[AtInsider]

To the OP

HELL YES. BlackBerry is 4 ALL.

Posted on my Q5

[21stNow]

1.not sure how google wallet works but it sounds like you're simply describing going to your PC later, signing in to google, and looking at your account. If BB had access to this account as the point of pay device, the effect would be the same.

2.Same for BB. When I switched phones all my apps just showed up.

3.IF BB (or any other phone) had access to google maps and you could sign into it, the effect is the same. You're describing an online service that is simply accessed from multiple points.

4. BlackBerry Travel does the same thing. So does TripIt.

5. There's a crappy google voice app for BBOS and BB10 that allows the same thing. Just used it last week to do exactly what you described. Again, you're simply describing accessing google, nothing more. Same for goes for Gmail. Easily accessed on other devices.

6. Google is an internet company that makes phones, so this is an obvious advantage for them. But can't you just use some other non-google service as a cloud?

7. Pretty much any google service can be accessed on pretty much any internet device, it's just that Android devices may have an advantage on native apps for some of these features.

Your original question asked what the other platforms' ecosystems allowed a user to do that BlackBerry didn't. Points 1, 3 and 5 are not available on the BlackBerry platform. Saying that "if" BB had access to the Google Wallet, Maps or Voice apps it could do the same thing is pointless because BlackBerry does not have access and therefore cannot do the same things.

The native apps are part of the OS' ecosystem. Accessing mobile websites will not give the same end-user experience (notifications, in particular) and integration as apps will.

You don't mention which Google Voice app you used, but I tried GVoice, which seemed to be the closest thing to an actual Google Voice app that I saw in BlackBerry World. I sent a text message from one of my other phones and did not receive a notification on the Z10. I have a Google Voice app that I may have sideloaded (It looks like the Android version of the app; I may have sideloaded it) and I can't get through the initial setup on this one.

If you describe the Google Voice app as crappy, do you think that any other Google Voice consumer would choose that experience over a "non-crappy" (official) Google Voice app?

[KR2013]

Right now, I would say that BB devices are not for the average consumer. The reason is not it's capability (or lack of). On the contrary, OS10 is pretty capable, and in many cases even more efficient than its competitors. The reason for not being a consumer device is a combination of the following:

- Apps limitation
- It is not Apple or Android
- Different/unique UI
- People's perception

It will be very difficult for BB to overcome these and compete with Apple/Android in its current form. There are two ways BB will get more market share, becoming an "average consumer" device:

1. BB comes up with a breakthrough function or UI that gets everybody excited (like what iPhone did), or

2. Becoming a niche player what gradually wins the heart of the people/media.

Looks like Chen has picked Option 2. I hope he succeeds because BB10 is truly a great OS, and with it's fantastic keyboards (physical or all touch), BB devices are hard to beat!

Posted via CB10

[--TommesJay--]

What do any of these questions have to do with BlackBerry? You asked leading, hypothetical questions but didn't connect them with some point you were trying to make.

I can tell you that I have families, friends and hobbies. I don't follow sports teams closely, but I follow other stuff that is in the news. I consume media for entertainment. None of those things are impacted because I use BlackBerry. I can communicate with friends and family (and do it faster and more efficiently and be more responsive) with a BlackBerry.

I can follow news and weather (my BB gives wx alerts and can decide how to do it based on holster profiles). I'm not 22, so I don't use my phone to "consume media", I have what is known as a television for that. Or a home theater. Or an mp3 player of some sort. Or even a tablet. But if someone sends me a video to watch, and I'm standing on an escalator and just can't wait to see the video, I can still watch it on my BlackBerry.

Ironically, someone sent me a .mov file to watch (an Apple snob / friend of mine) and I received it on my Ipod that I happened to be "consuming media" on at the time. The video made on a Mac in Apple's own file extension would not play on the Ipod for some reason. I reached for the older BlackBerry and it played there, albeit in a smaller window. Go figure.


What philosophy? You didn't state one.

Some very valid points here. Thanks.

Posted via CB10

[redlightblinking]

Your original question asked what the other platforms' ecosystems allowed a user to do that BlackBerry didn't. Points 1, 3 and 5 are not available on the BlackBerry platform.Saying that "if" BB had access to the Google Wallet, Maps or Voice apps it could do the same thing is pointless because BlackBerry does not have access and therefore cannot do the same things.

True., BlackBerry is not a web site and thus doesn't have online services like search or extensive mapping that it could tie more directly to it's own mobile OS. Actually number 5 is available, and the only reason others aren't is because nobody made an app. It's not because there is something going on that is exclusive to google...their data is right there if the app is written to get it.....like....say.....gmail. BlackBerry, and anyone else has access....its' simply data on the internet. It's all about how an app is written.

