BlackBerry making huge mistake giving up on BB10 so soon!
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Posted via CB1010-07-15 09:06 AMLike 0 - I would argue they do have a long term strategy now, it's just not in mobile hardware. They have positioned themselves to be able to manage other platforms and provide enterprise and security solutions. If switching to Android keeps their hardware involved in this new direction, then great. Otherwise, I would imagine they will become exclusively a software company.
Posted via CB1010-07-15 09:22 AMLike 0 -
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How would you have felt if other companies had, say, written BBM clients for their OSs, with no BB involvement or licensing, back when BBM was the messaging king? BB fans (and BB themselves) would have been furious, and Cease & Desist orders would have gone right out. This is no different.
Read more here:
http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...-store-953753/10-07-15 10:10 AMLike 3 - Very simply, because Google Services belongs to Google, and you don't get to just take someone else's software or service and use it on your device as you like. You must license that software or those services, and Google has rules about what you can do with them, that are designed to reduce fragmentation of Android.
What would BB10's prospects be like if BB10 devices could access the Google Play Store, without having Google Mobile Services installed, and all apps in the Google Play store would be available and would run on ALL Android devices, but Google's own proprietary apps would NOT be available (Google Mail, Hangouts, Google Maps, Google Earth, etc)? What would BB10's fortunes have been, hmmm?
I'm just waiting for the FTC to wake up and deal with this, because calling it "anti-competitive" is a bit of an understatement with 83% global market share. (And no, I'm not going to debate whether or not 'free enterprise' justifies this behaviour: Google sued so Microsoft would have to let users choose Google Chrome for their default Web browser, so now that the shoe's on the other foot, I'm totally not interested in hearing how this is "justified" by Google because of their technical excellence or whatever: it's along the same lines as what Microsoft was doing that got the whole tech community up in arms, so defending Google because they 'aren't evil like Microsoft', is hypocrisy of the tallest order.)theone06 likes this.10-07-15 10:16 AMLike 1 - Google's Play Store and Google Services were never part of AOSP, and AOSP were never promised access to them. You act as if everyone is somehow "owed" access to the store and services that Google has spent billions to develop. That's BS! Google doesn't owe anyone access to the Play Store or Google Services on their devices. If you believe they do, how do you justify this belief? And why can Apple keep others out of its own store? How can Microsoft?TGR1 likes this.10-07-15 11:06 AMLike 1
- Google's Play Store and Google Services were never part of AOSP, and AOSP were never promised access to them. You act as if everyone is somehow "owed" access to the store and services that Google has spent billions to develop. That's BS! Google doesn't owe anyone access to the Play Store or Google Services on their devices. If you believe they do, how do you justify this belief? And why can Apple keep others out of its own store? How can Microsoft?
It's very conceivable that Google could be forced to make Play Services available to companies outside the OHA, or that the OHA could be forced to accept changes if it's found to inhibit free and open competition.
Once a company starts to acquire monopoly-type power, it is subject to anti-trust legal scrutiny. It's a fundamental consumer protection in a free market, because, by definition, unrestrained monopolistic powers inhibit competition, innovation, and, ultimately, consumers and the economy.
Posted via CB10app_Developer and Allanon89 like this.10-07-15 11:40 AMLike 2 - Google's Play Store and Google Services were never part of AOSP, and AOSP were never promised access to them. You act as if everyone is somehow "owed" access to the store and services that Google has spent billions to develop. That's BS! Google doesn't owe anyone access to the Play Store or Google Services on their devices. If you believe they do, how do you justify this belief? And why can Apple keep others out of its own store? How can Microsoft?
I get that you will defend Google's business practices 'til the bitter end, but at this stage, Google is using it's "monopoly position" in a number of lines of business to their advantage. The question is whether or not you believe Google has a "monopoly position" in any lines of business or not. If they are, what they're doing is subject to trade commission scrutiny.
Many high-profile apps can't really be defined as "Android Apps" if they won't run on "stock" Android: if they require GMS, they're "Google Apps" not "Android Apps". The fact that the Google Play Store itself has been "architected" to rely on GMS is itself an example of monopolistic behaviour in the same way that Microsoft CLAIMED (it wasn't actually true at the time) that the HTML rendering engine in Windows XP was "tied to the OS", when it was proven that it actually wasn't, then... but in the end it doesn't matter much what I think: it matters what the FTC and their analogues around the world think.
