[joejuck]

It's because the BBOS7 plans are so cheap. It's not even because of the device at that point. You can't get a cheaper plan with a decent amount of data or an unlimited bb data plan that will come close to the price of a regular data plan.

BB10 is not going to out sell the legacy bb's because it's not seen as a good phone in its market. (the ones where people don't need a cheap plan.)

BlackBerry needs to make a top of the line BBOS7 phone just to sell for people that want cheap plans. No matter how cheap a BB10 device is it can't compare to a cheap monthly phone plan.

Rant over

Posted via CB10

[sickyute]

True...that's one thing I miss, the unlimited data.

Posted via CB10 running on Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.2228

[bakron1]

The unlimited data issue is changing here in the USA, most carriers understand that every smart device out there requires a good data plan to be effective.

I have noticed stuff like data sharing and family plans that are being marketed very heavily here and at a very reasonable cost. BlackBerry OS10 devices would sell here and abroad if they where marketed properly and from my experience this needs to be done using a "hands on" approach.

This require folks at the vendor end who are familiar with the device features to make it work. As I said in my previous post, I have sold 4 of 5 z30's I have bought this month to folks I have demoed the device to and answered their questions properly and all of them love the device.

So, I don't want to here that OS10 doesn't sell, it requires a different marketing approach and if BlackBerry expects to survive, everything they do from here on out better be different from the way they have done it in the past, just my two cents.

Send from my z30 on T Mobile USA (10.2.1.2160)

[joejuck]

I was never arguing whether bb10 has good phones. I was saying that the order os7 phones outsell the new ones because of the cheap plans. I think if bb10 has the same plans as a bb7 they would sell pretty evenly.

The whole problem of why bb10 doesn't sell well in its markets is another issue on its own. I also agree that it's because of lack of consumer awareness and marking.

Posted via CB10

[Dave Bourque]

No it won't continue to outsell.... Z3 will be out and then you got the Q20 that will bring the rest of them out of legacy.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[Brewer James]

That's what they said when the Z10 came out.

[Dave Bourque]

That's what they said when the Z10 came out.

Z10 didn't cost 150...

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[Delil]

Actually if I'm not mistaken, a BIS plan isn't cheaper than a regular dataplan. At least not over here.
For example for around 15 to 25 euro per month you can get the following. (taking in to account the cost of a 1GB BIS plan, which is 15 euro over here)

Telenet King 15 euro: 150 mins calling, 10000 sms, 1 GB of data
Telenet King SuperSize 20 euro: 300 mins, 20000 sms, 2 GB
Mobile Vikings 15 euro: 100 mins, 2000 sms, 2 GB
Mobile Vikings 25 euro: 200mins, 3000 sms, 3 GB

A BB7 device can't make use of any of the included data. So you'd have to pay 15 euro for BIS and adding a call and sms plan. So you're going to be paying at least between 30 and 40 euro a month.
For 39 a month I get unlimited calls, sms and 2GB regular data. For 10 euro more even 4GB data and Spotify premium.

So I'm not sure if being cheaper is a good argument. Maybe it holds truth in other parts of the world. Over here many of my OS 7 using buddies complain about having to pay that extra 15 for BIS on top of their monthly bill.

And yes I know BIS is more efficient with data. But still.

I hope you guys get what I'm trying to explain.
Cheers


Posted with my dirty thirty!

[Dave Bourque]

Actually if I'm not mistaken, a BIS plan isn't cheaper than a regular dataplan. At least not over here.
For example for around 15 to 25 euro per month you can get the following. (taking in to account the cost of a 1GB BIS plan, which is 15 euro over here)

Telenet King 15 euro: 150 mins calling, 10000 sms, 1 GB of data
Telenet King SuperSize 20 euro: 300 mins, 20000 sms, 2 GB
Mobile Vikings 15 euro: 100 mins, 2000 sms, 2 GB
Mobile Vikings 25 euro: 200mins, 3000 sms, 3 GB

A BB7 device can't make use of any of the included data. So you'd have to pay 15 euro for BIS and adding a call and sms plan. So you're going to be paying at least between 30 and 40 euro a month.
For 39 a month I get unlimited calls, sms and 2GB regular data. For 10 euro more even 4GB data and Spotify premium.

So I'm not sure if being cheaper is a good argument. Maybe it holds truth in other parts of the world. Over here many of my OS 7 using buddies complain about having to pay that extra 15 for BIS on top of their monthly bill.

And yes I know BIS is more efficient with data. But still.

I hope you guys get what I'm trying to explain.
Cheers


Posted with my dirty thirty!

So the Z3 is the correct path.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[meltedice]

I think BlackBerry may consider making a z1(not Sony one), which is the cheapest model and can be cut down to 99 bucks when it goes on sale. Past it to one cheap Chinese company to make it and sell it for 130 bucks with pretty OK specs and it will sell around the world. As phone is getting easier to make BlackBerry should walk down this path. Signing agreement with Foxconn is a good start, but I still think that their production cost is too expensive compare to those dirty cheap cellphone manufacturers; however, it is easier to keep the phone quality.

