[MarsupilamiX]

Okay then I'll just wait until you reveal your point.

I think that the users Inichols and H_O Boomaye pretty much guessed where I wanted to go with this thread.

You don't entice buyers with that image anymore.
Android/Apple both sell "fun", "happiness", "joy", "excitement" and another endless list of positive words with positive connotation while at the same time selling "work" as well.
iOS dominates the business world now (live with it) even though it's a consumer product.
The business world and the consumer have started to merge a long time ago, when it comes down to things like smartphones, tablets and PCs.

Wanting to only be synonymous with work is the completely wrong approach and lifestyle choice, from BlackBerry.
It's exactly as Inichols said:" I work to live, I don't live to work".
Yes, there are some workaholics, but the usual connotation with workaholic is "burnout", and I guess that's not the most intelligent marketing message you want to send as well.

You usually don't want to be associated with something you have to do. That takes away from your free time, family, and even fun.
For most people, work is basically the antonym of fun.
(not saying that work can't be great, rewarding, interesting and provide you with fun. But generally speaking, I am correct.)

Not to forget about work issued BlackBerries.
There is a certain correlation between an employee getting a Curve in the year of 2012 from his employer, and wanting BYOD 2 weeks after that event.
In this case, the employee got a bad experience with BlackBerry because he didn't like the phone.
Which gets reinforced because not only was the phone bad, no, the phone even gets associated with work as well (anti-fun).

This is part of the reason why BlackBerry's image started to disappear under OS7 and another why, sending the message of being "synonymous with work", is completely and utterly misguided.
This is worse than #Tools not Toys# could have ever been.

Posted via CB10

[TgeekB]

Exactly. Look at the iphone commercials. Aren't they showing people, together, enjoying some activity? While people do use them for work it's because they "want" work to be fun also. Very smart thread OP and how did people respond? Boring, negative, etc. because we don't want "work only". The times they are a changin'. It's not rocket science.

Germany. 2014 FIFA World Cup Champs!

[--TommesJay--]

I think that the users Inichols and H_O Boomaye pretty much guessed where I wanted to go with this thread.

Yep, just did I a 100%. So well, other than you I don't think BlackBerry wants to be synonymous with "work", but synonymous with "getting work done", whatever the exact wording was during that interview.

It's fun how you guys come up with this strategy from BlackBerry and say thinks like "hey think of Apple's marketing strategy and their codes" as if you guys just discovered fire.

It's consumer mass market vs business niche all over the place again. Yuk and sigh guys.

The market has spoken and BlackBerry can't compete with Apple and Samsung and the likes in the mass market race for consumers, they have to find a little viable niche where they offer the best products. Simple. Differentiation. And then it's just okay to have your very own image that's "synonymous with work" (read: getting work done) instead of

- laugh with your family
- have a good time at the beach
- have fun in a rollercoaster
- make photos of your little boy
-....

Hhhh.......

[prplhze2000]

Work? Good. Now give us a baked in wireless print function.

Posted via CB10

[MarsupilamiX]

Yep, just did I a 100%. So well, other than you I don't think BlackBerry wants to be synonymous with "work", but synonymous with "getting work done", whatever the exact wording was during that interview.

But that's not what I am talking about...?

Apart from that, it is entirely possible to get "work done", while at the same time "providing fun".
This is how the other platforms handle it, and it seems to work out far better for them.
As was said before, iOS dominates the business world nowadays and one reason for that, is that people associate Apple devices with more positive connotations instead of what "work" alone implies.

It's consumer mass market vs business niche all over the place again. Yuk and sigh guys.

You get work done with tools, not toys, right? (#tools not toys)
Wrong....
Nowadays you get work done with something that can be a tool AND a toy (at least in the smartphone/tablet/PC sector).

Which is also why your assertion is completely wrong. It's not business vs consumer electronics all over again.
The paradigm has changed and those concepts merged.

It's fun how you guys come up with this strategy from BlackBerry and say thinks like "hey think of Apple's marketing strategy and their codes" as if you guys just discovered fire.

