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  1. scalemaster34's Avatar
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    #51  

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    Quote Originally Posted by wu-wei View Post
    And what of attorney-client privileged material? Should the government (aka prosecution) be permitted unfettered access to communications between an accused and their attorney? Let's not forget the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments to the Constitution.

    Bottom line - I use encryption to maintain confidences.
    If it makes you feel better to believe that....

    Sometimes the needs of the many out way the needs of the few (or one). We live in a Society that includes a wide range of peoples - most are law abiding, but some are not. Technology is getting to the point where an individual or small group can harm a large number of people. Like it or not the agencies that we expect to protect us need access to information in real time, not a couple of hours or days from now in some cases.
  2. kozmo68's Avatar
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    #52  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Well, let's not take this thread too far from the subject. In the light of these news, will you change your cloud use?
    I use it very sparsely already, not to say it doesn't have its merit and advantages but I'm not going all in with it..
    Hater of all things APPLE.... Innovation, really? iphone = itouch with a phone, ipad = bigger itouch... give me a break!

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  3. Majestic Lion's Avatar
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    #53  

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    *sigh*


    Ever-evolving tech, rarely-evolving people.
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  4. kozmo68's Avatar
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    #54  

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    Quote Originally Posted by scalemaster34 View Post
    If it makes you feel better to believe that....

    Sometimes the needs of the many out way the needs of the few (or one).
    You and them may be selling it, but I'm not buying that BS!
    Hater of all things APPLE.... Innovation, really? iphone = itouch with a phone, ipad = bigger itouch... give me a break!

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  5. wu-wei's Avatar
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    #55  

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    Quote Originally Posted by scalemaster34 View Post
    If it makes you feel better to believe that....

    Sometimes the needs of the many out way the needs of the few (or one). We live in a Society that includes a wide range of peoples - most are law abiding, but some are not. Technology is getting to the point where an individual or small group can harm a large number of people. Like it or not the agencies that we expect to protect us need access to information in real time, not a couple of hours or days from now in some cases.
    Yes, it does make me feel better to believe that. No technology is perfect, but encryption provides the people I serve the best possible protection. If confidential material in my possession, custody, or control is decrypted by anyone except those who are entitled to access it, there had better be a pretty dang good reason for it - and I strongly doubt any court would find in favor of such illegal and unethical behavior.

    Plain and simple - get a warrant. Prove to a court that probable cause exists. That, friend, is how our system works - or how it is supposed to work, excepting all the previous erosions of our constitutional rights.

    The rest of the argument is but one side of the debate whether security or privacy is more important, a side with which I obviously disagree.
  6. daveycrocket's Avatar
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    #56  

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    It wasn't to long ago that we had the London riots which was carried out by a mindless mob useing BBM as their comunication method. Since then many have been brought to justice with the help of BBM records etc. It was absolutly right that this was used, RIM was right to give access. I personally have no worries about being monitored as such. It was muted on this thread about confidentiallity, encryption, etc. As many of my rants have said my material cannot go to a cloud/server out of the EU area so I use BlackBerry to keep all my data safe on my computer. Any sensitive health data on e-mails is always password protected or encrypted. I am also pleased that in the UK any traffic in paedophilia is monitored.
    I think that the question for me is about the integrety of those who monitor us in relation to "the agenda", for humanitarian, or security purposes or indeed enquirey rooted/linked to political issues for example "election".
    Be careful when Speaking, you create the world around you with your words-Navajo
  7. bitek's Avatar
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    #57  

    Default Re: The begining of the end for the Cloud?

    happy to live north of the border in Canada. sorry to say that but USA and UK are police states


    Sent from Blackberry Playbook using TapaTalk 2
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  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #58  

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitek View Post
    happy to live north of the border in Canada. sorry to say that but USA and UK are police states


    Sent from Blackberry Playbook using TapaTalk 2
    Yep, indeed:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/19269353
  9. kbz1960's Avatar
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    #59  

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    I don't think you can avoid the cloud unless you just never get online. I'm sure there is nothing they would find of importance or wrong with anything I do unless they are against pron or something and it is that way for most people. If they are snooping thru my stuff though with no probable cause or anything to go on other than they are just snooping that is when I have trouble with it. If they have something to go on then get a warrant, how long would that take?, and do it.
    Sent from me using my fingers. Be pantless in 5K. Febreze - for more than smells.
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  10. daveycrocket's Avatar
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    #60  

