[AhmadCentral]

I don't know I'd say that Microsoft really went after the Business market first. They went after everybody regardless whether it was business or personal consumer.

Bear in mind I'm talking pre Windows 95 here.

[DenverRalphy]

Bear in mind I'm talking pre Windows 95 here.

I was talking as far back as Windows 3.1 which was around 1989/90-ish (since any version of Windows before that was a complete wreck). Though even prior to Windows, third party OEMs were shipping with MS-DOS as well.

[AhmadCentral]

I was talking as far back as Windows 3.1 which was around 1989/90-ish (since any version of Windows before that was a complete wreck). Though even prior to Windows, third party OEMs were shipping with MS-DOS as well.

I agree that Microsoft catered to consumers as well.

But it didn't become the corporate operating system of choice because of this.

It became the corporate operating system of choice first, then the consumer operating system of choice. I'm just using it as an example anyway of how in the early days of smartphones (Pre 2006) we saw Smart PDA's and stuff aimed at businesses rather than consumers.

[AhmadCentral]

Btw, just a quick one.

Active BlackBerry user base is now at 37 million.

Using a prediction model designed by myself I am estimating that around ~27 million are BBOS7 users whilst ~10m are BB10 users.

Please note that this is my estimate and not an official split.

[Zidentia]

The smartphone market grew by almost 30% last year.

Where are you getting 10-12% from?

30% is quite a rounding from 26% recorded in 2014. The IDC forecasts 12% growth and several others forecast 10% growth at best so this quite a difference from 25%

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

[AhmadCentral]

30% is quite a rounding from 26% recorded in 2014. The IDC forecasts 12% growth and several others forecast 10% growth at best so this quite a difference from 25%

Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!

Ah got you.

I was talking about up to 2014 and not 2015 where as you were talking about 2015 specifically.

Reason I got confused was because you used past tense so I thought you meant 2014 and before.

[DenverRalphy]

Active BlackBerry user base is now at 37 million.

Is this an official new announcement? Forgive me for not being up to date... literally just woke my computer after coming home from an afternoon of Fishing, so I haven't been following. If that's true... yowza bowza that's not good.

[trsbbs]

Right now I think Chen sees BB10 as a lost cause.

He will leverage Android to the max and as much of IOS as he can.

Again, he has NEVER promoted or praised it.

His action speak this loud and clear!





BlackBerry Z10 is now a backup to my M9!

[bb10adopter111]

I find the specs and benchmark conversation confusing, not because I don't understand it, but because I don't understand its relevance. If I needed to run a bunch of Android apps, I'd buy an Android device, and I'd certainly compare the specs, since it's an apples to apples comparison. But I want to run the BlackBerry OS, including the Hub and mostly native Apps, none of which are represented in the Benchmarks.

BB10 is a very efficient and responsive OS, and I would prefer any of the current crop of Blackberry phones (including the z10) as my daily driver over any other phone currently on the market. I have an iPad and a 7-inch Android tablet, and I Just don't get the allure of either. I just use them for testing web site display and functionality. Neither are very pleasant to use for more that a few minutes at a time.

Posted via CB10

[RH1Pearl]

I find the specs and benchmark conversation confusing, not because I don't understand it, but because I don't understand its relevance. If I needed to run a bunch of Android apps, I'd buy an Android device, and I'd certainly compare the specs, since it's an apples to apples comparison. But I want to run the BlackBerry OS, including the Hub and mostly native Apps, none of which are represented in the Benchmarks.

BB10 is a very efficient and responsive OS, and I would prefer any of the current crop of Blackberry phones (including the z10) as my daily driver over any other phone currently on the market. I have an iPad and a 7-inch Android tablet, and I Just don't get the allure of either. I just use them for testing web site display and functionality. Neither are very pleasant to use for more that a few minutes at a time.

Posted via CB10

And the Playbook is?

[LuvULongTime]

BlackBerry released 3 devices in FY2015 and sold 7 million units.
Apple released 2 devices for the whole of 2014 and sold 192 million units.

I'm not trying to compare Apple to BlackBerry here.

Just showing how ridiculously good Apple's sales figures are and how really quite disappointing it is for BlackBerry.

What were the three devices? Z3, Passport, and Classic? If yes, the last two were just released while the Z3 was for emerging markets and also overpriced next to better Android competitors. I'm not disagreeing with you at all, the numbers are pathetic, and Apple's are exceptional. BlackBerry can only hope that a steady supply of new and competitive models can help them regain some market share, especially in the USA.

[LuvULongTime]

If that trend continues, they might only sell 1 million per quarter FY2016. No wonder Chen has a desire to improve carrier relations. New models should help.

Bingo. They need a steady supply of new models coming down the pipeline as well as excellent relations with the carriers that are supposed to sell the phones.

