[masterful]

Iamagod, many people here don't really know what is the reason behind the design but we act like we do. The ratio this and that size of that... just wait for the official and stop making a foul of ourselves.
John chen reasons was people might be bored with their rectangle design but is that the only reason? We don't know well if he is holding anything back and don't want people to talk about it. As you aware that his management styles are very secretive and will not reveal anything until he got it right. I'm glad he is who he is because of the previous management was doing the opposite and caused a lot of harm.

1. Delay of launch date was a known for everyone
I'll let others fill in the rest of the past mistakes. I don't want to go on and on about the past but it looks like John and his new management team changing the tide and negative of the company

#BBFactCheck

[masterful]

Witmen, where did you come up with that? I wrote that for the user above me

#BBFactCheck

[Witmen]

Witmen, where did you come up with that? I wrote that for the user above me

#BBFactCheck

My apologies, quoted the wrong poster!

[AnimalPak200]

You can have a design patent for (duh) the aesthetic design (claiming nothing about its utility... just how it looks). Most of Steve Jobs' patents are design patents (designated with a "D" before the patent number). It's very likely that BlackBerry did file a design patent application specifically for the Passport design, but it hasn't been 18 months since that application date and thus hasn't been published.

Posted via CB10

[AnimalPak200]

Here's a search string on Google Patent Search that returns the corresponding design patents for the Q10, Z10 and Z30.

[masterful]

Thanks animals pack

#BBFactCheck

[sjwpenney]

LG already made a square phone that looks very similar to the Passport. The LG Vue and LG Intuition. Look it up, the thing looks just like a full touch BlackBerry Passport. Even the corners are sharp and the edges are flat. Someone at BlackBerry must have liked the Intuition, but not many consumers did. For its time, the LG square phone launched with good hardware and software, but it still flopped very badly. The Intuition exists because LG tried to make a Galaxy Note competitor that was unique and was on Verizon, so they went with a square instead of the usual rectangle. The result was a huge failure. Most reviewers loved everything about the device except for the form factor. Hopefully people still buy phones for physical keyboards and that will help the Passport.

Those phones definitely do not have 1:1 screen ratios - the may be wide screen but they are not square at all.

[iamagod]

Iamagod, many people here don't really know what is the reason behind the design but we act like we do. The ratio this and that size of that... just wait for the official and stop making a foul of ourselves.
John chen reasons was people might be bored with their rectangle design but is that the only reason? We don't know well if he is holding anything back and don't want people to talk about it. As you aware that his management styles are very secretive and will not reveal anything until he got it right. I'm glad he is who he is because of the previous management was doing the opposite and caused a lot of harm.

1. Delay of launch date was a known for everyone
I'll let others fill in the rest of the past mistakes. I don't want to go on and on about the past but it looks like John and his new management team changing the tide and negative of the company

#BBFactCheck

I hope you're right. Yea I've loved every single move Chen has made so far, except for the Passport. We'll see how it goes.

Posted via CB10

[Thunderbuck]

Iamagod, many people here don't really know what is the reason behind the design but we act like we do. The ratio this and that size of that... just wait for the official and stop making a foul of ourselves.
John chen reasons was people might be bored with their rectangle design but is that the only reason? We don't know well if he is holding anything back and don't want people to talk about it. As you aware that his management styles are very secretive and will not reveal anything until he got it right. I'm glad he is who he is because of the previous management was doing the opposite and caused a lot of harm.

1. Delay of launch date was a known for everyone
I'll let others fill in the rest of the past mistakes. I don't want to go on and on about the past but it looks like John and his new management team changing the tide and negative of the company

#BBFactCheck

I know exactly what the design rationale is behind the Passport, not in small part because BlackBerry has blogged about much of it.

Have you ever owned a keyboard BlackBerry? There's a nice little "thing" that I personally like a lot, even if nobody talks about it much: it's really nice to not have to turn the phone on its side for landscape (and let's put aside that you CAN rotate the Passport, okay? The point is you don't HAVE to). It can accommodate HD video in landscape and HD Android apps in portrait if need be, avoiding unfortunate scaling issues that render Instagram useless on a Q10 because a user can't reach all controls.

Combine that with a tricky keyboard that becomes a massive touchpad, and you have one of the more original handsets to hit stores in a while.

Posted from CB10 running on my awesome Z30 2B6927F7

[masterful]

@thunderbuck

Thanks for your time writing back to me. Yes, I have used BlackBerry keyboard phone and many of them as well but z10 is my first touch phone that i'm using now and i have to say that the touch keyboard are much better than iPhone or Samsung phones. I agree with most of your points about the passport and i will get one once it is available and until then i think people should wait before making a lot of judge mental about it. Sure we can speculate based on some leaks but other than that there aren't much to make a conclusion if it is a failure or not.

#BBFactCheck

[Adif_70]

I myself as a professional, welcome this format factor. A bit of a sacrifice for movies and even some games, however that is not why I am interested in the passport.