You don't mention which Google Voice app you used, but I tried GVoice, which seemed to be the closest thing to an actual Google Voice app that I saw in BlackBerry World. I sent a text message from one of my other phones and did not receive a notification on the Z10. I have a Google Voice app that I may have sideloaded (It looks like the Android version of the app; I may have sideloaded it) and I can't get through the initial setup on this one.

If you describe the Google Voice app as crappy, do you think that any other Google Voice consumer would choose that experience over a "non-crappy" (official) Google Voice app?

I don't remember the name, I think it's Gvoice...I deleted it because I found that I barely used it and could still get emails of the texts and respond from there if needed.

As far as a google voice consumer choosing, I think that's up to them, but this is not BB's fault, this is simply due to a lack of apps for this particular task that involves getting data from another company. Iphone would have the exact same issue. Maybe BB should get into the app making market.

[redlightblinking]

Right now, I would say that BB devices are not for the average consumer. The reason is not it's capability (or lack of). On the contrary, OS10 is pretty capable, and in many cases even more efficient than its competitors. The reason for not being a consumer device is a combination of the following:

- Apps limitation
- It is not Apple or Android
- Different/unique UI
- People's perception

Only number 1 would have any validity here. Simply "not being Apple or Android" doesn't make it a non-consumer device.

A different or "unique" UI doesn't make it a non-consumer device either. IOS and Android are different from each other. So...does that mean one is consumer and one is not?. For the most part, all phone OS' are basically the same, and there's not a lot "unique" about BB10 other than no home button. They all have screens of icons you touch to launch apps and you can slide between those screens to launch those apps. Only main differences are Android does widgets and BB10 has the Hub. Beyond that they are all basically the same in their basic operation, size and functions. Main difference is apps due to the chicken and egg issue that developers face.

People's perception of a product doesn't make it a non-consumer product either, it simply biases their thought process when considering the product for purchase. GM makes cars for the average consumer. If people's perception are that GM makes cars that are dangerous due to endless recalls, that doesn't change the fact that they are still cars for the average consumer. You are conflating two different issues.

It will be very difficult for BB to overcome these and compete with Apple/Android in its current form. There are two ways BB will get more market share, becoming an "average consumer" device:

1. BB comes up with a breakthrough function or UI that gets everybody excited (like what iPhone did), or

What was that breakthrough function again? Were you talking about Siri?

Breakthrough UI? Iphone? You must be kidding. They have the simplest and most basic UI that has barely changed since it's introduction and many of it's upgrades were flat out copies of other phones UI features.

or

2. Becoming a niche player what gradually wins the heart of the people/media.



Posted via CB10

How can becoming a niche player be the 2nd option to becoming an "average consumer device"? Those are 2 opposite things.

[RubberChicken76]

Breakthrough UI? Iphone? You must be kidding. They have the simplest and most basic UI that has barely changed since it's introduction and many of it's upgrades were flat out copies of other phones UI features.

I don't think this is what was said. The iPhone was very disruptive in 2007. It was a full on touch screen OS totally different from the all keyboard+click model that predated that offered a glimpse into desktop like browsing on the go.

Yes, it is 2014 and all the OSes out there do the same thing, but this was in context to the iPhone against 2007 BlackBerry OS, Symbian, Windows Mobile and Palm OS device and being disruptive then.

BlackBerry 10 is indeed a good, modern OS (IMO), but it isn't something "totally different and new" the way that the iPhone seemed in 2007.

[skstrials]

Symbian is the best mobile OS.

Posted via CB10 using Blackberry Q10

[redlightblinking]

I don't think this is what was said. The iPhone was very disruptive in 2007. It was a full on touch screen OS totally different from the all keyboard+click model that predated that offered a glimpse into desktop like browsing on the go.

Yes, it is 2014 and all the OSes out there do the same thing, but this was in context to the iPhone against 2007 BlackBerry OS, Symbian, Windows Mobile and Palm OS device and being disruptive then.

BlackBerry 10 is indeed a good, modern OS (IMO), but it isn't something "totally different and new" the way that the iPhone seemed in 2007.

No, I think that egg has already hatched. Iphone was the first touch screen phone with no keyboard. But that alone didn't create their dominance as others followed shortly after. It was the app issue and the marketing around that. I think BB has to look at what's missing from the experience and change it somehow.

[early2bed]

If I may use a PC analogy, when an average consumer comes up and asks what kind of computer they should buy, I tell them to consider Windows vs Mac because they are #1 and #2 in terms of market share and compatibility with whatever (software, peripherals, cloud stuff, etc.). For some people I will offer up Google Chrome as an option. I've never recommended Linux to anyone because I don't know much about it.

