday consumer at the carrier store. He sees 4 phones. All 4 of them have dual core processors, 1gb of ram, dual cameras, and 4G LTE. 3 of them are free with a new contract and 1 of them costs $200-$300 on contract.

Yeah, I'm sure the normal everyday consumer won't see an issue with that at all.

What could potentially make it worse is if Samsung decides to continue making the S3 and sell it for cheap after the S4 is introduced. A move like that of course will force the other Android makers to follow suit with similar generation phones.

[lnichols]

I forget how clueless some people here can be about devices outside of BlackBerry. The Dev Alpha devices are low ended. The L-series is low end based on what its rumored specs are. So far every BlackBerry device that we know about is low end. They are just now catching up to the hardware that Android OEMs were using almost 2 years ago.

Android devices with BB10 like specs launch for $49 or free on contract these days. I'm talking about phones with a dual core snap dragon processor, 1gb of ram, front and rear cameras and 4G LTE connectivity. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking LG lucid, Samsung Galaxy Stellar, and the Pantech Maurader. All 3 of those phones are low end turds. Devices that I consider dumpster devices because there isn't anything special about them. But they all 3 offer what BB10 is rumored to be launching with. All 3 of them are free with a contract also and all 3 have access to a fully developed ecosystem with every app a consumer could want or need. Kinda makes me wonder how well RIM's low end devices with a high end device price will perform with all those cheaper options available.

I mean the BB10 devices will probably launch at $200-$300 with a new 2 year agreement. The Nexus 4 packs a quad core and 2gb of ram for $300 and no contract at all. Its very concerning. I'm not sure what RIM is going to do, but they need to figure out a way to make their BB10 devices dirt cheap for consumers or equip them with hardware that is competitive for the price.

1. What runs faster on same hardware: Windows or Ubuntu? You can't compare how two totally different OS's on the same processor/GPU combo with any accuracy. BB10 may run much better on lower end hardware than Android.

2. I doubt that those lower end Android devices you are mentioning have a screen and ppi like the L, with by all reports is phenomenal. Also what are the other components used in the devices (WiFi/Bluetooth Chips, power managment chips, etc.)? There is much more to a phone than GHz and cores. Also how much R&D did those companies put into the the OS, and are they all paying the licensing fees that RIM pays to other companies for the IP that they are using in their "free" OS. RIM has to pay these fees to do business, Android OEM's are being slowly sued to pay for their use of the same technology.

3. The Nexus4 you mention at that price is being subsidized by Google. The retail cost of the phone for the carriers to sell it is $499. This has upset the carriers that they can't sell the phone outright for as cheap as Google can.

The generalizations you through out gloss over a lot of important things that affect the cost and performance of a phone.

[Saiga]

Numbers numbers numbers...
Its not all about numbers buddy, some things are about optimisation and fine tuning.

So you think consumers do or will think that way?

Do you think the sales reps are going to tell customers that "it is really optimized, so just ignore the fact that this phone has 2 year old hardware and it costs as much or more as phones with top of the line, current hardware."

I wish RIM could optimize and fine tune using current hardware instead of old hardware. Just think, you would be even better off then and we'd have a justifiable reason to pay a high end price for the phone.

[Roo Zilla]

1. What runs faster on same hardware: Windows or Ubuntu? You can't compare how two totally different OS's on the same processor/GPU combo with any accuracy. BB10 may run much better on lower end hardware than Android.

2. I doubt that those lower end Android devices you are mentioning have a screen and ppi like the L, with by all reports is phenomenal. Also what are the other components used in the devices (WiFi/Bluetooth Chips, power managment chips, etc.)? There is much more to a phone than GHz and cores. Also how much R&D did those companies put into the the OS, and are they all paying the licensing fees that RIM pays to other companies for the IP that they are using in their "free" OS. RIM has to pay these fees to do business, Android OEM's are being slowly sued to pay for their use of the same technology.

3. The Nexus4 you mention at that price is being subsidized by Google. The retail cost of the phone for the carriers to sell it is $499. This has upset the carriers that they can't sell the phone outright for as cheap as Google can.

The generalizations you through out gloss over a lot of important things that affect the cost and performance of a phone.

And to the general not so tech savvy public how much of all that matters? I'd say not very much, which was Saiga's point. I mean seriously, what phone customer's gonna ask a salesperson how much the company spent on R&D or how much they pay in licensing fees, or how many power management chips it has....

Customers care about 3 things..... apps, Mhz, screen. They don't even care about memory on a phone because they're not even sure what it does. All they know is bigger is better.

