- CrackBerry User
02-14-13, 12:43 AM #76
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US Carriers may be kicking themselves but I think that they are gauging on how the Z10 will do in the other markets and it seems to me that the Z10 are doing EXTREMELY WELL. I don't think the demand will slow down anytime soon (seeing how some stores are still sold out and the demand for them are still going strong), so by the time the US carriers roll out the Z10 to the US consumers, the snowball will just keep getting bigger and bigger. Like I said, the demand is still going strong. So, a month or two wait won't be a big deal. If consumers demand it, they will wait for it.
This is just my opinion and observation based on recent news reports. I have no definitive proof other than what I have read in the news.
- 02-14-13, 12:55 AM #78
- 02-14-13, 01:39 AM #79
If T-Mobile is busting their humps to get the Z10 to market a few weeks before their competitors, well, good for them, because that might make some people switch. I don't think they'd be doing that if they didn't have that kind of confidence that the Z10 was a draw, rather than "meh".
All I can say is that I am engaged with my Z10 in a way that an iOS or Android device simply has never been able to do. It is an excellent device with an excellent OS. And the critics agree. It has the pent up demand, a lot of people who are on Android and iOS looking for alternatives, it's got quality, it's got a reasonably-stocked app store. It is truly a competitive device. It goes toe to toe with the best iOS and Android devices. Some of that is subjective, but there is plenty of objective evidence that makes a "failure" of the Z10 very unlikely. BB's marketing team have to keep getting the word out and make sure when devices are available in the US, that those who are inclined to check it out are aware of that.
There's nothing new in iOS or Android. Nothing to "check out". There are people who already KNOW they're going to buy an Android or iOS device. Or they're already using one and either NOT going to consider a Z10, or they are. There are 10s of Millions of people who could reasonably buy a new device in the next quarter, and there are plenty of reasons why they should consider a Z10.
Sometimes I think people who insist because no hard numbers have been released that we can't accept that BB10 / Z10 is a 'success' are just, I don't know, sphincters. You know what I mean. You can also say right now: "Star Wars VII isn't necessarily a success, because it's not out yet." Well, yeah, but there is a lot of data out there that supports the notion that Star Wars VII will be a success, and I don't need to see the box office receipts NOW to know that it will be.
Some people. Sheesh.
- 02-14-13, 06:19 AM #80
I personally think that Google Now is definitely something to "check out" on Android. With Mobile World Congress and the launch of the Galaxy S4 in mid March, I think that is going to steal a great deal of the Z10's thunder. I don't think people outside of the US understand how big the stranglehold that IOS and Android have on the market here. I am the only person that I know of that is paying attention to the BB10 launch. I asked about half a dozen people yesterday and nobody knew anybody with a BB. Of course, this is just personal experience, but I think the general perception of BB is not good here. I hear people on here say that BB is really popular with teens in their country and it seems like another world to me. My son is in high school (central FL) and he told me that he doesn't know a single person with a BB and it is generally looked down on. This is just one former BB user's observations and ,like I've said here before, if this came out 2-3 years ago, I would probably still have a BB.
- 02-14-13, 07:39 AM #81
Well I can tell you categorically, from both 2nd-hand and personal experience (ie watching and listening with my own eyes and ears) that mobile sales clerks do exactly that here. As others have mentioned, people have some seriously entrenched biases - regardless what their employer might be pushing or not pushing.
Thing is, based on my 9650, that criticism is not without foundation. GPS dies after a few days and requires a reboot or battery-pull, laggy OS "stopwatch of doom", interminable reboot times, crappy application install/uninstall procedure that takes forever, horrific browser, poor 3rd-party app support, blah blah blah.
Yanno, there's lots of things I love about Blackberry, even the legacy Java-ME versions. But not all the criticisms are without foundation, far from it. The problem now is that the cultural lemming effect has placed a really high barrier to Blackberry shedding that bad perception, and the tech punditocracy and their kneejerk critical piling-on has a lot to do with it too.