Who tries to sell this as the ultimate revelation or epiphany apart from you???
Nice spin

You should rather see it like this btw:
If Apple basically doesn't market their business abilities in the standard media channels, why are they so successful in that sector nonetheless?

The market has spoken and BlackBerry can't compete with Apple and Samsung and the likes in the mass market race for consumers, they have to find a little viable niche where they offer the best products. Simple. Differentiation.

So what's the Z3 then?
Or why is the Classic rumoured to be sold for 350$?
Shouldn't the Passport be specced lower, if something petty like the spec race doesn't matter?

But those are just simple examples to show, that even BlackBerry understands, that they have to go with certain trends in the consumer electronics sector.
It also means, that BlackBerry partly still tries to get a number of consumers on board.

We shouldn't forget that the market has spoken about the overall BB10 package.
And the consumer wants an ecosystem, which sadly still isn't on acceptable levels for most consumers.
That BlackBerry overprices their devices to underspec them as well, probably didn't help either.
That BB10 wasn't ready for prime time until the Z30, neither.
To announce a sale that failed, to then wanting to go private, which failed as well, surprisingly didn't help to sell handsets.

The market has spoken about this overall package you got with BB10, and honestly, it's no wonder it didn't sell well.

And then it's just okay to have your very own image that's "synonymous with work" (read: getting work done) instead of

- laugh with your family
- have a good time at the beach
- have fun in a rollercoaster
- make photos of your little boy
-....

Hhhh.......

Or you could get work done like no other OS out there, AND be associated with all the positive things the "toys" are.
Now, what do you think should be preferred....?

Posted via CB10

[RCrash]

1. Money
2. Money
3. Money
4. Money
5. BlackBerry

Posted via CB10

[bspence87]

I work to live, not live to work. You play a risky game trying to be synonymous with something people have to do as opposed to want to do. I think part of the reason the competition is gaining traction in the corporate space is because they get the job done, but aren't viewed as leashes from company. They need to be pushing Balance and making sure people know that only a part of your phone is accessible to the corporate overlords and not the whole thing. It would be nice to even have the option to shut down the work side for when you go on vacation so your company can't bother you on your time when you deem it to be your time.

Posted with a BlackBerry Z10

I know what you're saying, but that's just how you're taking it.
I see it like: work is necessary, get the tools you need to make it easier so that you can get back to life quicker.
I mean, I love my BlackBerry as much as the next guy, but it's not really what I would define as "fun". I travel for fun, or go out to town, or play golf. My BlackBerry just makes those things happen.

[--TommesJay--]

But that's not what I am talking about...?

Apart from that, it is entirely possible to get "work done", while at the same time "providing fun".
This is how the other platforms handle it, and it seems to work out far better for them.
As was said before, iOS dominates the business world nowadays and one reason for that, is that people associate Apple devices with more positive connotations instead of what "work" alone implies.



You get work done with tools, not toys, right? (#tools not toys)
Wrong....
Nowadays you get work done with something that can be a tool AND a toy (at least in the smartphone/tablet/PC sector).

Which is also why your assertion is completely wrong. It's not business vs consumer electronics all over again.
The paradigm has changed and those concepts merged.



Who tries to sell this as the ultimate revelation or epiphany apart from you???
Nice spin

You should rather see it like this btw:
If Apple basically doesn't market their business abilities in the standard media channels, why are they so successful in that sector nonetheless?



So what's the Z3 then?
Or why is the Classic rumoured to be sold for 350$?
Shouldn't the Passport be specced lower, if something petty like the spec race doesn't matter?

But those are just simple examples to show, that even BlackBerry understands, that they have to go with certain trends in the consumer electronics sector.
It also means, that BlackBerry partly still tries to get a number of consumers on board.

We shouldn't forget that the market has spoken about the overall BB10 package.
And the consumer wants an ecosystem, which sadly still isn't on acceptable levels for most consumers.
That BlackBerry overprices their devices to underspec them as well, probably didn't help either.
That BB10 wasn't ready for prime time until the Z30, neither.
To announce a sale that failed, to then wanting to go private, which failed as well, surprisingly didn't help to sell handsets.

