1. Mazinger's Avatar
    Guys, I'm just curious on what your thoughts are on the upcoming design of those 2 phones that houses BB10. I've gathered my thoughts below but they are in no means to whine but to just voice out my personal opinion. Obviously, we all think differently so let me know what you think...

    I love BlackBerry having used it exclusively in the last 6 years. Admittedly, the last 2 years has been painful as I noticed a huge decline in quality of the handsets being produced - both in design and actual build quality and materials used. (the designers seem to be stuck in plastic piano black land)

    My excitement with BB10 is mainly focused on how they redeem themselves with the new generation models. I am very impressed with what i've seen with the OS so far. But in saying that, I am now very concerned with the form factor they are using/planning to use as it does the excellent OS no justice!

    It's 2013 technology trapped in a 2008ish Form Factor. The Blackberry story continues...A Great Company with a Questionable Hardware Design Team. These guys should hang out more in the design concepts section of Crackberry! There are more talented people there who can do the job for less $$ i'm sure.

    These are one of those few times when they can actually make a difference and redeem themselves with a ground breaking design. Ok, if that's asking too much then at least something that can look good in the phone store shelves when placed side by side with it's modern rivals.

    In my personal opinion, hardware, design ,and form factor have been the weakest links in the BB models in the last couple of years. If it actually led to their eventual decline, i could not say for sure but you can't deny the fact that it probably played a big role in people switching to sexier devices with better cameras, etc.

    I am now surprised they are allowing the same design team make those mistakes all over again. I am very hopeful that RIM will rise again with BB10 but just in case they don't, my blame goes to whoever is responsible for designing their phones.

    All these months of planning and preps and all they could come up with are refined replicas of the 2009 Pam Pixi and the 2011 Lumia 900....C'mon really???

    I hope RIM takes some tips from KIA and HYUNDAI and listen to how changing their design team has turned their company around.

    Once again BBX is an awesome OS no doubt. But reality is, LOOKS will always be the first thing people are attracted to before they discover the wonderful OS inside it. If you have a phone on display that's not worth a second look, then it doesn't do BBX much justice as nobody will care to try it out.
    Last edited by TitoAdam; 10-05-12 at 01:40 AM.
    10-03-12 07:30 AM
  2. mikeo007's Avatar

    Palm pixie...really? Come on...
    10-03-12 08:01 AM
  3. gravymonster's Avatar
    I think the 9900 and 9860 are the nicest looking phones they've ever made and I think the new ones look even nicer. So I don't really get where you're coming from. To each his own I guess.
    nneal likes this.
    10-03-12 08:20 AM
  4. BlackBerry Guy's Avatar
    Decline in materials? Ever check out a 9900/9930?

    As far as phones looking the same, there's only so many ways you can make a touchscreen phone. It's essentially a slab of glass, and a rectangle is the most efficient shape for it be.

    I'd dare say the Bold 9000/9900 look is iconic when it comes to BlackBerry. Certain cars, like the Porsche 911 and Lamborghinis have retained the same basic shape and design elements throughout the years. They are classic and timeless in their design and beauty. Kias and Hyundais? Their cars look really nice now, but they were absolutely atrocious 10+ years ago. They HAD to redesign their vehicles to become successful.

    Reviews have typically complained about old specs and OS on BlackBerries, but the actual physical design and look of the devices have typically been a strong point.
    Speedygi, DJM626, Balti43 and 4 others like this.
    10-03-12 08:55 AM
  5. Mazinger's Avatar
    Ok, I guess the Palm Pixi comment is a bit off but nevertheless I just thought they were leaving everything behind and moving on with new designs..

    I do agree with the 9900/9930 being the best built device ever. In my years of using blackberry, I have shifted from device to device and can say I have used almost all of them for at least a week each (I work in Telco Corp Sales) with the exception of the Porche Design model and the latest entry level Curves. This year I have already used 5 devices, the 9860, 9930, 9810, 9790, and now a 9900.

    Here are some observations that led me to my comments about the design and quality...

    The 9860 is the hardest to type on even after weeks of owning. The plastic screen and the all piano black front is easily smudged. On the positive side the resolution and the OS is ok.

    I was excited with the 9810 because it featured a silver color and a very nice design on the battery cover. After using mine for about a month, I noticed dust building up inside my screen. I also noticed that it is a hit and miss when it comes to the slider mechanism. Mine was nice and tight while I've sold some that were wobbly right out of the box.

    The 9790 was also ok since i got it with 7.1 installed. I like the size and slimness but noticed the hardware buttons started making the plasticky cracked sounds after only a couple of days. The one I got also had a wobbly trackpad for some reason. Again like the 9860, the plastic touchscreen didn't make me too happy..