Perhaps once you look past the trivial stuff the more important things make total sense. Viewing documents such as word, excel and drawings will be much better especially with the 1:1 from and the high ppi. Also social media apps will provide an excellent experience on this form factor.

If I was in high school maybe I would worry about some black bars when watching a movie (I am past that now



Posted via CB10

[JeepBB]

I would like BlackBerry to patent picture password.

Microsoft applied for a picture password patent a few years back - using gestures on a lockscreen picture to login. I'm sure BB's version is sufficiently different to get around the patent wording, but they might be pushing their luck to try and patent it themselves.

[sonicpix]

If you have a link to the patent, I'd be interested to read it... the keyboard behaves in some ways like that of the PS3 controller keyboard add-on.... I wonder if the keyboard on the PS3 controller is licensed from BlackBerry?

Why don't you search the news items. I read it and posted comments. It's there.

BB Proud

[RyanGermann]

Why don't you search the news items. I read it and posted comments. It's there.

Thanks for your suggestion I will do that.

But if you have read it and therefore have the link handy, you might consider adding a post to this topic with the phrase "For those of you interested in reading the patents related to the Passport keyboard, here is (a / are) direct link(s) to the patent documents."

When I get some time to search and determine which patents in particular are those that relate to the Passport, I will return here and post the links, once I find them. But in the mean time, everyone else can also perform the search / false positive elimination and find them themselves using the "search" feature as well.

[Thunderbuck]

Microsoft applied for a picture password patent a few years back - using gestures on a lockscreen picture to login. I'm sure BB's version is sufficiently different to get around the patent wording, but they might be pushing their luck to try and patent it themselves.

BlackBerry's picture password is completely different (and easier, and more secure) than Microsoft's, though. It's distinct enough to patent and I would assume they have already.

[DocDRM]

I would like BlackBerry to patent a process that forces users to stop creating threads with misleading titles.


Posted via CB10, now from a Z30

[JeepBB]

BlackBerry's picture password is completely different (and easier, and more secure) than Microsoft's, though. It's distinct enough to patent and I would assume they have already.

You may be correct TB, I guess we'll know in a few years if BB get a patent. It took MS nearly 4 years to get theirs granted, so probably best not to hold your breath.

I had some minor contact with patents in my youth. What I recall is that the smart lawyers tried to word the patent to cover as much ground as possible... these were pharmaceutical patents, which not only mentioned protection of the specifics, but extended it to entire families of chemicals to ensure that any rival would have to use entirely different starting materials, and entirely novel synthetic processes to avoid infringement.

Now, I realise that picture password software isn't the same as drug synthesis, but assuming MS hired some good lawyers, my suspicion is that the MS picture password patent covers pretty much *any* gesture based manipulation of a lock screen picture for the purposes of authentication.

Guess we'll see, around 2018.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yes BlackBerry will patent the Passport. But a few minor changes is all anyone would need to bypass that very specific patent. The don't issue patents on such general factors as Square Phone. But I don't look for anyone trying to copy the Passport.... other than a few Chinese knock off OEMs.

[AnimalPak200]

You may be correct TB, I guess we'll know in a few years if BB get a patent. It took MS nearly 4 years to get theirs granted, so probably best not to hold your breath.

I had some minor contact with patents in my youth. What I recall is that the smart lawyers tried to word the patent to cover as much ground as possible... these were pharmaceutical patents, which not only mentioned protection of the specifics, but extended it to entire families of chemicals to ensure that any rival would have to use entirely different starting materials, and entirely novel synthetic processes to avoid infringement.

Now, I realise that picture password software isn't the same as drug synthesis, but assuming MS hired some good lawyers, my suspicion is that the MS picture password patent covers pretty much *any* gesture based manipulation of a lock screen picture for the purposes of authentication.

Guess we'll see, around 2018.

4 years is about the average (now down to 3 and bit years) for a patent application to be examined and allowed/abandoned/appealed, so that says nothing about the merits of the case aside from the fact that it relates to an area that has a high volume of applications.

You're right about attorneys trying to get broad patent claims, however trying doesn't necessarily mean they got them. If it does turn out the claims are too broad (based on the prior art), then it'll likely be revealed when they try to enforce it.

Here is what I believe is their original patent for it: https://www.google.com/patents/US8458485

And the first independent claim:



Posted via CB10

[JeepBB]

4 years is about the average (now down to 3 and bit years) for a patent application to be examined and allowed/abandoned/appealed, so that says nothing about the merits of the case aside from the fact that it relates to an area that has a high volume of applications.

You're right about attorneys trying to get broad patent claims, however trying doesn't necessarily mean they got them. If it does turn out the claims are too broad (based on the prior art), then it'll likely be revealed when they try to enforce it.

Here is what I believe is their original patent for it: https://www.google.com/patents/US8458485

And the first independent claim:



Posted via CB10

Thanks very much for posting that… Very informative.

I did laugh at the wording of the patent detail you posted – bigger words (as you'd expect from lawyers ), but basically boiling down to my "gesture-based picture manipulation mechanism for authentication" and it seems pretty broad and all embracing to me. Lawyers huh?, Gotta love them.

