1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    So basically a BlackBerry isn't a smartphone?
    BelfastD, it's nearly 2015 by now...
    It shouldn't be that hard to understand the market by now.

    And the myth of the BBOS power user who makes up an important size of the market, who is so special and exquisite in his choices, that only a BlackBerry can satisfy his needs, is exactly what I said with the 3rd word of this sentence: a myth.

    You're using an iPhone now, right?
    You survived, right?
    Your business didn't have to close its doors, because you don't use a BlackBerry anymore, right?

    Seems as though your iPhone does your BBOS BlackBerry's job well enough.

    No, the iPhone is crap for my business, if it didn't fall in my lap for free I wouldn't be using one right now, remember I upgraded to a Q10 but I had to stop using it after the deleting bug happened. I would go as far as saying my business has suffered because of the iPhone and BB10, both are a real handicap when trying to find an address out in the country on 2G.

    I miss BBOS badly but at the moment it would cost me an extra �5 on top of an already expensive �40 monthly contract. As soon as it's over I will go back to a BIS contract.
    12-27-14 07:11 AM
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Where did the 9720 sell? It was released in the UK if I remember correctly. Are there numbers to compare sales of the 9720 to sales of the Q10? Both physical keyboard, one BB7 if I recall, and the other a physical keyboard BB10. Same general time frame.
    I don't think the average customer buys specs. They buy usability.
    Which did the UK adopt more readily?

    Sent from my gorgeous sexy white BEAST of a Note 4 ❤
    The 9720 was simply crap, it tried to run BB7 on 9700 specs, very very slow, I don't know what BB were thinking with it.
    AllanQuatermain likes this.
    12-27-14 07:13 AM
  3. qbnkelt's Avatar
    The 9720 was simply crap, it tried to run BB7 on 9700 specs, very very slow, I don't know what BB were thinking with it.

    No, the iPhone is crap for my business, if it didn't fall in my lap for free I wouldn't be using one right now, remember I upgraded to a Q10 but I had to stop using it after the deleting bug happened. I would go as far as saying my business has suffered because of the iPhone and BB10, both are a real handicap when trying to find an address out in the country on 2G.

    I miss BBOS badly but at the moment it would cost me an extra �5 on top of an already expensive �40 monthly contract. As soon as it's over I will go back to a BIS contract.
    Then by all indications it appears that you will be returning to a 9900. BlackBerry does not appear to be entertaining a new bbos device. And if they do the market will skewer them.
    Your need case is for a product that seems to be phasing out. Your choices are to either move forward with what is being planned or stock up on 9900 devices. You predicted a new BBOS device which turned out, in your own words, to be crap. I don't see indications that they will repeat that blunder. And if they do then the treatment they would get would be deserved.

    Data is becoming increasingly cheaper. I believe some European carriers are doing away with roaming, if I read correctly. The justification for BIS is lessened. Even the folks on the forum who wanted BIS to remain have moved on. Folks had several suggestions for you regarding the email issue you had, which I remembered had to do with the way BB10 handled your email early on and if I remember correctly was subsequently fixed.

    These are arguments that are two years old. BlackBerry can't cater to a niche (BIS) within a niche (physical keyboard) without extending precious resources to where there is not enough return for the investment.




    Sent from my gorgeous sexy white BEAST of a Note 4 ❤
    Last edited by qbnkelt; 12-27-14 at 08:21 AM. Reason: Corrected bbos
    TgeekB likes this.
    12-27-14 08:10 AM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    And BlackBerry made large screen BB10 devices, how are they selling?

    There are things people want from a smartphone and there are things people want from a BlackBerry, there's a difference
    Are you saying that had BlackBerry kept its small screens that it would have sold better?
    I'm sorry this is so convoluted I can't even go there.

    Sent from my gorgeous sexy white BEAST of a Note 4 ❤
    kbz1960 likes this.
    12-27-14 08:20 AM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    No, the iPhone is crap for my business, if it didn't fall in my lap for free I wouldn't be using one right now, remember I upgraded to a Q10 but I had to stop using it after the deleting bug happened. I would go as far as saying my business has suffered because of the iPhone and BB10, both are a real handicap when trying to find an address out in the country on 2G.