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    [QUOTE=bitek;7738627]happy to live north of the border in Canada. sorry to say that but USA and UK are police states



    Maybe, I think it's difficult all round but at least we are aware of the involvement. I'm sure other countries employ similar processes, but do you know.
    Bullying, defamation etc is abusive behavior, those who use these methods of controlling others actually in my view destroy freedom of speech.
    Given that the rules are known those who choose to flaunt them are just asking for trouble.
    Last edited by daveycrocket; 11-20-2012 at 07:11 PM. Reason: Reply is together with quote for some reason
    Be careful when Speaking, you create the world around you with your words-Navajo
  11. nogutsnoglory's Avatar
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    #61  

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    While I have nothing to hide, I have a real problem with the proposed legislation and this line of thinking. Are you serious when you say you wouldn't mind if the police came to your house for a quick 5 minute search? That is insane and is a blatant violation of you constitutional rights. I know you said that you were just being a devil's advocate, but I see absolutely no reasonable argument to support this line of thinking. Once you start giving up your rights to the government, the government will continue to take more and more, until your country looks like China, Iran or some other backwards Muslim country in the middle east where the people have next to no rights. No thanks, I prefer the New Hampshire motto: "live free or die."
    Just say no to Facebook.
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  12. ajst222's Avatar
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    #62  

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    Well no this doesn't make me feel differently about cloud storage. But the US government has no constitutional right to invade into our personal lives. This has nothing to do with cloud storage, but instead, government limits.
    My goal here is to help out and provide knowledge! Feel free to shoot me a PM

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  13. kozmo68's Avatar
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    #63  

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    Quote Originally Posted by bitek View Post
    happy to live north of the border in Canada. sorry to say that but USA and UK are police states
    I'm also Canadian and happy for it, but we'll be soon to follow. Harper and politicians can not be trusted.
    Hater of all things APPLE.... Innovation, really? iphone = itouch with a phone, ipad = bigger itouch... give me a break!

    Evaluation of awesomeness:7230, 8830 World Edition, 9800, 9860, Z10 and now Z30 plus 2 x 32g Playbooks
  14. adamschuetze's Avatar
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    #64  

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    As long as there has been electronic communication, there has been government eavesdropping. They're just getting more brazen in how they do it. If you are truly concerned, use PGP to encrypt your email and to encrypt your files before you put them in the cloud. Use tor to browse the internet. Etc.
  15. cjcampbell's Avatar
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    #65  

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    Quote Originally Posted by kozmo68 View Post
    I'm also Canadian and happy for it, but we'll be soon to follow. Harper and politicians can not be trusted.
    We have been for quite a while now... just google Bill-C30
    kozmo68 likes this.
  16. #66  

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    Right or wrong, if the government really wants to go through your stuff, they will find some way to do it. But there are a lot of internet users out there as well...the trick is to make it so that you're not deserving of their attention.
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  17. adamschuetze's Avatar
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    #67  

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjcampbell View Post
    We have been for quite a while now... just google Bill-C30
    Bill C-30 fills me with rage, the heat of which is like a thousand suns.
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  18. axllebeer's Avatar
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    #68  

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGWIRE View Post
    in the big skeem on things does it matter. are you trying to hide something that you don't want the govn't to see? this affects the average day person on a VERY small level, IMO. if the govn't wants to poke around my boring emails then they can go ahead and do it LOL
    So here is the deal. I have nothing to hide and that's not the point. The point is the govt is bleeding away at so many freedoms, just cause, due process, and many more things than I can remember at the moment. They do it slowly over periods of decades so that the vast majority of people think, "eh, what does that little piece of the puzzle matter anyway. " look at the big picture and one can see that it is criminal. Parts of tech cannot be kept up with because it changes faster than the laws can keep up. I get that. Things like this that become law without a vote of the common people I have a MAJOR problem with. And everyone should.