Based on that wording, I think BB would struggle to get their own patent on this, and may even be shown to have infringed MS's patent. If so, I doubt there's any mileage in MS taking this to court. It would cost them money, probably a considerable amount of money if the Apple/Samsung spat is any guide… And you have to ask what MS would achieve by that action.

IMHO, the Apple/Samsung legal battles were more to do with stifling a competitor by getting a judge to order their rival to remove products from sale than they ever were about protecting a patent. Frankly, given their market positions, I doubt Microsoft is worried enough about BlackBerry to justify spending the money on a patent battle even if they thought they would win (many, many months down the road).

[Ment]

IMHO, the Apple/Samsung legal battles were more to do with stifling a competitor by getting a judge to order their rival to remove products from sale than they ever were about protecting a patent. Frankly, given their market positions, I doubt Microsoft is worried enough about BlackBerry to justify spending the money on a patent battle even if they thought they would win (many, many months down the road).

Even if MS found BB infringing they would request BB license it just like it does for patents MS finds Android OEM infringe. Thats the MS MO and why they make more from Android phones than their own.

[--TommesJay--]

Attachment 286601

I just noticed that it looks like BlackBerry even copied the locations of the power button and volume rocker. That's pretty strange. Don't all current BB10 devices have the power button in the middle of the top? So why the change to off centered?

Lol. The button between vol up and vol down is the play/pause/mute button, while sleep/wake still sits on the top. And it's been like that since the Curve 8520 and Bold 9900 in 2011 lol. But not only that is ridiculous in your post. LG experimented with a 4:3 5" phablet, not too far of a stretch from the regular all touch slabs. Now BlackBerry comes up with an extra bold PKB device with a 1:1 screen and that is supposed to be a rip off of the LG Vu? I don't get it.

....just for the record: the Passports screen is still 5 mm wider than that of the Vu and seeing its resolution of 1024 by 768, it's pretty obvious that LGs idea behind it wasn't that original at all. What they wanted to build there was a miniature iPad to go after the Galaxy Note and they chose the aspect ratio since they saw how well it worked for Apple as an argument against Android tablets. Simple IMHO.

[Orange UK]

1:1 I'm pretty sure Star Trek production company probably patented that way back in the day lol

[MiSsY_]

4 years is about the average (now down to 3 and bit years) for a patent application to be examined and allowed/abandoned/appealed, so that says nothing about the merits of the case aside from the fact that it relates to an area that has a high volume of applications.

You're right about attorneys trying to get broad patent claims, however trying doesn't necessarily mean they got them. If it does turn out the claims are too broad (based on the prior art), then it'll likely be revealed when they try to enforce it.

Here is what I believe is their original patent for it: https://www.google.com/patents/US8458485

And the first independent claim:



Posted via CB10

Thanks for sharing, interesting read.
And yes you are 100% correct, if a patent is granted on too broad a basis, then when they first try to enforce it, will be when they will find out if they actually have an enforceable patent or a worthless scrap of paper.
I disagree with JeepBB's interpretation though, just from reading the screenshot from Claim 1, it actually sounds more like a pattern unlock, more like something you'd see on a Samsung.
The patent talks about portions/zones ie. there is more then one.
It also speaks about a movement or sequence of movements that could be stored as the unlock code.
Also mentions it as a lock/unlock code. Picture password only works the one way
Barely anything in that patent sounded like Picture Password to me.
Don't get caught up in all the lawyer speak, you need to think what the function is and break that functionality down into each little bit that makes it up.
Also bare in mind patents are normally filed before the public are even aware, doesn't mean the competition is not aware though, so a patent that explicitly detailed everything is also dangerous because it feeds that new idea/app/design whatever, to the competition who will release it before your patent is even granted = chaos and legal hell.

For a very very basic example (and yes we all know how to use picture password, this is an example for illustration purposes)
Picture Password is actually a 2 step user assigned verification (yes future bashers it is)
Step 1 selecting your digit
Step 2 selecting the location
Without either step the app no longer works
Actually making it quite different from function listed in the patent above
Still keeping it basic, but to make it sound a bit more "lawyerish"
Utilizing an image on a computing device to serve as a template for unlocking the computing device. The image includes an overlay with a plurality of portions and array where a singular specific portion together with a single selection from the array is defined by a user and presented to a user via a touch screen.
A user selects a single digit from predefined array overlaying the image and a location/zone on the image for the array selection that is defined within the image. The combination is stored as a unlock code for unlocking the computing device.

But I digress.... I'm sure this isn't what the thread topic was

Posted via CB10 from my Z30

[AnimalPak200]

What if I told you that you could interpret the image area below each of BlackBerry's picture password numbers as one of the plurality of non-overlapping, user selectable image regions?

That's how the game works...

In any case, it still wouldn't read on it as (1) BlackBerry picture password requires the selection of a digit and the placement of the selected digit on a predefined single image region, and (2) the MS claim requires the user selecting more than one image region.



Posted via CB10