Is anyone really surprised at these numbers considering they have had very little product at all, and what they did release was not really competitive with other manufacturers?

[Maxxxpower]

If I needed to run a bunch of Android apps, I'd buy an Android device, and I'd certainly compare the specs, since it's an apples to apples comparison. But I want to run the BlackBerry OS, including the Hub and mostly native Apps, none of which are represented in the Benchmarks.

Blackberrys future (and even its presence) are Android apps, as nearly nobody writes native apps. So this is totally relevant. Btw. the lack of performance (of nearly all BB10 devices) can be observed by using native apps (browser), too.

[ADGrant]

I find the specs and benchmark conversation confusing, not because I don't understand it, but because I don't understand its relevance. If I needed to run a bunch of Android apps, I'd buy an Android device, and I'd certainly compare the specs, since it's an apples to apples comparison. But I want to run the BlackBerry OS, including the Hub and mostly native Apps, none of which are represented in the Benchmarks.

BB10 is a very efficient and responsive OS, and I would prefer any of the current crop of Blackberry phones (including the z10) as my daily driver over any other phone currently on the market. I have an iPad and a 7-inch Android tablet, and I Just don't get the allure of either. I just use them for testing web site display and functionality. Neither are very pleasant to use for more that a few minutes at a time.

Posted via CB10

BB10 may be efficient and responsive but it has almost no third party app support. BB recommends installing Android apps from the Amazon store. Therefore specs and benchmarks relative to Android devices of a similar cost is very relevent.

[TGR1]

Bingo. They need a steady supply of new models coming down the pipeline as well as excellent relations with the carriers that are supposed to sell the phones.

Is anyone really surprised at these numbers considering they have had very little product at all, and what they did release was not really competitive with other manufacturers?

A steady supply of new models only works if you have a steady supply of customers. And what refresh rate are we talking about? Annually? I would hazard far fewer than 50% of users upgrade so frequently. Unless you have a substantial influx of new users to supplement the upgrading existing customers, each refresh would show a net loss of sales YOY. I don't think that is all that sustainable.

What is also troubling is that, 3-4 years into the transition, BBRY still apparently has a substantial number of BBOS users. That is a very slow conversion rate.

[LuvULongTime]

A steady supply of new models only works if you have a steady supply of customers. And what refresh rate are we talking about? Annually? I would hazard far fewer than 50% of users upgrade so frequently. Unless you have a substantial influx of new users to supplement the upgrading existing customers, each refresh would show a net loss of sales YOY. I don't think that is all that sustainable.

What is also troubling is that, 3-4 years into the transition, BBRY still apparently has a substantial number of BBOS users. That is a very slow conversion rate.

Slow BBOS conversion could be attributed to a lack of true BOLD 9900 successor (enterprise) as well as the loss of BIS on BB10 phones (emerging markets). Hopefully the Classic can grab a large chunk of the remaining BBOS users.

In terms of device refreshes, I see where you are coming from. I would be happy with a two year refresh cycle. BB could stagger the PKB and VKB every other year. But that would be so limiting. I could argue that a yearly refresh for both would also work. Current BB users may not want to upgrade 1 year old devices, but there would be users of other platforms that may want to take a gander over to BB. And if there is nothing new or interesting for them to buy then it becomes a lost sale before it ever had a chance. If they can produce new phones in the same manner that they did the Passport (spec and price competitive without over producing) then I see no reason why they can't do a yearly refresh.

[bb10adopter111]

I bet the product management team at Blackberry would gladly pay $10 million if they could somehow divine the ideal sustainable product release schedule that combines device refreshes with new releases to maintain their customer base, meet enterprise requirements and maintain a presence in the consumer market. Unfortunately, the data is likely not sufficient for them to do that with any degree of certainty.

Personally, I'd be very happy if they could afford to do the following:

1) Four core products, each on a two year refresh cycle, with a minor refresh in second year, plus an annual "concept" device available in limited quantities to foster research, win awards and generate buzz.

2) Annual Q1-Q2 release schedule and marketing push for all devices, aimed at the Enterprise and Entrepreneur market segments with modest messaging toward the general public (so as not to complete head-to-head with Apple and the other consumer electronics behemoths during the holidays) .

3) Frequent OS and native "core" app improvements (Contacts, Browser, Remember, etc.)

Sample release schedule:
EVEN YEARS
Major rev.
- Innovative Flagship VKB (a la Z50)
- Mid-tier Enterprise PKB (a la Classic)
- Limited Special Edition concept device

Minor rev.
- Innovative Flagship PKB (a la Passport)
- Mid-tier Enterprise VKB (a la z10/leap)

ODD YEARS
Major rev.
- Innovative Flagship PKB (a la Passport)
- Mid-tier Enterprise VKB (a la z10/leap)
- Limited Special Edition concept device

Minor rev.
- Innovative Flagship VKB (a la Z50)
- Mid-tier Enterprise PKB (a la Classic)



Posted via CB10

[Thesmartmale]

An important question for FY2016 will be whether first gen BB10 customers will stay loyal and replace their devices after 2 years of usage with newer BB10 devices or leave the sinking ship instead.