    The 9930 is the only handset I used before which I didn't have too many issues with so I ended up re-acquiring it in the 9900 variant this time and am still using it up to this day. It is well built, screams quality and apart from the camera having no AF and that "Bold" logo on the back, I love it.

    I guess most of my observations all point to quality and design more than anything else and since I work around ALL the phones in the market everyday, I find it hard not to compare each and every one with my beloved BlackBerry.

    Again, my observations are just my own, it may vary with your experiences but I just want to share with you why I believe a lot have flipped their berries for other devices based on my own experience with the BB models of late.

    Let's face it, RIM won't save itself just relying on ever loyal customers like us. They need to re-capture a chunk of the ones who have left and attract a new market as well. While we fanatics may settle for whatever design they come up with - old design inspired or new, what about capturing a new market? If the old designs didn't do much for them then, RIM has to find every reason for them to take a second look now and in my opinion that includes a new look and better QC on the handsets.

    ..and I'm not saying I won't use the new models too, whatever design they go with, I will most likely still use them because I believe in the OS. I just wish they put the same effort in the phone itself as they did in the OS since they have a chance to do so that's all. And this doesn't mean taking away traditional things we love like the keyboard layout.
    I would personally prefer a very simple yet untired design with non-sliding querty model like this one:



    With regards to the kia and hyundai comparison, this is what I meant in a simpler equation:

    Old Engine Technology + New Car Designs = Success for Kia and Hyundai

    State of the Art OS + Tired Old Designs = Success

    State of the Art OS + Competitive Phone Designs = More Chances of Success for RIM
    Last edited by TitoAdam; 10-03-12 at 10:01 AM.
    richardat likes this.
    10-03-12 09:46 AM
  6. mas_quemex's Avatar
    Form factor was the strongest (not weakest) feature of BlackBerry smartphones since 1999. It gives instant brand recognition with mouse (optical trackpad).

    Incase you don't know, the Bold 9900 is the thinnest phone in the RIM inventory now at just 10.5 mm depth. That implicitly tells us about the high technology manufacturing processes, patents & advanced raw materials involved.

    BlackBerry (like Ford) has expanded its "horsepower" while retaining the form factor.

    Sent from my Curve 8520
    squished18 and iankeiththomas like this.
    10-03-12 01:24 PM
  7. vegas33139's Avatar
    Guys, I'm just curious on what your thoughts are on the upcoming design of those 2 phones that houses BBX. I've gathered my thoughts below but they are in no means to whine but to just voice out my personal opinion. Obviously, we all think differently so let me know what you think...

    I love BlackBerry having used it exclusively in the last 6 years. Admittedly, the last 2 years has been painful as I noticed a huge decline in quality of the handsets being produced - both in design and actual build quality and materials used. (the designers seem to be stuck in plastic piano black land)

    My excitement with BBX is mainly focused on how they redeem themselves with the new generation models. I am very impressed with what i've seen with the OS so far. But in saying that, I am now very concerned with the form factor they are using/planning to use as it does the excellent OS no justice!

    It's 2013 technology trapped in a 2008ish Form Factor. The Blackberry story continues...A Great Company with a Questionable Hardware Design Team. These guys should hang out more in the design concepts section of Crackberry! There are more talented people there who can do the job for less $$ i'm sure.

    These are one of those few times when they can actually make a difference and redeem themselves with a ground breaking design. Ok, if that's asking too much then at least something that can look good in the phone store shelves when placed side by side with it's modern rivals.

    In my personal opinion, hardware, design ,and form factor have been the weakest links in the BB models in the last couple of years. If it actually led to their eventual decline, i could not say for sure but you can't deny the fact that it probably played a big role in people switching to sexier devices with better cameras, etc.

    I am now surprised they are allowing the same design team make those mistakes all over again. I am very hopeful that RIM will rise again with BBX but just in case they don't, my blame goes to whoever is responsible for designing their phones.

    All these months of planning and preps and all they could come up with are refined replicas of the 2009 Pam Pixi and the 2011 Lumia 900....C'mon really???

    I hope RIM takes some tips from KIA and HYUNDAI and listen to how changing their design team has turned their company around.

    Once again BBX is an awesome OS no doubt. But reality is, LOOKS will always be the first thing people are attracted to before they discover the wonderful OS inside it. If you have a phone on display that's not worth a second look, then it doesn't do BBX much justice as nobody will care to try it out.
    Apart from the Palm Pixie analogy, I think you make some very valid points and were also my concerns when images of the first two BB10 devices leaked.