    I miss BBOS badly but at the moment it would cost me an extra �5 on top of an already expensive �40 monthly contract. As soon as it's over I will go back to a BIS contract.
    But your extra BIS plan costs should be tax deductible for business use which equals one less pint of beer a month. You could sell the iPhone and buy a couple of 9900's. If you are more productive on a Blackberry you would actually make more money.
    12-27-14 09:01 AM
  6. ADGrant's Avatar
    "Legacy OS diehards?" There's no such thing. That's like saying there a group of diehard PC users wanting MS to release a new version of MS-DOS. That's like saying there a group of portable music fans waiting for RCA to release a new 8-track tape player. That's like saying there's a group out there waiting for Sony to start selling CRT TVs again. That's like saying there's a group of car buffs waiting for Ford to release a newer version of the Model T.

    I think you get my drift.

    The Classic will be an utter failure. Why? It's $450 for something that was popular like 6-7 years ago. You can get a awesome Android phone $300, or less and you don't have to do that ridiculous sideloading to install apps. Sorry, but BlackBerry no longer has the brand recognition to charge a more for less.
    The Chairman of Google still uses a 9900, so do many other execs, bankers, lawyers and Celebs (some of who stockpile spare 9900s).

    I would not call these "diehards". I would call them BBs core customers.
    12-27-14 10:08 AM
  7. ADGrant's Avatar
    Are you saying that had BlackBerry kept its small screens that it would have sold better?
    I'm sorry this is so convoluted I can't even go there.

    Sent from my gorgeous sexy white BEAST of a Note 4
    I think if the Q10 had looked more like the Classic with the toolbelt it may have sold better. Ignoring want your core customers want is what Palm did with WebOS and look how that turned out.
    12-27-14 10:17 AM
  8. anon(13322)'s Avatar
    Now, if only BlackBerry could drop the price for $499 to...$225ish, then I'll be all over it. Kinda wish they had done that for the few days.
    12-27-14 10:23 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The Chairman of Google still uses a 9900, so do many other execs, bankers, lawyers and Celebs (some of who stockpile spare 9900s).

    I would not call these "diehards". I would call them BBs core customers.
    And I'm sure they'd all upgrade if they had something to upgrade to but they don't. Eventually they'll have to move to something else and I'm pretty sure it's not gonna be BB10.
    12-27-14 10:23 AM
  10. AllanQuatermain's Avatar
    I think if the Q10 had looked more like the Classic with the toolbelt it may have sold better. Ignoring want your core customers want is what Palm did with WebOS and look how that turned out.
    Q10 should have been 9900 replacement, but no Trackpad and function keys, Classic has fixed battery and no charging dock contacts, and the 9900 keyboard still the best one missing on Q10/ Classic, a new phone looking like 9900 and running BB10 then our 9900's would have been retired but they will continue in service, maybe a Classic 2 will finally be a 9900 with BB10 OS and the missing features, unlikely so another year on bbos7 and still doing the job they were designed for, i have a Z30 for personal use and it's excellent for media and web browsing so am not anti BB10, yes Palm and webOS i still have the phones in working order and they ignored their core customers and they are sadly history.
    12-27-14 12:20 PM
  11. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    I don't see the Classic being a big hit in the United States. All adopters, early and late are deeply embedded in apple and android. I just don't see a mass exodus to a device with half the screen area.

    Posted via CB10
    Lol with every new release everyone wants to paint themselves in a corner and say "This will be the hottest selling device."

    First the Z10 "It will kill the iPhone."

    Then the Q10 - "Well the Z10 didn't do it because it didn't have a qwerty keyboard, THIS device will be the hottest seller."

    Then the Z30 - "This is the ONE!! The Z10 didn't appeal to the users wanting a large screen and a bigger battery, it will without a doubt be the hottest seller ever!"

    Then the Q5 - "BB has a huge market wanting a lower cost BB, this phone is going to sell like crazy!"

    Then the Z3 - "The Middle Eastern market loves BB, the sales are going to go through the roof!"

    Then the Passport - "It will sell 1,000,000 at launch, this is going to be BB's best seller ever!"