The market has spoken about this overall package you got with BB10, and honestly, it's no wonder it didn't sell well.



Or you could get work done like no other OS out there, AND be associated with all the positive things the "toys" are.
Now, what do you think should be preferred....?

Posted via CB10

Dude you're so annoying.

I'll come back to you later.

[MarsupilamiX]

Dude you're so annoying.

I'll come back to you later.

Ok?
Should I be impressed now?

Posted via CB10

[qbnkelt]

Fast pace
Brain storming
Development
Process improvement
Regulations
Stress
Deployment


Sent from my GORGEOUS, AWESOME Gold 64G iPhone 5s via Tapatalk

[ALToronto]

I run my own business, and my work IS my life, with a few interruptions for family stuff. Most of my business associates use iPhones, as my work is in the creative /design /architecture field.

So what do I experience almost daily?

- "I have to get to my computer before I can send you the drawings"

- "But the colour is not the same as on the picture I took with my iPhone"

- 8 separate emails, each with one file attached

- Having to turn on my mobile hotspot so an associate can use her iPad during a site visit, since she can't get good signal on her iPhone

As well as lots of blurry, portrait oriented photos, taken with "the best mobile camera"

Yes, they laugh that I "still use a BlackBerry", but I get stuff done on the road, together with a Windows tablet. So when I do get home, I get to spend time with my kids rather than having to do all the admin work on the computer.

Work to me means

Looking at drawings
Quoting projects
Project management
Participation in professional forums
Designing, creating (the Windows tablet with a pen is really helpful here)
Managing employees
Invoicing and paying bills
Secure mobile banking

BlackBerry helps me do it better and faster.

Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

Ok?
Should I be impressed now?

Posted via CB10

Uhmm no ? *scratches his head*

[m1kr0]

So, my personal codes for "synonymous with work" would be:

(1) threat
(2) stress
(3) ego stroke
(4) money
(5) enforced
(6) no-fun

So, yeah, I have no idea why BlackBerry would want its products coded that way. Most business products try to sound like fun when possible. Why? Harvard Business Review recently ran an article with research showing that only 15% of workers were really engaged by their jobs.

I suppose that "synonymous with business" is just another Chen statement about abandoning the consumer segment without coming right out and saying so.


Z-30/STA 100-5/10.3.0.700+.296/T-Mobile USA

Some assistance required: it was not a Chen statement. I made a thread on exactly this here: http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=946581

Z10 STL100-1, OS 10.2.1.3247

[ronfc]

1. Employment
2. Financial security
3. Challenge
4. Constant education
5. Experience

Honestly, I love my work. The actual work itself. The thing I hate are the people and their bad attitudes.

Cave, cave, moderator videt

[eyesopen1111]

Some assistance required: it was not a Chen statement. I made a thread on exactly this here: http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=946581

Z10 STL100-1, OS 10.2.1.3247

Thanks, but I think OP's point is that Chen is probably controlling the marketing minion since this "synonymous with work" campaign is admitted to be the number one marketing priority. I mean, we probably agree that Chen is giving the marching orders on this point, right?

So marketing speaks the words, but it's Chen who's behind the message. And I think Chen wants out of consumer devices, which will take him close to being out of smartphones, period, since there probably won't be enough sales if only enterprise customers are pursued.

Z-30/STA 100-5/10.3.0.700+.296/T-Mobile USA

[m1kr0]

Thanks, but I think OP's point is that Chen is probably controlling the marketing minion since this "synonymous with work" campaign is admitted to be the number one marketing priority. I mean, we probably agree that Chen is giving the marching orders on this point, right?

So marketing speaks the words, but it's Chen who's behind the message. And I think Chen wants out of consumer devices, which will take him close to being out of smartphones, period, since there probably won't be enough sales if only enterprise customers are pursued.