[gorang]

So you think consumers do or will think that way?

Do you think the sales reps are going to tell customers that "it is really optimized, so just ignore the fact that this phone has 2 year old hardware and it costs as much or more as phones with top of the line, current hardware."

I wish RIM could optimize and fine tune using current hardware instead of old hardware. Just think, you would be even better off then and we'd have a justifiable reason to pay a high end price for the phone.

Realistically only nerds care about numbers, and those more educated nerds will actually know that numbers don't mean everything. So the crowd that cares about numbers will go for Android regardless, Apple and RIM will go after user experience and will offer better user ecperience than Android devices with higher 'numbers'. Average user will go into store and test out few phones and buy the one they like not the one that has higher 'numbers'.

[Roo Zilla]

Apple and RIM will go after user experience and will offer better user ecperience than Android devices with higher 'numbers'. Average user will go into store and test out few phones and buy the one they like not the one that has higher 'numbers'.

Not really. A top end Android phone has a lot going for it, including user experience. I have quite a few friends carrying around S3's now, and they all love it. They never comment on the faster processor, or the memory or whatever. What they like is the user experience, which includes elements of the screen, Google integration especially Google Now, apps, some really like the UI. People say stuff like... "the OS is fine tuned so it's faster on a slower processor....etc., etc." To the end user, whether it's done that way, or done on a faster processor, they don't know and they don't care. When they go to the phone shop, what they see is.... "700K apps, 1.5Ghz quad core processor, 4.8" screen" Things like... "fine tuned OS" doesn't even enter their minds.

[jagrlover]

We can debate this kind of stuff all day long. What I don't get and never will is the negative trolling. Look at it this way: I live in Toronto and cheer for the Leafs. I go to games and cheer loud and proud regardless of how they're doing. I don't drive down to Buffalo and cheer against the Sabres. Does that make sense to any of you?

[lnichols]

Customers care about 3 things..... apps, Mhz, screen. They don't even care about memory on a phone because they're not even sure what it does. All they know is bigger is better.

OK so they will be able to say dual core 1.5GHz, even with the London's OMAP 4470. Higher PPI screen than iPhone or GS3. And they will be able to claim apps based on what we are seeing and hearing (we'll know more on January 30th). iPhone has shown that a smaller 4" screen can be successful and RIM's will be bigger than that. So they have all the numbers other than if someone is itching for a 4.8" or larger screen. So what's the issue again?

[Masahiro]

I feel like buying the L-series just out of spite after reading this thread.

[morpho4444]

I forget how clueless some people here can be about devices outside of BlackBerry. The Dev Alpha devices are low ended. The L-series is low end based on what its rumored specs are. So far every BlackBerry device that we know about is low end. They are just now catching up to the hardware that Android OEMs were using almost 2 years ago.

Android devices with BB10 like specs launch for $49 or free on contract these days. I'm talking about phones with a dual core snap dragon processor, 1gb of ram, front and rear cameras and 4G LTE connectivity. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking LG lucid, Samsung Galaxy Stellar, and the Pantech Maurader. All 3 of those phones are low end turds. Devices that I consider dumpster devices because there isn't anything special about them. But they all 3 offer what BB10 is rumored to be launching with. All 3 of them are free with a contract also and all 3 have access to a fully developed ecosystem with every app a consumer could want or need. Kinda makes me wonder how well RIM's low end devices with a high end device price will perform with all those cheaper options available.

I mean the BB10 devices will probably launch at $200-$300 with a new 2 year agreement. The Nexus 4 packs a quad core and 2gb of ram for $300 and no contract at all. Its very concerning. I'm not sure what RIM is going to do, but they need to figure out a way to make their BB10 devices dirt cheap for consumers or equip them with hardware that is competitive for the price.

Your low end alpha device beats the **** out of your quad core 2gbram nexus 4 on Sunspider... so much for "POWER"

[Saiga]

Your low end alpha device beats the **** out of your quad core 2gbram nexus 4 on Sunspider... so much for "POWER"

Only with one browser that I don't even use. I told everyone I don't like chrome, I even uninstalled it from my Nexus. I use AOSP browser, which easily beats Dev Alpha's browser in sunspider. But who cares? It is just a synthetic benchmark that doesn't really reflect real world use. So, what's your point exactly? Lol we should see how chrome, Firefox and dolphin browsers perform on BB10. Oh wait... That won't work will it? I would say we should compare how well each device can stream Netflix, but oops again. Can't try that one out either. Blah now I have the Power boom boom boom song stuck in my head Lol.