    Let's hope these images are not actually the finished item and the designers come up with a wow design that jumps off the shelf and shouts 'buy me'.
    10-03-12 01:30 PM
  8. itmccb's Avatar
    We only know for sure what the faces of the devices look like. The L-series is functional and the N-series, though a tad awkward, looks much nicer with the action bar (and amusingly enough, nicer still with Android's action buttons :P) which wasn't in the render because the image on the screen was too tall. I'm withholding judgement at least until we get a 360 view.
    10-03-12 05:53 PM
  9. BitPusher2600's Avatar
    I do get a kick out of how critical simple aesthetics are to the mass market. It is kind of a shame that a smoking hot OS with brilliant innovations and design aren't likely to get as much of a chance if the device that houses it isn't exceedingly sexy. It is certainly the unfortunate rule of American society anyway; looks are apparently everything.

    Written from BitPusher's BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
    10-03-12 07:53 PM
  10. timmy t's Avatar
    What is this BBX you speak of?
    Superfly_FR and CeeXTwo like this.
    10-03-12 09:29 PM
  11. timmy t's Avatar
    I think these companies use focus groups so maybe the people they asked are current BB users and like phones that are not too different from what they have now.
    It is hard to change styles radically without alienating people and RIM cannot afford to alienate its current customer base.
    10-03-12 09:32 PM
  12. southlander's Avatar
    most of the blogs I read tend to compliment the blackberry hardware design and say the problem "is the software". not talking specs, just the designs.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk 2
    10-03-12 09:37 PM
  13. tmelon's Avatar
    I don't think the new designs look bad by any means, but the full touch looks pretty generic compared to the rest of the market and the keyboard style looks too much like the 9900 for me.
    10-03-12 09:50 PM
  14. offroadjunkie's Avatar
    bbx is what they first started calling bb10. but i read here somewhere that they can't use the letters bbx cause of a copyright somewhere. x is the roman numeral for 10.

    i can't speak for everyone but imo they key to blackberries succed isn't the shape of the phone, it has to be more user friendly.

    when iphone first came out then later android, they were just so easy to use compared to blackberries at that time.. most consumers aren't going to spend months to figure out that their bb can do almost everything a droid or iphone can do. they don't care that the bb's are more reliable and their info is more secure.

    i think the average user is only concerned with how long it takes them to figure out how to use it. i was a bb user for 3 years b4 i switched to android. i switched because i still couldn't figure out what a smart phone was capable of. and android and ios made that plane and simple. " there's an app for that."

    now that i spent 1 1/2 years with android i have realized that bb's are capable of doing everything i need to do on a smart phone. (i speak for myself.) and my used 9650 is a solid, cheap replacement for my dead gnex.

    soon i will buy a playbook. i think a playbook +9650 or a 9930 will be a solid replacement for my gnex. most of the free android apps only half way worked and the games were geared more to children imo.

    ehhhh i ramble on...........

    sprint bold 9650 p.s. android sucks. lol
    10-03-12 10:36 PM
  15. vegas33139's Avatar
    It is certainly the unfortunate rule of American society anyway; looks are apparently everything.

    Written from BitPusher's BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk
    It's certainly not just the US. It's certainly the case here in merry England. I was out shopping the other day and though I would pop-in the the first phone shop. Human behaviourism fascinates me and I decided to hang around a bit just to watch shoppers in the phone shop.

    8/10 John Doe's (Joe Bloggs here in the UK) made straight for the good looking phones that jump off the shelf and shout 'buy me'. only 1 person sort of wondered to the BB section but the big shiney screens with the eye catching brushed chrome and bright colours and materialistic branding got the better of him!

    Society has become sooooooooo materialistic, especially younger people. if it hasn't got a 5" Amoled screen or a bit shiney Apple logo embedded in the back, youngsters, 'generally' don't want to know.

    Ok, BB10 will imho be a hit with users looking for more functionality, but that's it I'm afraid, along with a few curious byers and the ever faithfull blackberry army. Not the masses RIM are hoping for, praying for even!

    This is my opinion only but, the initial units to be launched have to .... have to have some element of the wow factor because people will go into the shop enquire what those phones are over there, the assistant will tell them that's the new BB10 range and the customer will say say 'oh, thanks', can you tell me if you stock the latest Android phones?

    I am 100% confident in the OS, but very worried that the if the leaked images are in-fact close to what the final design is going to be, than I'm worried, very worried for RIM.