So my conclusion, make a z1 and sell it for 130 with OK specs producing by a dirty cheap manufacturer.

Posted via CB10

[Dave Bourque]

^huh... why produce the same thing... just drop the price of the Z3... which will already be cheap at 150.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[meltedice]

^huh... why produce the same thing... just drop the price of the Z3... which will already be cheap at 150.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

I think it needs to be 99 in half an year and ppl can buy it without thinking

Posted via CB10

[sickyute]

Z10 didn't cost 150...

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

Still can't get it for $150. Still have a 4 star rating on amazon with 341 reviews doh...just wanted to put that out there.

Posted via CB10 running on Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.2228

[Dave Bourque]

Still can't get it for $150. Still have a 4 star rating on amazon with 341 reviews doh...just wanted to put that out there.

Posted via CB10 running on Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.2228

When I look at the Z3 specs I see a damn good device for the price. Hoping it sells well.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[bakron1]

I would buy a LTE version of the Z3 in a heartbeat if it was offered here at 200 dollars.

Send from my z30 on T Mobile USA (10.2.1.2160)

[TgeekB]

You had better be right this time.

Posted with my Q

[Dave Bourque]

You had better be right this time.

Posted with my Q

Who.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[TgeekB]

You.

Posted with my Q

[Dave Bourque]

You.

Posted with my Q

When was I wrong?

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141

[TgeekB]

I didn't say you were. I just said you better be right. Don't read too much into it.

Posted with my Q

[lnichols]

It's because the BBOS7 plans are so cheap. It's not even because of the device at that point. You can't get a cheaper plan with a decent amount of data or an unlimited bb data plan that will come close to the price of a regular data plan.

BB10 is not going to out sell the legacy bb's because it's not seen as a good phone in its market. (the ones where people don't need a cheap plan.)

BlackBerry needs to make a top of the line BBOS7 phone just to sell for people that want cheap plans. No matter how cheap a BB10 device is it can't compare to a cheap monthly phone plan.

Rant over

Posted via CB10

If this were the case, then cheap Android phones wouldn't be eating BlackBerry's lunch in markets where they are selling phones in cheap plan markets. Carriers don't like cheap plans or paying BlackBerry a monthly fee for those cheap plans. They should have stopped selling new BIS services when BB10 released, told existing BIS customers in two years it will be gone, and only sell BBOS devices to corporate BES customers.

As HSPA+ and LTE becomes more prevalent globally, carriers will discourage BBOS sales in favor of devices that they don't have to pay BlackBerry a fee for, and that they can make maximum profit on for the investment in the network. The USPS was the leading indicator, not an anomaly.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

It's because the BBOS7 plans are so cheap. It's not even because of the device at that point. You can't get a cheaper plan with a decent amount of data or an unlimited bb data plan that will come close to the price of a regular data plan.

BB10 is not going to out sell the legacy bb's because it's not seen as a good phone in its market. (the ones where people don't need a cheap plan.)

BlackBerry needs to make a top of the line BBOS7 phone just to sell for people that want cheap plans. No matter how cheap a BB10 device is it can't compare to a cheap monthly phone plan.

Rant over

Posted via CB10

Maybe in your country but that is absolutely no longer the case in the UK.

Even if it were true that everywhere BIS and BES data plans were cheaper, going by your logic BBOS 7 phones should be outselling iPhones, Android phones and Windows phones. You see the flaw in your argument?

BBOS 7 phones outsell BB10 phones in total global sales for a mixture of reasons and those reasons are different in different parts of the world.

In the developed world lots of regulated government, public sector and financial sector bodies haven't moved away from BBOS because in their respective countries BB10 and BES10 doesn't yet have the required certification to allow them to used. It will come but it always comes slowly.

In the developing markets there are still countries where the carrier's networks are not very advanced and 3G is still a pipe dream. In those markets the data compression provided by BIS is still useful. However, just as happened in the developed world, gradually as the networks improve the negatives of BIS such as awful latency mean that it loses its appeal.

There hasn't yet been a true low end cheap BB10 phone. That's the Z3 coming in April. The lack of a low end phone has hurt BB10 since its launch particularly in markets such as Indonesia (the inspiration for the phone) where people would never adopt the BB10 phones released so far in meaningful numbers just because of their up front cost compared to Android phones (not necessarily anything to do with the data plan).

Couple all the above with the fact that the last time any money was spent on marketing BB10 phones was the end of last summer, the fact that many carriers have stopped stocking some or all models of BB10 altogether, and the fact that as a result the average person's idea of what a BlackBerry is is still an old BBOS phone with a physical keyboard and a tiny screen it's really not surprising that globally they still outsell BB10 phones.

Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.2141 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.1