1. pfiffi78's Avatar
    Hi,

    I got a BlackBerry Bold for my private use yesterday. I have already one (Curve) for work which works great when setup against a BES talking to Exchange. I can do what I would expect do to: file emails on the server, browse mails in other folders and see my sent emails in a 'Sent' folder.

    So now here's the disappointing story when using a BlackBerry for private email: You more or less rely on a BIS, quite a low spec version of BES I guess.

    All you get is new email. You can't browse your other IMAP folders nor do you even see them. Let alone that you could file an email or see your sent ones in a separate folder. No they are in your 'Inbox' unless you hide them. You can't even see emails that have been in your INBOX before you setup the account in BIS.

    Deleting an email in your desktop mail application does not really propagate through to the BlackBerry either, i.e. mails keep sitting on the device despite having the 'Sync deleted emails between device and mailbox' switched on.

    Overall, the BB Bold is a great device and a big improvement over the Curve, but I don't think that RIM has quite got it right to make the BB platform suitable for private email use. Please prove me wrong with my points above if they are wrong.

    Having also an iPhone 3G with MobileMe, I think it's really a better solution for private users. Yes, the MobileMe had quite a few hiccups at the beginning but Push works quite well now for Mail, Calendar and Contacts in both directions. And I can browser my IMAP folders, file emails etc.

    Am I doing something wrong, have I missed some settings on the BlackBerry?

    Thanks

    Daniel
    12-10-08 02:18 AM
  2. Keirkhaart's Avatar
    But isn't mobileme a paid service, equivalent to paying for exchange? If I wanted to do all of that on the bold I'd rent the services of an exchange server. Cheaper and less prone to fall over than mobileme.
    You can't compare one device failry against another device that uses a paid service. I thought (eventually) mobileme (when they get it working properly) was to be available for winmo and bb anyway, so if apple ever get their fingers out, we'll be able to compare a bold with mobileme against iphone with mobileme...
    A bold with mobileme vs bold with exchange rental would be worth seeing.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-10-08 03:18 AM
  3. pfiffi78's Avatar
    Ok. Let's leave MobileMe out of the equation. Then I still could setup my iPhone with a free Yahoo account that offers IMAP PUSH mail, ie mails are on the phone instantly, too. But still I have the freedom to browser my emails in other folders and look in the past. If I am on the road and need an email that is in another folder, you are pretty much stuck with a BlackBerry as a private user.

    I think you can clearly see where RIM is coming from with their Email solution: it's rock solid and works great in an enterprise environment but still needs a lot of tweaking to make it appealing to consumers.
    12-10-08 03:30 AM
  4. pfiffi78's Avatar
    I thought (eventually) mobileme (when they get it working properly) was to be available for winmo and bb anyway, so if apple ever get their fingers out, we'll be able to compare a bold with mobileme against iphone with mobileme...
    I am not negative about the Bold itself it's more the way RIM offers its mail service for consumers.

    Also, how could Apple possibly make MobileMe available for BlackBerrys if RIM has such a closed platform around its devices? You can't even setup a BlackBerry to directly connect to an IMAP server, so how would MobileMe fit in here then?
    12-10-08 06:14 AM
  5. rdsmith3's Avatar
    I use a BB for personal e-mail. I see your point about its limitations.

    The BB perspective seems to be that they presume that you also have a "base" computer -- your BB is not your only computing/e-mail/surfing device. I don't have any experience with an i-phone but I suspect they come at it differently.

    I did not buy the BB Curve for e-mail. I wanted something that would be able to synch with MS Outlook for calendar and tasks, and the BB does that very well.

    I do use the BB for getting e-mail from multiple accounts, and it works well for that purpose. If I did not also have a PC, then I would want a much better e-mail interface. For me, the BB is a mobile device, and I do not plan to spend hours using it for personal e-mails.
    12-10-08 01:13 PM
  6. weemdog's Avatar
    RDSmith 3 has it right, I think. RIM assumes you just want to be able to receive and respond to emails on your Blackberry while on the go, not actually manage them in folders.