I think that would be going too far, technically "overreaching" like the judge who ordered Microsoft to be split into two companies, but on appeal that was adjusted to be "level the playing field in your Operating System products". What I think would be a 'fair' solution would be to decouple the Google Play store from Google Mobile Services (so any Android device would have access to the "monopoly" app store on Android) which of course would require a "google account" and google would make their revenue from the sales of paid apps etc.... the more thorny issue is apps that require the presence of Google Mobile Services to run. Perhaps Google would have do what Microsoft had to do: for every aspect of GMS, make it possible for users to choose, say, "Bing" for search, and Facebook for "advertising services" etc. I'm not going to solve the "problem" here, but it is a problem that I think needs solving.Last edited by RyanGermann; 10-07-15 at 12:07 PM.
10-07-15 11:57 AMLike 3 - Google's Play Store and Google Services were never part of AOSP, and AOSP were never promised access to them. You act as if everyone is somehow "owed" access to the store and services that Google has spent billions to develop. That's BS! Google doesn't owe anyone access to the Play Store or Google Services on their devices. If you believe they do, how do you justify this belief? And why can Apple keep others out of its own store? How can Microsoft?
And apple never was open source
Posted via CB1010-07-15 11:57 AMLike 0 -
Google is being very careful here... what they're doing may be perfectly legal from the FTC perspective: they're not going about it like Microsoft did, they may in fact be artful in how they're going to twist "Android" to be "Google"... what I also find disturbing is that one of the wealthiest companies on the planet is benefiting from the unpaid work of "open source" developers. It's just... slimy up and down. Yes, I use Google services, but ugh, I'm not a fan of Google Inc.
...but this has gone way off the original topic of what BlackBerry is doing to BB10: I've always said that there is a market for BB10 even without the Android Runtime... a small market, a possibly too-small market, but I don't think BlackBerry did much 'outside the box' thinking to try to keep BB10 going, they just kept trying the same wrong ideas over and over and to hardly anyone's surprise, it didn't work.
BlackBerry brought BB10 to where it is today because they just kept metaphorically grabbing their crotch, harder, and more often.
I hope the Slider running Android does well and that BlackBerry will see positive gains in share price and revenues. But those gains don't mean they "have" to ditch BB10, it just means they have to seek out BB10 users where they are, not continue to try to make BB10 over to be Android or iOS.Last edited by RyanGermann; 10-07-15 at 09:16 PM.
10-07-15 12:21 PMLike 0 - That's the part that bothers me... the grate "bait and switch" that was perpetrated by offering something for free to smartphone vendors to build market share (and let's face it, those early years of Android were VERY ROUGH. Early adoptors paid for it.) until it reaches it's current position of what is rumoured to be 83% market share... but over time, bit by bit, app vendors increase their reliance on GMS until SURPRISE, lots of apps aren't compatible with "open source" Android, or other Android-based platforms, not because those other Android devices or platforms have made huge branching changes to Android code, but just because Google's proprietary "services" aren't available.
Google is being very careful here... what they're doing may be perfectly legal from the FTC perspective: they're not going about it like Microsoft did, they may in fact be artful in how they're going to twist "Android" to be "Google"... what I also find disturbing is that one of the wealthiest companies on the planet is benefiting from the unpaid work of "open source" developers. It's just... slimy up and down. Yes, I use Google services, but ugh, I'm not a fan of Google Inc.10-07-15 12:32 PMLike 0 - I didn't read the whole post, just the four points, I didn't read the replies either but your just one person, my needs differ from yours. It is to be expected that mobile fans want different things. For point 1, I'm young in your eyes I believe, nearly 20 yet I own a passport and I love the keyboard. Would I move to a keyboardless phone? Yes if it was implemented better.
point two, although I think the keyboard market is niche, the priv, i.e. android with physical keyboard will generate more sales then bb10 with a keyboard in my eyes.
Point three, apps, Blackberry tried to get app developers to make apps but they weren't interested since the user base isn't big enough for them to think it's worthwhile. Keeping bb10 while trying to get more apps to the platform seems like an un achievable goal these days.
Point four, again, I don't believe bb10 with a keyboard is a big market, android with a keyboard is a bigger market in my eyes but I'm not convinced the user base will be big enough to save blackberry.
When they introduce the new device after the priv that features android with a full touchscreen, I may upgrade depending on how well the priv does and works, etc, assuming they kill bb10 or bb10 doesn't gain apps
Posted via CB1010-07-15 12:33 PMLike 0 - I'll toss in my 2 cents:
I have used all types of phones over the years going right back to the Motorola brick. I've used all the os' out there to.
And one thing that has been constant is my affection for BlackBerry and the physical keyboard. It's simply faster for me than any touchscreen including tablets.