    Ok, end rant.
    Last edited by axllebeer; 11-21-2012 at 01:16 AM.
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  19. stephen_az's Avatar
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    #69  

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    I am always fascinated when I read Canadians and Europeans pontificating about eroding rights in the United States. While that is troubling, and something I work against, you really might want to check into the details of your own house before criticizing another. To put it another way, here is a news flash for you. Even if this was to pass in its current form, which it will not, it needs to be reconciled through both houses of congress. Even if it was then signed in its current form, which it will not be, there would still be better and more transparent protections than in most of the home countries of those doing the criticizing. Ever notice how US intelligence agencies often get better counterterrorism data from other governments than they get from sources in the US? Perhaps you might want to ponder just how private your own data is....
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  20. kill_9's Avatar
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    #70  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oniberry View Post
    Doesn't affect me. I am not American. Besides, I always write/send them under the assumption that someone can and will eventually read my e-mails. (shrugs) It's not even an issue for 90% of Americans, probably less because there are still a few States that will not allow this, and still require a warrant.
    I am Canadian. I manage my own servers in-house, literally. Even if I moved to the United States of Amerika (sic) I would keep my servers in The Great White North. As it stands, 99% of the data is on my encrypted servers with only bookmarks and a few innocuous files on my notebook. My BlackBerry smartphone and tablet are password-protected.
  21. kill_9's Avatar
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    #71  

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveycrocket View Post
    It wasn't to long ago that we had the London riots which was carried out by a mindless mob useing BBM as their comunication method. Since then many have been brought to justice with the help of BBM records etc. It was absolutly right that this was used, RIM was right to give access.
    If the organizers behind the mindless mob had bothered to set-up a BlackBerry Enterprise Server (Enterprise Edition or Express Edition) and activated those BlackBerry smartphones against said BlackBerry Enterprise Server, there would have been no BBM records for Research In (law-abiding) Motion to hand-over to the "security forces." The hard drive on which the BlackBerry Enterprise Server was installed could have been removed afterwards by the organizers and shredded. But nobody ever claimed criminals were smart beyond reproach.
    Last edited by BB9700CA; 11-21-2012 at 02:36 AM.
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #72  

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen_az View Post
    I am always fascinated when I read Canadians and Europeans pontificating about eroding rights in the United States. While that is troubling, and something I work against, you really might want to check into the details of your own house before criticizing another. To put it another way, here is a news flash for you. Even if this was to pass in its current form, which it will not, it needs to be reconciled through both houses of congress. Even if it was then signed in its current form, which it will not be, there would still be better and more transparent protections than in most of the home countries of those doing the criticizing. Ever notice how US intelligence agencies often get better counterterrorism data from other governments than they get from sources in the US? Perhaps you might want to ponder just how private your own data is....
    Unless of course, Obama signs yet another executive order. The problem is what happens in US affects the rest of the world.
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #73  

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamschuetze View Post
    As long as there has been electronic communication, there has been government eavesdropping. They're just getting more brazen in how they do it. If you are truly concerned, use PGP to encrypt your email and to encrypt your files before you put them in the cloud. Use tor to browse the internet. Etc.
    But that's exactly what will attract their attention probably.
  24. jakie55's Avatar
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    #74  

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    I quite frankly detest the phrase, "for the greater good", not that I am hard hearted, nor do I wish ill on others, but that is the rallying cry whenever "THEY" want to take from me, for "Their" use. (Be that money, information, rights, or what have you.) The other phrase I detest is "If you are not guilty, why would you mind if....?" To get things back to the question at hand, I never assume that any information, be it in letter form, email, telephone,or social media, is "safe from prying eyes." That way, I am not caught short. Just my paranoid thinking. Remember, just because one is paranoid, does not mean they are NOT out to get you. Sleep well, THEY are protecting us.
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  25. hurds's Avatar
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    #75  

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    I just wonder if the people who don't think this is a big deal, or don't mind googles data-mining, would they like a government agent or company employee looking over their shoulder taking notes of everything they do on the internet.

    Even with BB or any device I feel the need to be wary but I know I say things I wouldn't want the whole world/a company/ the government to know. Its hard to constantly be thinking someone might hear every single thing you say, remarks are often made in emotional situations or in situations where one may simply be making conversation. I feel for the most part I don't have strong opinions or beliefs on most subjects (aside from thinking RIM rules!) so I would definitely be concerned with eavesdropping if the time comes I do have strong believes on highly-charged topics, or if in future employment or careers my previous statements/opinions no matter how strongly/weakly held then or now could be used in arugments against me even if they were irrelevant.
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