Z-30/STA 100-5/10.3.0.700+.296/T-Mobile USA

Well we agree in principle. The focus is enterprise/corporate/business despite Chen having said that they won't abandon the consumer and handset market. The Z3 release can be seen by some as embracing the consumer market but then again it is just as suitable as an enterprise device. I personally don't think BB can compete in the consumer market against the likes of Apple or Google, and I think BB realizes this.

Z10 STL100-1, OS 10.2.1.3247

[eyesopen1111]

Well we agree in principle. The focus is enterprise/corporate/business despite Chen having said that they won't abandon the consumer and handset market. The Z3 release can be seen by some as embracing the consumer market but then again it is just as suitable as an enterprise device. I personally don't think BB can compete in the consumer market against the likes of Apple or Google, and I think BB realizes this.

Z10 STL100-1, OS 10.2.1.3247

If the Z3 were meant as a consumer device, Chen wouldn't have canceled all of the consumer-facing services like score loop, music, video, etc. This is abandonment of the consumer market in fact--forget what Chen claims. Instead, I'd suggest that the Z3 is a relatively cheap fleet phone for business, but that it will be unsuccessful in the BYOD environment against, wait for it, the Apple iPhone 6 and Android devices.

I also disagree with the implication that BlackBerry should flee the market if it cannot currently defeat iPhone or Android. Under that logic, MS should have left years ago! The reality is that BlackBerry only needs to capture some market share while running profitably, they don't have to send iPhone and Android packing! I think 5% of smartphone market (1 out of every 20 buyers) should be a feasible target.

Z-30/STA 100-5/10.3.0.700+.296/T-Mobile USA

[MarsupilamiX]

If the Z3 were meant as a consumer device, Chen wouldn't have canceled all of the consumer-facing services like score loop, music, video, etc. This is abandonment of the consumer market in fact--forget what Chen claims. Instead, I'd suggest that the Z3 is a relatively cheap fleet phone for business, but that it will be unsuccessful in the BYOD environment against, wait for it, the Apple iPhone 6 and Android devices.

You disregard 2 things:
1) The Z3 is meant for emerging markets.
2) The Amazon deal.

The first one is of importance, because emerging markets "have their own ecosystem". Whatever BlackBerry canceled or sold that is of importance in the "western world", is of much lesser importance in emerging markets.
So currently, the Z3 is still a consumer device its intended the region.

The second point is important because of the LTE Z3 and other touchscreen devices.
The Amazon app store deal is meant for consumers "in the west" who want some apps on their BlackBerry. It's not exactly a business feature to have it.

That the Z3 won't compete with an iPhone 6 is clear, but that's not the point of the phone.

I also disagree with the implication that BlackBerry should flee the market if it cannot currently defeat iPhone or Android. Under that logic, MS should have left years ago! The reality is that BlackBerry only needs to capture some market share while running profitably, they don't have to send iPhone and Android packing! I think 5% of smartphone market (1 out of every 20 buyers) should be a feasible target.

Z-30/STA 100-5/10.3.0.700+.296/T-Mobile USA

Completely agreed with that part though.

Posted via CB10

[eyesopen1111]

You disregard 2 things:
1) The Z3 is meant for emerging markets.
2) The Amazon deal.

The first one is of importance, because emerging markets "have their own ecosystem". Whatever BlackBerry canceled or sold that is of importance in the "western world", is of much lesser importance in emerging markets.
So currently, the Z3 is still a consumer device its intended the region.

The second point is important because of the LTE Z3 and other touchscreen devices.
The Amazon app store deal is meant for consumers "in the west" who want some apps on their BlackBerry. It's not exactly a business feature to have it.

The Z3 started in emerging markets, but the LTE version will be sold in some First World markets, so I can't entirely agree with your first point. But, Chen's abandonment of the consumer market is demonstrated by both the Amazon deal and the extent to which emerging markets' consumer app universe for BB10 apps are being systematically removed from BlackBerry's direction and control. The fact that BlackBerry abandoned its consumer app ambitions to a direct competitor like Amazon is actually evidence that BlackBerry is leaving the consumer party in a long-term or permanent way. BlackBerry doesn't want to support music or videos or even score loop, so it's not about the money. It's about the fact that BlackBerry is O-U-T of the consumer side.