    I have a number of different personal emails as well as work emails coming in to my Blackberry. It is nice to be able to read and/or respond to these emails on the go, but I don't try to manage my inbox on my Blackberry.
    12-10-08 01:37 PM
  7. howie's Avatar
    BlackBerry was designed around BES. BIS was offered for general consumers who wish to have email instantly pushed to them and offer the ability to respond to it on the go. That's it. It was not intended to be a mobile platform for your entire email history. If you want/need the functions and features of BES, upgrade your data plan.

    You cannot compare the BlackBerry to the iPhone saying "it does xxx". They are different devices that connect to email in different ways. And IMAP is not instant push. 1) it depends on a "heartbeat" to monitor for changes to the server and 2) when it sees that change it updates on the device by pulling the changes.

    By the way - I have no problem with my yahoo email address updating the "read" "mark unread" and "delete" both directions. Takes about 5-seconds to see the change.
    Last edited by cliffr39; 12-10-08 at 01:52 PM.
    12-10-08 01:43 PM
  8. JStiner's Avatar
    Only think I know of that is similar to what your talking about with browsing folders and what not is a Gmail account and download the Gmail app.

    I can get into all my folders and my arcived ...ect ect

    Only draw back what I'm saying only works for gmail.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-10-08 01:44 PM
  9. pfiffi78's Avatar
    You cannot compare the BlackBerry to the iPhone saying "it does xxx". They are different devices that connect to email in different ways.
    If you can't compare both, why do so many sites attempt to do so then? Why is RIM trying to position the Storm as a competitor to the iPhone? Clearly, the iPhone is mostly a consumer device, most companies have adopted the BlackBerry platform. So I don't think anything to worry about for RIM.

    Or maybe there is: The iPhone supports MS Exchange directly, ie you don't have to go via an additional third party server. I think that's where the threat for RIM will be. Because their business is the BES not the devices. The devices are just a means to an end. And Nokia already uses this argument in their ads, indirectly refering to RIM.

    So RIM will have to focus on the consumer market, because I guess that's where they still have potential. And with the Bold for example, they could certainly attract customer. But they need to massively improve the offering around Email for consumer.
    12-10-08 01:53 PM
  10. pfiffi78's Avatar
    RDSmith 3 has it right, I think. RIM assumes you just want to be able to receive and respond to emails on your Blackberry while on the go, not actually manage them in folders.
    I am less interested in managing my mails on the phone, ie filing them to different folders. I do that on my desktop. But back on the road, how are you able to look up an email you have moved to a folder? It's probably gone from you inbox on the device. You're stuck.

    I just feel, this whole BIS offering is not really a solution. It's something but nothing really that is competitive in the consumer arena. In the enterprise arena it's different, because BES offers this functionality. But at quite a high cost.

    Till recently, you couldn't even receive HTML based emails. RIM had to upgrade BES/BIS for it. This lets me wonder what they do with the emails?!

    They must actually process them instead of just passing them through, if BES/BIS would act as a proxy between the IMAP/POP3/ActiveSync world and the RIM proprietary protocol used between BIS/BES and the devices.

    In summary: I think RIM has a lot catch up work ahead. They have made a big step forward with the latest devices (though the Storm is a complete unusable device, a touch screen that is just not working) but now they need to improve the offering around what they are known for: Reliable Email on mobile devices.
    12-10-08 02:07 PM
  11. howie's Avatar
    Why is RIM trying to position the Storm as a competitor to the iPhone? ...The iPhone supports MS Exchange directly, ie you don't have to go via an additional third party server...
    Those are much better comparisons than just BlackBerries in general. The Storm was intended to be targeted as an iPhone competitor, not other BB's. And comparing the iPhone's exchange is more realistic than talking about the iPhone's yahoo IMAP thing which are different beasts. I'm not defending RIM, just saying that BES/BIS and IMAP are different. There are many devices out there that do things that other phones do not do. It would be nice if RIM allowed exchange accounts and to sync contacts/calendar wirelessly, but for now they only offer that via BES (I thought I read that they intend to do that down the road with BIS, though, but don't recall where/when I read that).

