[garrettind]

Ok, here is my impression of the torch! The phone is great and the sync with outlook works perfectly. I got the phone on Saturday and was on a 25 dollar data plan with Bell Mobility. I played with a number of the different apps and the phone is set up to use my wifi system. On Monday I downgraded my service to unlimited email and texting. To my surprise a large number of the applications no longer work! The facebook app for example no longer works and give an error message. I can understand the apps not working on the 3g system since I was told that the bb data package did not include my unlimited email and texting but what gets me is that the apps no longer work via my wifi! What the heck!!! An app should run wifi even if you don�t have the bb data package! It almost looks like a way to force people to spend more by locking them into a data package!
I�m not trying to knock the product and I love the phone for what I have as requirements but it is disappointing not to have these apps via wifi!

[pbflash]

Whether on WiFi or the cellular network, the data still goes through the BIS server. If you remove the BB data plan, you no longer have access to the BIS server so the apps will not work.

[Dvx67]

I am not certain, but with some providers WIFI will not connect if you don't have a data package. And WIFI data can also count against your data usage. There isn't much point in having a BB if you aren't willing to pay for data service.

[garrettind]

It's a great phone and I get what I need. After seeing other phones this was the one that best suites my needs due to the outlook syncronization, telephone and wifi features! I just find it a little pathetic that the apps don't work if you don't have the bb data plan. It would have thought that all the apps would work a little like the ipad or ipod that don't have a plan but run on the wifi networks anyway!

[Dvx67]

Call your provider and take it up with them. It's not a phone issue. There isn't much point in having any smart phone if your not willing to pay for data service.

[ridesno159]

Whether on WiFi or the cellular network, the data still goes through the BIS server. If you remove the BB data plan, you no longer have access to the BIS server so the apps will not work.

This is true... Other then you can use the "hotspot" browser on wifi. The hotspot browser doesn't need/use RIM's servers to function, this is true whether you have a BB data plan or not.

There are a number of apps that will not work without a BB data plan: Facebook, BBM, AIM, Yahoo IM, etc. Most of the Google apps also require BB data. There are a number of apps that do work fine over wifi though, check this threads out.

http://forums.crackberry.com/f65/wif...s-list-462539/

[pbflash]

There is no 'hotspot' browser on the Torch. The Torch's webkit browser will work on the cellular network or wifi. It will choose wifi over cell when there is a wifi connection.

[Fubaz]

*facepalm*

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[taylortbb]

I just find it a little pathetic that the apps don't work if you don't have the bb data plan. It would have thought that all the apps would work a little like the ipad or ipod that don't have a plan but run on the wifi networks anyway!

When you're an app developer there's two types of connection you can have your app open, BIS or direct TCP. Some apps lets you choose which one in the options. An app which only uses direct TCP will work fine on WiFi, it's communicating directly with the internet/network. Apps which use BIS are routed via RIM's servers. If you're not paying for a BB data plan you can't really expect RIM to route your data, as it costs them money and you aren't paying anything. Because most users have BB plans, and BIS connections use less data and are easier on the battery, most developers use BIS connections for most things (they do have some limitations). Any RIM-developed apps (including all the IM and social networking apps, even if they're branded for someone else) of course use BIS.