I personally think Chen wants to kill the smartphone business, so he pushes BlackBerry to market the most hopeless, increasingly unpopular form factor there is to ensure he has another poor sales showing. That justifies exiting the smartphone business, which makes the remaining businesses easier to sell--his true mission--just like Elop was there to get Nokia sold to MS. Then, BlackBerry shareholders rejoice and Chen makes millions per some contractual bonus, leaving me with no Z50. :-(

Z-30/STA 100-5/10.3.0.700+.296/T-Mobile USA

[currentodysseys]

heheh... Marsupilamix, steering the pot...

Ok It is difficult to make this short, I want to put some aspects on the table regarding methodology and on the second part of the post (in light grey) some additional points, if you stand to read that long of a post (take it as 3 posts in 1 lol). We can elaborate if you find points interesting.

To begin with, I agree with where you are going in a way, but an evaluation of MK strategy based on isolated "slogan" - or a "sum up" of BB's MK to a statement of the CMO, is not so straight forward and I think misleading without context. the CMO talks in context and elaborates on that statement, both on the interview as well as in the S&PMK execution and deployment.

The points:

Stating the 5 to 10 things one thinks of when thinking about work is a good way to build consensus in the conversation, but you know better than many that it is a conditional and directed "brainstorming" and whilst a good way to get a forum conversation going and ppl to participate, it is totally opposite to setting up a free brainstorming. In other words, it is not transferable as a marketing evaluation-factors generating procedure. You are pointing the direction and each post incrementally works in favor of the initial argument, not due to context, but due to a predictable accumulation of conditional consensus (look i-iii below).

Some of the handicaps:

i) The question itself is too open, lacks direction (seemingly) but then is pointed towards "think of negative work aspects", just when you start typing your 10 factors. So you lead the consensus towards focusing on the negative aspects (good move though ).

ii) People read through other readers and create collective mindset that affects their predisposition and conditions our processing and evaluation, in other words, most people will answer in the context and direction presented and will not list spontaneous answers. Others will react in order to "defend" their choice -also seen in the first page-, others will answer truly unconditioned -will be the minority, I guarantee that based on experience and methodology- and others will grasp onto the second level attributes that are translated to value (to me the most interesting points.

iii) Even though I agree with your point in great extent, the thread is inevitably going to end up comparing apples to oranges and also create the false feeling of legitimization.

Yes, I see that consumer might associate work=bad blackberry=work => BB=bad; but you know as I do that this logic is highly a sophism and MK works on added value. And BB has a lot of added value to play with and spin it in so many ways; and it looks like they intend to do it. BB=getting things done faster and with quality for work=less compromise + security + efficiency+productivity=more time for pleasure= you can get out your iphone, android or what ever phone you like and enjoy all you want (and mind you, maybe BB can do that for you to an extent, so choose your compromise...but life is not only mobile, you have a mobile so that you can have a life with friends and family ).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
below some points (read if you can stand the length lol).
That apart, and in order not to get all "Maslow here" I will just point out that the model can work as BB is producing it in MK terms, if it is done right (all about execution). We can be picky with words or we can quote Mad Men all we want, I ll tell you something though:

If the association is directed (BlackBerry = work) then the contextualization of this association once it is installed in the targeted demographic, can do wonders, by producing the added value and selling on it.

Lets try a spin: we see in the first page the "boring", "no fun", "have to" etc grouping of emotional response to work... great... associate your BB to work... and then BB shows you how you can limit all the negative impact and thus, the less you have to be occupied with work, the more value it brings. The easiest it is to do the "have to" work you hate, the more time you get for your "fun stuff" in life. Life-work balance. This is a field of MK added value play. If BB strategy builds on that (and it is building) then they actually are saying to all people that answered negatively in the first page, that with a BB phone, you will be able to get things done and have to occupy yourself less with that "negative" work you so much "do not like".

