[Bajanbastard]

Just wondering if any other long time RIM fans are looking to take a temporary hiatus from BBs until RIM stops with their crap (Same boring OS, Email limitations, releasing the same phones over and over) I'm on my 7th BB model and although I love BBM and the messaging capabilities of the phones, I can no longer stand the same old same old from RIM. I'm no longer interested in the Storm 2 or Onyx due to the fact that they are basically the same as their predecessors with minor upgrades. Shoot the 9700 is a bit of a downgrade from the 9000 IMHO.

Anyway if you share the same feelings as I do. What are you looking @ right now?

Andriod, (G1, Sholes) Web OS (no Pre for me that keyboard is awful) played with a Touch Pro 2 today. Liked it. The N900 (Maemo) is looking hot as well.

Would like to hear your thoughts.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[coachcurtisbusse]

Well for me it would be the trackball that has me taking a break and mem my curve run slow as heck and I dnt have barley and 3dparty apps its crazy

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[itch808]

Once my contract ends, Android for me!

Unless Palm brings out a GSM Pre with a better keyboard

CYA RIM!

[xliderider]

I'm most likely going to be getting the Droid when it comes out, if not that, then the Verizon version of the HTC Hero/Desire (if I can hold out that long). Both are Android devices.

I'm glad the mods have created an Android section here at CB. I won't have to leave the best online community in the world.

I agree, RIM needs to get with the program and fast, or they will be left in the dust. Oh they will have the Enterprise market, but will that be enough, and for how long?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[amazinglygraceless]

BajanB I have been saying the same for a while and I do share
your sentiments on the S2 and 9700.

Right now my 8900 is essential only because I need to react to
tons of email very quickly and push makes that happen.

When the new Android phone drops I have a buyer for my iPhone
3GS and I am definitely picking that up.

I also have a Nokia E71x which could very well wind up being
my primary phone.

I really have a sense that RIM is making a huge mistake by
retreading existing phones while everyone around them
are doing new and innovative things.

Every phone after the 8100 has been a retread of something
they already did.

And don't EVEN get me started on the OS. This thing hasn't
had any material changes in a decade.

[Bajanbastard]

AG. Same here my Pearl was so cool when I first got it. The 9000/8900 were great upgrades when I got them. But now its all meh. If I got a next BB its going to be the same as the last one. Nothing new. You know RIM needs to do something when BlackBerry users get super excited over a black boot up screen.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[amazinglygraceless]

I thought the Pearl was awesome, the went to the 8310 > Bold >
8900 an honestly the Pearl and the 8900 were really the only
big thrills.

The 8310 was nice, but basically a Pearl with full qwerty. The Bold
was nice but was basically a Curve that needed a diet. The 8900
I think is the best BB on the market right now but by no means
innovative.

I actually get more excited about new apps (most of which are
to patch holes in the OS) than I do about the OS. I don't even
look at the 5.0's anymore because I know they will nothing
more than the lower versions with a bit of eye-candy.

[a_silent_song]

I'm sticking with my 8900 personally. It does everything I need it to do, and I don't have the time, patience, or will to sit down and learn a whole new OS, to be honest.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[l1tech]

I've enjoyed doing all the upgrades and tweaks that have come along for my Storm, but really no excitement left. It works well and serves its purpose but annual upgrade time in Nov. and was thinking S2 but really not too excited. Same but different. RIM needs to up their game. I know there's stuff in the works, but who knows how long. Nothing seems to happen too quickly there.
With the Android devices coming and reading up on them (and a trip to the sprint store to fondle the HTC Hero - very nice), I think I'm going to step away from my BB addiction and try a new drug and patiently watch the RIM progression. You can always go back.

[bb2iphone]

Novelty of a any different smartphone be it an iphone or android OS phone will wear off quickly - I've tried it by switching from windows mobile (professional and standard) to palm to android for a little while and now I'm back to blackberry. Whenever I play with another smartphone at a sprint store I feel like I just wanna try it for a little while and take a break from my BB but i realized that unless one is looking for radically more functionality I would say reliability is the way to go and that is best achieved with Blackberry phones / OS. Additionally with the release of OS 5.0 RIM is opening api's for developers for better 3rd party software integration and the advent of useful widgets should make the OS experience more interesting. Perhaps in the next 6 months we can also see a new browser update release by RIM that'll make internet browsing experience so much more satisfying.