    Now its the Classic - "Even though we've all said that buttons are outdated on a phone and no one wants them, we weren't talking about the toolbelt crowd that will flock to it, its going to be THE BIGGEST SELLER IN HISTORY!!"

    Let BB worry about sales numbers. They themselves have said they are just trying to find a niche audience and are just now regaining their identity. If the Classic doesn't perform, I guess they will try again, but the constant "This device is going to be the biggest seller ever" threads with every new release has reached comedy at this point.
    Predictions of huge Classic sales are extremely optimistic. With that said, I truly believe there is approx 5% of the global market that does want a keyboard phone. Many of these folks left BB because BBOS was truly horrid compared to iOS and Android. They didn't leave because keyboards are like 8 track players. BB10 is a vast improvement over BBOS and is only getting better. Folks that appreciate typing on a physical keyboard may be tempted to come back knowing they now have a modern OS and some semblance of apps to choose from.

    According to IDC, 335m smartphones shipped in Q3 of 2014. If BB can capture 5% of that market, that would be close to 17m devices in one quarter. If Classic sales are decent, and there is actually a small sliver of folks that want a keyboard phone, then Chen should consider bringing back the Bold as a BB10 model with Passport like specs and features and keep the Classic as the new Curve.
    12-27-14 12:32 PM
  12. ADGrant's Avatar
    And I'm sure they'd all upgrade if they had something to upgrade to but they don't. Eventually they'll have to move to something else and I'm pretty sure it's not gonna be BB10.
    I am pretty sure than the Chairman of Google has tried a few Android phones. I am equally sure that what keeps him on. 9900 is the keyboard and toolbelt, not BB7.
    12-27-14 01:10 PM
  13. donnation's Avatar
    I am pretty sure than the Chairman of Google has tried a few Android phones. I am equally sure that what keeps him on. 9900 is the keyboard and toolbelt, not BB7.
    How are you pretty sure, do you know him? Maybe he only wants a phone for email and messaging and BBOS suits him. I highly doubt he is browsing the web on the 9900 so it's very likely that it is BBOS keeping him on it.
    12-27-14 01:18 PM
  14. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I like your Bold idea . The Passport screen is amazing. Can they make 1440 X 1440 resolution on a 3.5 inch screen ? Personally I can manage fine without the tool belt but the new Bold has one then the trackpad has to be back lit and be the same size and feel as the 9900 trackpad.

    BlackBerry phones are only selling well in a small number of markets. Selling unlocked phones direct to consumers might work if the Classic was sold at almost no margin. In order to get any kind of traction in markets like the USA and the UK , BlackBerry would have to spend a lot of money to create demand through advertising and carrier incentives. Their situation is not like the baseball diamond in the Field of Dreams, "If they build it, they will come".

    Hope I am wrong.
    12-27-14 01:30 PM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    How are you pretty sure, do you know him? Maybe he only wants a phone for email and messaging and BBOS suits him. I highly doubt he is browsing the web on the 9900 so it's very likely that it is BBOS keeping him on it.

    And do you know him ? Is it easier to send a text or e-mail under BBOS ? Really ?? I have seen BBOS users who never touched their screen at all. They just used the trackpad. Maybe your buddy Eric is one of them.
    12-27-14 01:37 PM
  16. donnation's Avatar
    And do you know him ? Is it easier to send a text or e-mail under BBOS ? Really ?? I have seen BBOS users who never touched their screen at all. just used the trackpad. Maybe your buddy Eric is one of them.
    Lol I never claimed to or claimed to know what he does with his phones. My point was if he only cares about messaging then maybe BBOS is all he needed. Take a breath, there isn't anything personal about it.
    12-27-14 01:40 PM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    And do you know him ? Is it easier to send a text or e-mail under BBOS ? Really ?? I have seen BBOS users who never touched their screen at all. They just used the trackpad. Maybe your buddy Eric is one of them.
    Yes, I think it's far easier to do rmail in BBOS.

    But perhaps he likes BBOS email filters, perhaps he likes to see when his emails are received and/or read, maybe he even uses the @blackberry email account.