    RIM knows that this is it, sh*t or bust. If the whole BB10 team thinks that a mediocre 'first' design is going to reel in new punters to BB, then it really will be goodnight Vienna.
    10-04-12 03:54 AM
  16. FunktasticLucky's Avatar
    Going off build and design of current handsets I would have to disagree heavily. The 9850 and my Japanese 9900 are BEAUTIFUL devices. They are built like tanks too. Just recently I was back home on leave in the States and my brother and I took a weekend trip up to Sandusky OH to goto Cedar point. The 2nd day I was there we road a launch coaster called the Maverick. it jerks you around a lot and it has a top speed of like 67MPH or so. Well lets just say after the ride my 9850 was no longer in my pocket I went the entire day without a phone. We called it from my brothers phone and it was still ringing so we knew it was on. They found it after the park closed and did their track walks. it has no case or screen protector. It has some minor scratches that you can't see unless you turn it in the light and a very tiny crack at the top of the phone on the lock button. Doesn't hamper the use of the device at all. THe most damage came from the A$$hole who pried the back of the phone off instead of hitting the button just to steal my encrypted SD card. Guess that's how that goes. Just saying... BB's are durable devices hands down.
    10-04-12 04:28 AM
  17. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    *cough-cough* Can anybody show an official design of what will be released in Q1 ?
    nope.
    Devices that have been borrowed for "in-hands sessions" does not seem to be anything but similar to the final devices (and yet, the nonfunctional QWERTY has been leaked once in a vid (+overlays), that's all)

    hold.your.breath.keep.the.faith.they.said.they.wil l.surprise.mucho
    10-04-12 05:31 AM
  18. Mazinger's Avatar
    All very valid points indeed guys. Now that I've had some time to digest all the points on these new designs we are seeing leaked out, i just realized it is too early to criticize. I guess i was just carried away by my expectations that these new devices would be "game changing" physically as well.

    After seeing the internal specs of the hardware, i must admit it is already a huge step up. The move to remove the trackpad in favor of an all touch bold model can also be considered innovative..i guess it's unfair to expect too much too soon and i should probably stop looking at concept designs as well

    To top it all, you're right. There's no final design until something official comes out.

    By the way, i'll stop using BBX, thanks for correcting me

    For a bit of a throwback, here's one of the most durable handsets ive had from RIM..i got it brand new when i still had more hair and it is still running as good as the day i got it...



    Tapatalk for BlackBerry�
    Attached Thumbnails Is BB10 Making the Same Mistake All Over Again??-tapaupload0.jpg   Is BB10 Making the Same Mistake All Over Again??-tapaupload1.jpg  
    10-05-12 01:44 AM
  19. ichat's Avatar
    Dude, once you get into the form factor of a touchscreen, there isn't so much you can do. I mean, the little you even want to try doing would be stopped by apple.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9860 on 7.1.0.714 with Tapatalk and my fingers
    10-05-12 01:48 AM
  20. G-bone's Avatar
    I still call it BB X. They can't stop us from calling it that. Anyway...I am not gonna get too worked up about the design just yet. As Superfly FR pointed out (I speak English like a Spanish cow? Supe, yer killin' me! ), we really don't know what it is all gonna look like. All I know is I'm buying at least 2.
    Yeah, there's not much you can do with all-touch, and, no, apple ain't ever gonna sue RIM. The first iphone was a direct touchscreen rip-off of RIM. There ain't much you can put on an iphone that RIM didn't do first. Rounded corners? Check. Metal bezel? Check. Icons? Check. You smell what I'm cooking. Perhaps RIM should sue Apple for making a smartphone.
    Anyway, I'm sure it'll be beautiful. It doesn't matter too much. The OS is freaking gorgeous! And no hourglass?
    Now that is beautiful! ; )
    10-05-12 02:57 AM
  21. TgeekB's Avatar
    Advertising will play a key role in its success. If people see what it can do in a commercial, it will look darned sexy. That will get people to go pick one up and try it at a store. Otherwise they may never give it a thought.
    julianrt likes this.
    10-05-12 08:44 AM
  22. LoganSix's Avatar
    hope RIM takes some tips from KIA and HYUNDAI
    And steal design ideas from other manufacturers?

    Would the "Same mistakes all over again" be the one where they created a keyboard that made the phone look like a berry, but is was the most functional keyboard ever and still is? That kind of mistake?
    10-05-12 09:03 AM
  23. mrfreetruth's Avatar
    Is BB10 making the sme mistake all over again? What are you talking about? The real question is..... Are the trolls still making up stuff to complain about?
    10-05-12 09:13 AM
  24. kfh227's Avatar
    One of your statements is flawed.

    I read an article about someone that saw a prototype. The rumor from this person is that there will be a white and black version available. The white phone looks way better than the iPhone anything according to the author.

    RIMM gets accused of resting on it's laurels. meanwhile Android and iOS provide hte user the same interface that has existed for 5 years now. it's not RIMM that is repeating their mistakes. It is Apple and Google not learning from RIMMs mistakes.
    10-05-12 02:16 PM
  25. pythons's Avatar
    Myself I think the 9900 is the best looking Blackberry RIM has ever produced as far as a QWERTY goes.....
    ...The BB10 QWERTY does not at all look attractive to me.
    ...But the full touch screen one sure does!
    10-05-12 02:35 PM
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