[katiepea]

sticking to rim till it ends, sold iphone to come here, grass is always greener, nothing else is appealing to me, no other platform is as open as this, and i like to play.

[amazinglygraceless]

This isn't about "novelty" and you should not diminish it as such.

As to what we can "expect" all indications is that we can expect
to be continually pushed phones that have no marked difference
than the devices that came before them.

More apps? Please. If I want more (and more useless apps) I'd
totally commit to my iPhone and have all the farting, beer
drinking simulations, shaken baby apps as I could cram on to
this thing. That is not even a proposition you should even
bother trying to defend. Widgets? Give me a break already.

Bottom line RIM needs to step up or sit down and get left behind,
PERIOD.

The OS needs a top to bottom overhaul and it's device lineup
needs to take a bold (pun intended) and radical departure from
what they are doing now. At one point they were the best in
the smartphone arena, now everyone else is throwing the curve
(pun equally intended)

[xliderider]

sticking to rim till it ends, sold iphone to come here, grass is always greener, nothing else is appealing to me, no other platform is as open as this, and i like to play.

Oh the irony in your statement about RIM having the most open platform.

The Blackberry platform is anything but open.

Wouldn't that be Google's Android platform you are talking about?

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[katiepea]

far from it, show me another platform where theres a myriad of OS's to choose from like RIM, i thoroughly enjoy my blackberry, and it offers the most options, i have no interest in android, and honestly don't think it will survive very long, nobody cares about it in masses.

i'm speaking from the viewpoint of i can clearly remember when i bought the iphone, thought it was the best phone around, and when i look back i still think it was at that time, however when the bold came out, and my gf got one, i played with it, and came to the realization that my iphone was a TOY compared to the bold. if i switched to android i really think i'd end up at the same conclusion. i am too in love with the services that RIM offers me, i don't need some mind blowing eye candy, altho i do admit if the next OS isn't completely different they'll die, i have multi push email accounts, a nice media player, frequently leaked os's, ability to add apps at my will, a HUGE community, all my friends have bb's so bbm is nice, i can watch high quality movies and tv shows on the subway on my way travelling....it does everything i want it to.

[amazinglygraceless]

far from it, show me another platform where theres a myriad of OS's to choose from like RIM, i thoroughly enjoy my blackberry, and it offers the most options, i have no interest in android, and honestly don't think it will survive very long, nobody cares about it in masses.

Myriad of OS's? They are all the same damn OS just ported for different
devices.

Open simply means developers don't have to jump through RIMs insane
strictures to create an app. Every other platform has at least 5x the number
apps than are available for the BB. THAT is open.

Furthermore, the "myriad" of OS's is because they can't get ONE right.
This many OS versions (per device) and this many leaks upon leaks
does not strike me a a badge of merit.

[Bajanbastard]

Oh man. Not the "BB is a manly mans phone!" "XXXX phone is a toy" line.

You're talking about the leaked OS like they are something special. Within the past few years the only leaks that were worth getting excited over were 4.5 and now 5.0 and excitement over the minor functionality upgrades and added fonts goes away quickly.

Really what's the difference between 4.2, 4.3, 4.5, 4.6. 4.6.1, 4.7 and 4.7.1?

[bb2iphone]

What kind of overhaul are you looking for exactly? A better gui? More functionality? Different design/ergonomics? All three of those are currently sufficient and I bet if we were to survey blackberry users of all modes and types we would find consistently higher scores of those three aspects.

I have seen these generalized comments dropped elsewhere before but it really bears no pragmatic use. Radically changing something like BB designs and/or OS which I venture most BB users already like is a big risk, and as long as BIS and BES are consistently updated to support more functionality I don't see RIM falling behind like other platforms.

That was Palm's one biggest shortcoming, there was nothing unique it offered in terms of messaging and security - though you could find apps for it from here till next November and users loved the front facing keyboard and solid design of the legacy Treo style. Their second chance, WebOS, I don't think will make it in the longer run either because there's still nothing there particularly unique to offer.