As the #4 platform in terms of market share, I can't recommend Blackberry to the average consumer. I wouldn't even mention it.

[bakron1]

As a business person, I like the BlackBerry platform and OS10 because it just works and improves my productivity and workflow.

But, I cant honestly recommended it to a person who friends all use IOS and/or Android and are used to the extensive ecosystem they have.

Although they may love some of the things that Blackberry does, in the end they will one day want an app that their friends are all using and is not available in Blackberry world and the Android version would require google services which Blackberry does not support at the present time.

In the end, I think Blackberry has become a niche device for the tech savvy consumer who understands it's limitations and is willing to give it a try.

Unfortunately that is a very small percentage of the market and unless the Blackberry OS will someday support google services or the app ecosystem dramatically improves, I am afraid to say, it's going to remain the same.
Sent from my lovely z30 on T Mobile USA

[redlightblinking]

If I may use a PC analogy, when an average consumer comes up and asks what kind of computer they should buy, I tell them to consider Windows vs Mac because they are #1 and #2 in terms of market share and compatibility with whatever (software, peripherals, cloud stuff, etc.). For some people I will offer up Google Chrome as an option. I've never recommended Linux to anyone because I don't know much about it.

As the #4 platform in terms of market share, I can't recommend Blackberry to the average consumer. I wouldn't even mention it.

So, what was the analogy? That you recommend things based on how many are sold? Sounds like you really know your products.

Imagine if you sold Mercedes and Mazda at the same dealer... "Sorry, we sell a lot more Mazda's....I just can't recommend this Mercedes."

[Bbnivende]

As a business person, I like the BlackBerry platform and OS10 because it just works and improves my productivity and workflow.

But, I cant honestly recommended it to a person who friends all use IOS and/or Android and are used to the extensive ecosystem they have.

Although they may love some of the things that Blackberry does, in the end they will one day want an app that their friends are all using and is not available in Blackberry world and the Android version would require google services which Blackberry does not support at the present time.

In the end, I think Blackberry has become a niche device for the tech savvy consumer who understands it's limitations and is willing to give it a try.

Unfortunately that is a very small percentage of the market and unless the Blackberry OS will someday support google services or the app ecosystem dramatically improves, I am afraid to say, it's going to remain the same.
Sent from my lovely z30 on T Mobile USA

I agree with you based on BlackBerry's current line up. If BlackBerry could make a really good all touch phone that is the same size as the new smaller iPhone 6 with a really good screen and camera but at a much lower price they might get some traction. There could also be a market for prepaid phones. A new Curve based on the 3.5 inch screen of the Classic. There is still a market for a phone that is mainly used as a communication device while not requiring a big data plan.

The lack of apps hurts but their phones are only now priced right at a discount.

Posted via CB10

[KR2013]

Only number 1 would have any validity here. Simply "not being Apple or Android" doesn't make it a non-consumer device.

A different or "unique" UI doesn't make it a non-consumer device either. IOS and Android are different from each other. So...does that mean one is consumer and one is not?. For the most part, all phone OS' are basically the same, and there's not a lot "unique" about BB10 other than no home button. They all have screens of icons you touch to launch apps and you can slide between those screens to launch those apps. Only main differences are Android does widgets and BB10 has the Hub. Beyond that they are all basically the same in their basic operation, size and functions. Main difference is apps due to the chicken and egg issue that developers face.

People's perception of a product doesn't make it a non-consumer product either, it simply biases their thought process when considering the product for purchase. GM makes cars for the average consumer. If people's perception are that GM makes cars that are dangerous due to endless recalls, that doesn't change the fact that they are still cars for the average consumer. You are conflating two different issues.




What was that breakthrough function again? Were you talking about Siri?

Breakthrough UI? Iphone? You must be kidding. They have the simplest and most basic UI that has barely changed since it's introduction and many of it's upgrades were flat out copies of other phones UI features.


How can becoming a niche player be the 2nd option to becoming an "average consumer device"? Those are 2 opposite things.

I think you completely missed my points. And FYI, Items 2 through 4 were mentioned as a sarcastic way of saying it is difficult for any device/OS to compete today if it is not tied to Apple or Android!

Posted via CB10

[redlightblinking]

As a business person, I like the BlackBerry platform and OS10 because it just works and improves my productivity and workflow.

But, I cant honestly recommended it to a person who friends all use IOS and/or Android and are used to the extensive ecosystem they have.

Although they may love some of the things that Blackberry does, in the end they will one day want an app that their friends are all using and is not available in Blackberry world and the Android version would require google services which Blackberry does not support at the present time.

In the end, I think Blackberry has become a niche device for the tech savvy consumer who understands it's limitations and is willing to give it a try.