I was just reading a discussion on a social network I'm on where a Canadian asked people what he should buy "Apple or Android". Note he's Canadian and Blackberry wasn't even on the radar. One of the commenters pointed to the following article, from late 2011, to answer the "Apple or Android" question. I doubt the person would have offered this link if he didn't think it was still relevant. Take a look at what he had to say about Blackberry: Nick's on IT!: Should I buy an iPhone or Android?
- 02-14-13, 08:48 AM #82
So, for whatever my anecdote is worth, my impression of college-age Americans is that they're not terribly loyal to a particular platform and are interested in new tech, and BB10 can take advantage of this. But they'll need to convince their fathers!
- CrackBerry Addict
02-14-13, 09:37 AM #83
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Look, that article even names actual executives instead of "A shop in London" as yours does.
- 02-14-13, 09:56 AM #84
I want to buy shares in any company that sells three hundred million of something over a 3 year period.
- 02-14-13, 10:26 AM #85
Deutsche Bank call sales of the z10 in the UK "tepid". If the z10 isn't selling well in the UK then what can be expected from US?.In Canada, the firm notes the country is rooting for the home team. "It appears that Blackberry has done a much better job at defending their home turf. The sales representatives appear well-trained and while there are incidents of low initial stocking levels, demand generally appears better in Canada than it does in the UK. We think strong sales in Canada is a requirement for BB10 to gain the traction globally."
In the UK, it appears that Blackberry is correcting the missteps in made in the first week, the firm notes. "While this may not affect initial demand there, it will go a long way towards helping them gain mind-share with the consumer and hopefully that will translate into sales over the longer term. We will continue to monitor their progress there closely, but so far, we conclude that the sales in the region have been tepid."
- 02-14-13, 01:34 PM #86
2. You say there's 'nothing new' in Android. Well, at the very least the hardware is new, and the OS is far from stale. Thanks to Blackberry's delayed launch, it will show up in the US around the same time as flagships from Sony, HTC and Samsung which annihilate the Z10 in nearly every possible way from a hardware perspective.
My point is, there's a whole lot on the horizon for both iOS and Android guaranteed to keep their clientele happy.
3. There simply is no indication that the Z10 has sold a very large number of units. Most of the sold out stories are from shops with limited quantities. Microsoft Surface Pro units are sold out across the country, but nobody believes that's due to purchases in the hundreds of thousands. Until BB release concrete sales figures (which i believe they won't for the simple fact that the 'sellout' stories are much more impressive than actual sales) we'll keep guessing until March.
- 02-14-13, 01:43 PM #87You need to do better research. Blackberries get trashed constantly here. Constantly...I was just reading a discussion on a social network I'm on where a Canadian asked people what he should buy "Apple or Android". Note he's Canadian and Blackberry wasn't even on the radar. One of the commenters pointed to the following article, from late 2011, to answer the "Apple or Android" question. I doubt the person would have offered this link if he didn't think it was still relevant. Take a look at what he had to say about Blackberry: Nick's on IT!: Should I buy an iPhone or Android?
- 02-14-13, 01:58 PM #882. You say there's 'nothing new' in Android. Well, at the very least the hardware is new, and the OS is far from stale. Thanks to Blackberry's delayed launch, it will show up in the US around the same time as flagships from Sony, HTC and Samsung which annihilate the Z10 in nearly every possible way from a hardware perspective.
My point is, there's a whole lot on the horizon for both iOS and Android guaranteed to keep their clientele happy.3. There simply is no indication that the Z10 has sold a very large number of units. Most of the sold out stories are from shops with limited quantities. Microsoft Surface Pro units are sold out across the country, but nobody believes that's due to purchases in the hundreds of thousands. Until BB release concrete sales figures (which i believe they won't for the simple fact that the 'sellout' stories are much more impressive than actual sales) we'll keep guessing until March.
With the Z10, though, there are some big differences. We've already heard that in the days following the launch more than half of Phones 4U's 360 outlets in the UK sold out, and that actually WAS a specific number. There is widespread anecdotal evidence that in Canada there are not just sold out retailers, but whole cities where a Z10 can't be found. I don't take all reports at face value, and I don't want to be a hypocrite about this, but it looks like initial sales actually have been good.