    Side note: perhaps since you have a BB on BES for work, you don't need another BB and would be wonderfully happy with the iPhone. I loved it when I had it, just not a touch-type kind of person. I need real keys. Then you would have the best of both worlds.
    Last edited by cliffr39; 12-10-08 at 02:12 PM.
    12-10-08 02:09 PM
  12. pfiffi78's Avatar
    I thought I read that they intend to do that down the road with BIS, though, but don't recall where/when I read that
    Would be good if they announced that within the next two weeks because by then I have to make a decision whether I return the BlackBerry or keep.

    I really like the device. I think the Bold is really great... It's these incomplete services, that make it hard to become convinced.
    12-10-08 02:28 PM
  13. Shao128's Avatar
    Just a quick tip for people that do want the ability to browse IMAP folders, it can be done through a 3rd party (free) application here: LogicMail for BlackBerry €“ Trac
    Last edited by Shao128; 12-10-08 at 03:33 PM.
    12-10-08 02:49 PM
  14. weemdog's Avatar
    It really depends on how you want to use it.

    Most BB users I know just want to be able to read and reply to emails on the go. They don't care about putting them in folders. They can just search easily within the inbox if they need to find something. So, the BIS offering works fine for most users.

    If you want to file messages in different folders to look at later, then yes, BIS will not work well for you.
    12-10-08 03:46 PM
  15. kentcy's Avatar
    I use hotmail. Whenever I feel a need to access my folders or junk mail etc. I just head to my hotmail inbox shortcut. It takes me right into my mailbox (I'm already authenticated) so I don't have to sign in and I peruse my folders to my hearts content. I actually prefer it this way so my BB doesn't get bogged down with all the many emails I get in a day.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-10-08 09:16 PM
  16. Spinny's Avatar
    It really depends on how you want to use it.

    Most BB users I know just want to be able to read and reply to emails on the go. They don't care about putting them in folders. They can just search easily within the inbox if they need to find something. So, the BIS offering works fine for most users.

    If you want to file messages in different folders to look at later, then yes, BIS will not work well for you.
    Exactly. BIS is just so you have the convenience of seeing new e-mails on the go and being able to respond to them. If you want some kind of wireless archive of all your old stuff and to be able to navigate them you really need BES, which is the corporate/business e-mail option. Alternatively, as was mentioned above, keep your e-mail on a web-accessible server. I personally don't keep any e-mail on a server, I make sure it's all downloaded onto my personal machine as quickly as possible. I don't like my mail archived under someone else's control. The price you pay is limited access to your archive; fine with me.

    If I get something I consider important onto the BB there's always the "save" option so you can file it in a different place for safer keeping and quicker access than scrolling through the inbox. If I have archived mail I think I might need on the go I just forward it to myself under my BB account before I go, then I can delete it again after it's no longer needed.

    Sometimes when you buy a hammer, it's not necessarily going to be very good at turning screws.
    12-11-08 06:38 AM
  17. buddhasystem's Avatar
    I am less interested in managing my mails on the phone, ie filing them to different folders. I do that on my desktop. But back on the road, how are you able to look up an email you have moved to a folder? It's probably gone from you inbox on the device. You're stuck.
    Yes you are. There are a few lively threads on this topic here.

    I tried LogicMail and it seems to work as expected, and give you IMAP folder access, but I need more experience with it to ascertain to its quality. One thing it doesn't do it to open the attachments. Otherwise it seems to be promising.

    RIM should at least give us a choice of direct IMAP access vs the push technology they use.
    12-11-08 12:02 PM
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