Unfortunately that is a very small percentage of the market and unless the Blackberry OS will someday support google services or the app ecosystem dramatically improves, I am afraid to say, it's going to remain the same.
Sent from my lovely z30 on T Mobile USA

This is all BlackBerry's fault for not telling the world what they offer. Unless the educated consumer (tech savvy, whatever) already knows the ins and outs, people starting from scratch have nothing to go on in terms of what differentiates BlackBerry. But even if they've never had an Iphone, they've been inundated with ads and see them in use everywhere, so...of course they are comfortable going there even if perhaps they might benefit from BB...especially for keyboard use or streamlined communications.

[redlightblinking]

I think you completely missed my points.

Posted via CB10

So, what were your points? If I missd them....state them now.

. And FYI, Items 2 through 4 were mentioned as a sarcastic way of saying it is difficult for any device/OS to compete today if it is not tied to Apple or Android!

Posted via CB10

Oh......so you weren't actually making any additional points. No wonder I missed them. If were you *actually* saying it's difficult for any device/OS to compete if not tied to Apple or Android, then why did you start your statement by saying..." The reason for (BB) not being a consumer device is a combination of the following:..."?

[Bbnivende]

This is all BlackBerry's fault for not telling the world what they offer. Unless the educated consumer (tech savvy, whatever) already knows the ins and outs, people starting from scratch have nothing to go on in terms of what differentiates BlackBerry. But even if they've never had an Iphone, they've been inundated with ads and see them in use everywhere, so...of course they are comfortable going there even if perhaps they might benefit from BB...especially for keyboard use or streamlined communications.

I agree that the main reasons to purchase a BlackBerry are the physical keyboard and they way these devices will handle communications. Until the Classic and Passport are released they really have nothing to advertise except their discount pricing for the z30.

Posted via CB10

[21stNow]

As far as a google voice consumer choosing, I think that's up to them, but this is not BB's fault, this is simply due to a lack of apps for this particular task that involves getting data from another company. Iphone would have the exact same issue. Maybe BB should get into the app making market.

There has been an official Google Voice app for the iPhone for four years or so. I used Google Voice on an iPhone in the same way that I use it on an Android phone.

[Tre Lawrence]

So, what was the analogy? That you recommend things based on how many are sold? Sounds like you really know your products.

Imagine if you sold Mercedes and Mazda at the same dealer... "Sorry, we sell a lot more Mazda's....I just can't recommend this Mercedes."

If they were priced similarly, it is a compelling stat though.

[redlightblinking]

If they were priced similarly, it is a compelling stat though.

Not sure I understand what you were trying to say there....

[redlightblinking]

There has been an official Google Voice app for the iPhone for four years or so. I used Google Voice on an iPhone in the same way that I use it on an Android phone.

Exactly. This proves the point that Android/Google has no special lock on many if not most of the services mentioned, and thus the "platforms ecosystem" is only as exclusive as the apps created for any particular phone to access it.....it's just web data that someone needs to create an app for, and for Iphone....someone did. They did for BB too, just not very good for BB10. I used GVoice on my 9900 until they stopped supporting it.

[early2bed]

So, what was the analogy? That you recommend things based on how many are sold? Sounds like you really know your products.

Imagine if you sold Mercedes and Mazda at the same dealer... "Sorry, we sell a lot more Mazda's....I just can't recommend this Mercedes."

Well if I sold cars that ran on gas, diesel, and electric, I would show the average customer gas or diesel first. I would only mention electric if the customer asked about it. It wouldn't be based on how many are sold. It would be based on how most people use their cars and how convenient it is to get support (fuel).

As far as the Google and other cloud services go, there are easier ways to access them and harder ways. Harder can be a deal-killer for most consumers. If you've ever done tech support for family and friends then you know how painful each extra technical barrier can be.

[Superdupont 2_0]

BlackBerry OS 10 has the best GUI in the market, it is very easy and intuitively to handle.

Of course one has all the communication features to share content (messengers, e-mail, social media, dropbox... whatever)

The same is true for media: You can sync your BB with content of other ecosystems like iTunes, but you are never a prisoner of Apples wallet garden.

I think "the average user" will never use more than 60% of all the features that OS 10 has, so, yes, of course BB 10 devices are consumer phones.

[Tre Lawrence]

Of course one has all the communication features to share content (messengers, e-mail, social media, dropbox... whatever)

Not all. A lot, but not all.

[Superdupont 2_0]

Not all. A lot, but not all.

A lot is enough for the most consumers.

I know people who

- send 3-4 mails a week

- take 100 selfies a day

- making calls

... and that's it. They don't use their smartphones for anything else.

For a true geek this is probably not enough, but the average user won't miss a thing.