So the new Priv. I'd love one but I'm leary of the Android side of things as I find the Lolipop os to be flakey.
Will this save BlackBerry? Sadly not as the path they're on is lacking to foresight and money.
I'll always be BlackBerry user right till the end as bb10 and the quality of the hardware can't be beat........yet. Jmo
Posted via CB1010-07-15 01:03 PMLike 0 - I didn't read the whole post, just the four points, I didn't read the replies either but your just one person, my needs differ from yours. It is to be expected that mobile fans want different things. For point 1, I'm young in your eyes I believe, nearly 20 yet I own a passport and I love the keyboard. Would I move to a keyboardless phone? Yes if it was implemented better.
Point three, apps, Blackberry tried to get app developers to make apps but they weren't interested since the user base isn't big enough for them to think it's worthwhile. Keeping bb10 while trying to get more apps to the platform seems like an un achievable goal these days.
This is a bit confusing to me: you ARE a BB10 user: are you happy with BB10? Are you pining for a full touchscreen device OR the slider that has a full large touchscreen and a keyboard or are you fine with your Passport but just wish it had more apps? I'm kind of confused, but the point of making BB10 available on the slider IN ADDITION to Android, NOT as a separate device but being possible to install OVERTOP of Android to REPLACE Android, that's the approach I think is feasible, based on many BB10 fans loyalty to the BB10 platform, which is often tied to dislike of Android (for many reasons, again, articulated in previous posts in this thread.)10-07-15 01:41 PMLike 0 - 10-07-15 02:27 PMLike 0
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- OK. Where is the proof of new features or phone? BlackBerry has told BB10 developers to target other platforms. BlackBerry stopped moving forward on developing BB10/Cascades/Qt. Our BlackBerry sales rep said that they are only going to have Android phones moving forward. How much more proof do you need?10-07-15 02:54 PMLike 0
- OK. Where is the proof of new features or phone? BlackBerry has told BB10 developers to target other platforms. BlackBerry stopped moving forward on developing BB10/Cascades/Qt. Our BlackBerry sales rep said that they are only going to have Android phones moving forward. How much more proof do you need?
Should I believe what Jobs Chen said or some Unnamed sales rep.... hmmm...
Posted via CB1010-07-15 03:48 PMLike 0 - The companies have to take decisions to survive, fast and in the right moment, and this is what blackberry doing, Look Nokia, Palm, Great in the Past, now dont exist as Device vendor.
BlackBerry boarded the training of touch devices too late and is paying that.
Posted via CB1010-07-15 03:48 PMLike 0 - Agreed. BB 10 is a mature OS that does what it needs to do rather well. Yes some apps are not available, but I would never go back to Android with all its immature problems. If you compare how long Android has been around vs how long BB10 has been around: BB10 is so much more mature and reliable !
It is just BB is not listening to its customer base: e.g. hardware with removable large batteries and larger screens, not exactly something out of the ordinary is not available ! If you look at eg ELEPHONE P7000: very large removable battery, very large screen, excellent camera specs, dual sim, memory card slot etc etc, just the OS is Android, which is a no-go professionaly IMHO. The same phone, build by BB would be a huge success in my mind (and that of many others). BB does not need to imitate the iPhone, but it does need to take better care of its customers and listen and understand their needs: when I eg state removable battery is a requirement, this is a professional need: I pop a fresh battery in in the morning, and one when I leave the office (no, no time to charge and even if there might be time, this cannot be counted on), then a fresh battery at home and 2 spares at all times, so how can I possibly work with a build in battery ??? Anyone ??? As a result of this I am stuck with a Z10 as no higher spec is available (or I need to start swapping sim cards, not something I am a big fan of). So how about it BB ?
With me are many other managers and professionals that work for or in large companies: we need to be available 24/365, no exceptions. And conversations may last a few hours, with intermittent emails expecting follow ups and replies when not in the office, so again, charging is not a given and can simply not be counted on.
I love BB because of the reliability of the OS and the hub which simplifies life. BB 10 is great of email and phone calls, it is a pure business product. Yes it does not have eg citymapper (which would be handy but is build on google play - puke puke) and the camera could be 10x better, but it does the basic stuff extremely well and it is re-li-a-ble, and that is a must !
No please go off and make me a Z40 with a removable battery and BB10 - I'll take two (black, white, red and maybe add another color).
ThanksSkidoo583 likes this.10-07-15 03:51 PMLike 1 -
Sent from my ASUS_Z008D using Tapatalk10-07-15 03:54 PMLike 0
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