The above is oversimplified of course (forum conversation).

Another point (and will leave it for now -I have more points to propose in the discussion) is, that the market is now using other phones, not because they are "work horses" but the BYOD makes choice of a phone in work context to be undermined by choice of phone in personal life. In other words, companies that produce BYOD policies, want minimum requisites for their employee mobile use in a professional context, and save on money by BYOD. This, is a trade off. Less costs, "minor" functionality minimum requirements. Then those companies request that this cost cutting and functionality loss be compensated by IT solutions (be it BES or Apple, IBM, Oracle etc)and ask them to bridge that gap on a universal manner by increasing on core values (usability, connectivity, security, integration with inhouse CRMs etc). This is where BB, Apple and IBM play right now on the corporate level.

Blackberry is doing something different though: It has an added value proposition. It has a set of values and attributes that are still respected in branding (MK analysis not technical on BES): Security, Productivity, Efficiency. It is playing the "work horse" card, and mind you, we would be lying if we said it fails to produce (imperfect yes but hey, they do deliver).

BB lost traction because it ignored the "fun" side of mobile, agreed. But it IGNORED it to the point of having an astonishing gap produced and sacrificing functionality incremented by others at the same time; the balance tiped and BB plummeted. People gave up on the functionality, efficiency of BB proposition because the de-compensation was SO high. But isolated values of BB are still recognized (and may I say being further improved). This gap is being bridged, enough so, to have some people come back (in no way as intended by BB, far less than targeted). In that aspect, it is a totaly different ramification but I think it worths looking into for the subject here.

[--TommesJay--]

BlackBerry wants to stop the bleading first which means keeping the left existing users, so they pretty much identified who is left and then developed devices for those. The Z3 is a cheap BlackBerry for consumers as well as prosumers in emerging markets who held Curves so far but more and more jumped ship to cheap all touch Android phones, Lumias and the likes.

The Classic is meant for consumers and prosumers in western markets who like the classic BlackBerry form factor but didn't like BB10s approach. The Classic is meant to upgrade diehards and if possible draw some users back.

The Passport is an iconic cutting edge device for western markets to attract all kinds of people who like PKB devices, whether consumers or prosumers. The Passport is meant to gain some new market share.

[TgeekB]

BlackBerry wants to stop the bleading first which means keeping the left existing users, so they pretty much identified who is left and then developed devices for those. The Z3 is a cheap BlackBerry for consumers as well as prosumers in emerging markets who held Curves so far but more and more jumped ship to cheap all touch Android phones, Lumias and the likes.

The Classic is meant for consumers and prosumers in western markets who like the classic BlackBerry form factor but didn't like BB10s approach. The Classic is meant to upgrade diehards and if possible draw some users back.

The Passport is an iconic cutting edge device for western markets to attract all kinds of people who like PKB devices, whether consumers or prosumers. The Passport is meant to gain some new market share.

That last part is the most interesting. I'm beginning to believe the same thing. Not the same old blackberry may pull in some new people but only time will tell.

Germany. 2014 FIFA World Cup Champs!

[currentodysseys]

Chen himself said (paraphrasing) that he does not know if the passport will be that phone, to become a "new iconic BlackBerry" and drive momentum.

That shows they care about it and are throwing a "curve"-ball but still not the main agenda most probably. I think they are "scouting" a bit and try to build momentum.

To tie that to the thread topic, if their mk positions the passport to be the tool for work oriented use and bring out the added value it can offer to a person both as a professional and an individual, then"bb will be synonymous to work" by giving work solutions that make life easier, with quality, effectiveness and productivity. I think they are on a good way if they execute well, but to shift the tides in consumer perception of BlackBerry on the broader sense, I think it as improbable. It can build some good momentum that a "next step" could take advantage of maybe?

Posted via CB10

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

1. Never ending emails
2. "Other duties as specified" being the majority of my day
3. No one covering when I'm on holidays
4. Crappy coffee
5. Awkward conversation
6. Everyone else taking short cuts and breaking process

Etc