- CrackBerry Genius
02-14-13, 02:02 PM #89
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At Launch, I am sure sales reps will change their tunes. It is most likely in their best financial interests to do so. Once S4 and iphone6 come out, it will mean Blackberry will go on the back burner with the heat turned off. UNLESS, Blackberry is able to pull out a phone with compatible specs to the competition or a huge wow that the Blackberry OS can do that others can't. This is the biggest Smartphone War ever and I think Blackberry will need the long term capabilities of QNX to win people over and compete. BB10 in itself is most likely is not going to do it by itself. Because of QNX, I think Blackberry can survive as #3 in the US.
- 02-14-13, 05:09 PM #90
- The product is not in stock
- The product is not profitable
- The product has such a poor track record that the clerk would rather not see another return on it
I have seen retail staff do #3 many times - I've done the same myself on many occasions when I sold retail consumer electronic products. But if a customer insists on purchasing the item, most clerks will certainly sell it to them rather than have the customer walk out and buy it someplace else. After all, if the store didn't want to sell that product, they wouldn't be stocking them.
- 02-14-13, 05:28 PM #91Do you really think that the only place I am exposed to discussions or commentary about tech products is here? Uh, no. If that were the case I would probably have made my username here "BBfanboi4ever" or something, rather than "Omnitech".
Remember that BlackBerry was still considered among the top 100 brands worldwide; not trivial, and still decent brand equity. I think with a few years of competent execution and genuine innovation that a lot of users who have dismissed them will be ready to take them seriously again.
- CrackBerry Master
02-14-13, 09:23 PM #92
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I can assure you that they are selling much much better than the 9900s were last month. At least in Canada. So that means a big increase in market share if the trend continues.
I would be looking at an initial market share increase in Canada to around 40%. Whether that holds up or not is to be seen.
- 02-15-13, 02:54 AM #93
Bigger, brighter and higher resolution screens are also a feature that will make it in newer phones...and thanks to Nokia and the iPhone throwing down the Camera gauntlet, expect all those phones to sport cameras that'll outstrip the Z10.
Understand my POV. I'm not trying to make the Z10 look bad...just trying to show the OP that the Carriers already have their hands full with superphones in April to worry about losing sales by not carrying BB10 devices earlier.
The stock levels could be much higher, online sales may have accounted for much more units, my math could be wrong, etc...but the point there is that all we have here is a range.
Estimates are nice but they can be misleading.
- 02-15-13, 09:43 AM #94
But it's an excellent device and the OS is excellent and the BlackBerry World hit the ground running and is making gains in key apps, so, if you add it up, and take away "spec envy" that is actually common only amongst tech-blog-lurker-nerds like ourselves (and not even universal in that case) then I have a lot of confidence that BB10 is off to a good start, and when the Q10 and the "Curves" hit, market penetration will increase more still.
Last edited by lorax1284; 02-15-13 at 10:29 AM.
- 02-15-13, 06:50 PM #95
People are human, they have personal biases. In fact I'd wager that simplistic/binary views of the world are more rampant today than they ever were. Thus people bring those biases everywhere they go, including to the sales floor if that happens to be their occupation.
A lot depends on their employer. Verizon has been accused for example of being lukewarm about Blackberry, and if that is indeed true, I'd expect it to show through in how they train their staff.
As for "stable" - my personal experience and my exposure to other opinions demonstrates that the JavaME platform that BB has been milking way past its sell-by-date has caused BB's reputation massive damage due to all of its reliability/performance issues.
- 02-15-13, 11:56 PM #99
Pay particular attention to the original post (Nov 16 2012) and the posts from Dec 22 2012 and Jan 19 2013.
That is what Verizon reps have been telling their customers.
Now granted, they have an incentive to push customers to buy what they have in stock, but making up disinformation to push that line? Especially in the latter case, when it is only 10 days from the launch of BB10?
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