    Who knows why but the point is he is using BBOS, always has.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    12-27-14 01:43 PM
  18. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Lol I never claimed to or claimed to know what he does with his phones. My point was if he only cares about messaging then maybe BBOS is all he needed. Take a breath, there isn't anything personal about it.
    Take a breadth yourself .. AD Grant never pretended to know the Google Chairman either and his post actually employed some logic and was not self contradicting "I highly doubt he is browsing". I find it pretty peculiar that some folks think that the best attribute of the 9900 was BBOS when most people abandoned the 9900 because of BBOS. (I know I did).
    12-27-14 01:50 PM
  19. Tamellingham's Avatar
    I think you've nailed it there. People might have be excited about the Classic ...
    They may have been holding off for years, sticking with their legacy BlackBerrys - and - when they finally see the Classic and it's mweh - and they realise they can get an iphone 5 for the same price...

    Posted via CB10
    12-27-14 03:05 PM
  20. donnation's Avatar
    Take a breadth yourself .. AD Grant never pretended to know the Google Chairman either and his post actually employed some logic and was not self contradicting "I highly doubt he is browsing". I find it pretty peculiar that some folks think that the best attribute of the 9900 was BBOS when most people abandoned the 9900 because of BBOS. (I know I did).
    I hated BBOS. You aren't getting my point at all. He said he's pretty sure he uses the Bold because of the tool belt. I said that might not be the case. If he's using a 9900 he is most likely not browsing the web because the web browser is a joke (and you should know that the 9900 isn't a phone he uses exclusively among the Android phones he uses). He most likely uses it for messaging ONLY because that's what BBOS was best at. Implying that all users of a legacy device only use those devices because of the toolbelt is ridiculous. Many people still use it because they are comfortable with the OS and the biggest reason cheap BIS plans.
    12-27-14 03:36 PM
  21. ADGrant's Avatar
    How are you pretty sure, do you know him? Maybe he only wants a phone for email and messaging and BBOS suits him. I highly doubt he is browsing the web on the 9900 so it's very likely that it is BBOS keeping him on it.
    Well aside from the photos of him in the press using various Android devices there is the small detail that he is the Chairman of Google, the company that created Android. You may of heard of them.
    12-27-14 04:11 PM
  22. ADGrant's Avatar
    I hated BBOS. You aren't getting my point at all. He said he's pretty sure he uses the Bold because of the tool belt. I said that might not be the case. If he's using a 9900 he is most likely not browsing the web because the web browser is a joke (and you should know that the 9900 isn't a phone he uses exclusively among the Android phones he uses). He most likely uses it for messaging ONLY because that's what BBOS was best at. Implying that all users of a legacy device only use those devices because of the toolbelt is ridiculous. Many people still use it because they are comfortable with the OS and the biggest reason cheap BIS plans.
    Maybe he likes to make phone calls. Much easier when your phone has dedicated phone keys. I doubt he is worried about cheap BIS plans. I am sure his Google stock is worth something.

    Of course he is only using the 9900 for messaging. That's the only thing BBOS 7 is any good for. However all smartphones can do messaging now.
    12-27-14 04:15 PM
  23. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    No, the iPhone is crap for my business, if it didn't fall in my lap for free I wouldn't be using one right now, remember I upgraded to a Q10 but I had to stop using it after the deleting bug happened. I would go as far as saying my business has suffered because of the iPhone and BB10, both are a real handicap when trying to find an address out in the country on 2G.

    I miss BBOS badly but at the moment it would cost me an extra �5 on top of an already expensive �40 monthly contract. As soon as it's over I will go back to a BIS contract.
    You should be moving to the Blackberry classic..

    Seems you crave nostalgia too much...

    ... from my awesome Passport

    Posted via CB10
    12-27-14 04:16 PM
  24. Alain_A's Avatar
    You should be moving to the Blackberry classic..

    Seems you crave nostalgia too much...

    ... from my awesome Passport

    Posted via CB10
    no,, he wants the BIS back
    12-27-14 04:19 PM
  25. ADGrant's Avatar
    no,, he wants the BIS back
    Even though he doesn't actually use it.
    12-28-14 08:26 AM
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