That will depend if Chen will give them an option to upgrade to, not make a slider and expect them to upgrade to it.

Posted via CB10

[Blacklatino]

IDK. Maintaining/improving relationships with carriers should have been a top priority for BlackBerry- especially as the new CEO after becoming responsible for cleaning up a mess initiated several CEOs prior to your reign. Probably wouldn't have hurt sales.

[AhmadCentral]

What were the three devices? Z3, Passport, and Classic? If yes, the last two were just released while the Z3 was for emerging markets and also overpriced next to better Android competitors. I'm not disagreeing with you at all, the numbers are pathetic, and Apple's are exceptional. BlackBerry can only hope that a steady supply of new and competitive models can help them regain some market share, especially in the USA.

Those are the 3. You can also add in the BlackBerry Porsche but lets be honest, that wasn't exactly a phone designed for the average consumer, more a special edition model.

Even though those last 2 were just released they still account for 6 months of sales on the Passport and 3 months of sales on the classic.

Not a direct comparison but Apple released two phones (iPhone 6 and 6+) and sold in 15 million in less than 10 days.....

So actually this argument isn't that valid tbh and 3 months on the market should be enough time for a boost in sales, not a drop in sales. Also BlackBerry shipped other devices through FY2015 like Z30 and Q10 etc...

Is this an official new announcement? Forgive me for not being up to date... literally just woke my computer after coming home from an afternoon of Fishing, so I haven't been following. If that's true... yowza bowza that's not good.

Yup, official number. Down from 41m 3 months ago.

[AhmadCentral]

IDK. Maintaining/improving relationships with carriers should have been a top priority for BlackBerry- especially as the new CEO after becoming responsible for cleaning up a mess initiated several CEOs prior to your reign. Probably wouldn't have hurt sales.

BlackBerry have lost a number of carrier relations and here in the UK some carriers decided to stop stocking BB10 altogether.

In emerging market carrier relations don't matter too much (Indonesia) but in the western market the carriers hold a lot of power and so the majority of consumers will buy their phone through their carrier. Even the carriers that range Blackberries no longer have staff that will recommend a BlackBerry to anyone due to lack of BlackBerry sell through incentives which they used to do years ago.

[dwisetyoaji]

I'm afraid to say that I found many apps haven't been updated since the early time of BB 10 OS.
Same apps on Android, but on BlackBerry never been updated.
Native apps always run better.

Great OS would never sell without having convenient ecosystem than good OS with convenient ecosystem.

Posted from CB10 with BlackBerry Z3

[Bbnivende]

I just wonder if Enterprise BB10 phones will have access to Work Google Play where the firm uses BES12 ( under the Google-BB Partnership). That would help BB10 sales a little.

[Blacklatino]

BlackBerry have lost a number of carrier relations and here in the UK some carriers decided to stop stocking BB10 altogether.

In emerging market carrier relations don't matter too much (Indonesia) but in the western market the carriers hold a lot of power and so the majority of consumers will buy their phone through their carrier. Even the carriers that range Blackberries no longer have staff that will recommend a BlackBerry to anyone due to lack of BlackBerry sell through incentives which they used to do years ago.

Yeah. It was never a secret about the carriers. I went thru it first hand when I actually went to my carrier(at&t) to buy a Z10 a few years ago. No BlackBerries on display- anywhere. We're still talking a few months after the launch. LOL. I made them go and find a display model, then skipped lunch while I waited for them to charge it, and enlighten me on the features of this device that I had already learned about months earlier on this site. I made them go thru the exercise because they did not want to even discuss the Z10 and continually tried to get me to buy yet another iPhone or a Samsung. Based on the shape of the Z10 box, I still believe they were using it for field hockey in the back. So, yeah, the carriers pushed BlackBerries all the way to the back of the storage area along with selling online and for sales- "out of sight....out of mind". Anyway, my point is, if everyone else knew when the decline started, then Thors and Chen knew as well before sitting in the hot seat as CEO. Both acknowledged a need for improved relations with the carriers. What was forgotten is the fact that BlackBerry needs the carriers and not vice versa.

[bitek]

An important question for FY2016 will be whether first gen BB10 customers will stay loyal and replace their devices after 2 years of usage with newer BB10 devices or leave the sinking ship instead.

I would get a passport in place of my z10. 10.3.1 is pretty awesome. Next year when my 3 year contract is up

Posted via CB10