Windows Mobile 7, similar to WebOS, which is supposedly a huge overhaul to the WindowsCE platform is meant to 'fix' something already broken. For years windows mobile users have had a strong love-hate relationship with Windows Mobile. Those who loved it, only really did so because you could hack it oblivion. For everyone else, the only thing that saved Windows Mobile over the last few years, imo, is all the glorified junk HTC puts on top of it to make it look nice and somewhat usable. Their "unique" offering will be powerful processors that can decode/encode high quality multimedia on the fly and maybe a Zune overlay, but apple will still beat Windows 7 to the punch with future iphones because it's been in the market longer and has attracted many ex-winmo users and business users are making the transition seeing that the only truly unique offering "exchange support" is now available on the iphone.

Nokia will probably only succeed in the tablet version of its OS because there's nothing there unique to offer with Symbian OS. Nokia is trying that free music subscription with purchase of some devices to draw users and maybe that's what will keep it competitive.

Android will survive and succeed because out of the box it's uniquely tied to pretty most if not all google services (mail, calendar, contacts, voice, etc) and the web.

The bottom line is that I believe RIM will survive because of it's push email service and security options/offerings to corp users. For everything else - RIM has already stepped up by buying Torch mobile. It's stepped up even more touch screen offerings. I think they're safe.

[katiepea]

Myriad of OS's? They are all the same damn OS just ported for different
devices.

Open simply means developers don't have to jump through RIMs insane
strictures to create an app. Every other platform has at least 5x the number
apps than are available for the BB. THAT is open.

Furthermore, the "myriad" of OS's is because they can't get ONE right.
This many OS versions (per device) and this many leaks upon leaks
does not strike me a a badge of merit.

more apps doesn't not equate openness, the app store has 85k apps, and i felt more restricted on the iphone than i do with RIM. moot point. as i've stated before in other similar threads 2 years ago me and 11 people i know bought iphones, nobody has it anymore, i think we're all fine with our blackberry's and if i wasn't i wouldn't have a problems ditching it, if you aren't maybe its time you do. but personally, theres nothing making me even consider it.

[katiepea]

What kind of overhaul are you looking for exactly? A better gui? More functionality? Different design/ergonomics? All three of those are currently sufficient and I bet if we were to survey blackberry users of all modes and types we would find consistently higher scores of those three aspects.

I have seen these generalized comments dropped elsewhere before but it really bears no pragmatic use. Radically changing something like BB designs and/or OS which I venture most BB users already like is a big risk, and as long as BIS and BES are consistently updated to support more functionality I don't see RIM falling behind like other platforms.

That was Palm's one biggest shortcoming, there was nothing unique it offered in terms of messaging and security - though you could find apps for it from here till next November and users loved the front facing keyboard and solid design of the legacy Treo style. Their second chance, WebOS, I don't think will make it in the longer run either because there's still nothing there particularly unique to offer.

Windows Mobile 7, similar to WebOS, which is supposedly a huge overhaul to the WindowsCE platform is meant to 'fix' something already broken. For years windows mobile users have had a strong love-hate relationship with Windows Mobile. Those who loved it, only really did so because you could hack it oblivion. For everyone else, the only thing that saved Windows Mobile over the last few years, imo, is all the glorified junk HTC puts on top of it to make it look nice and somewhat usable. Their "unique" offering will be powerful processors that can decode/encode high quality multimedia on the fly and maybe a Zune overlay, but apple will still beat Windows 7 to the punch with future iphones because it's been in the market longer and has attracted many ex-winmo users and business users are making the transition seeing that the only truly unique offering "exchange support" is now available on the iphone.

Nokia will probably only succeed in the tablet version of its OS because there's nothing there unique to offer with Symbian OS. Nokia is trying that free music subscription with purchase of some devices to draw users and maybe that's what will keep it competitive.

Android will survive and succeed because out of the box it's uniquely tied to pretty most if not all google services (mail, calendar, contacts, voice, etc) and the web.

The bottom line is that I believe RIM will survive because of it's push email service and security options/offerings to corp users. For everything else - RIM has already stepped up by buying Torch mobile. It's stepped up even more touch screen offerings. I think they're safe.

by radical change, they need to move out of JVM and run a genuine operating system. they simply can't keep band aiding this one.

[bb2iphone]

There's nothing to fix. Java is platform independent so anyone can code for it. Opening more API's to the BB OS will allow better integration. Openness is something to be desired, but what does it functionally accomplish? Happier developers? Free, lost cost apps? That's not really unique. We've seen it before with winmo. Honestly the JAVA environment is sufficient for me and as as long as I can multitask seamlessly with bb I'm a happy camper.

[amazinglygraceless]

I have seen these generalized comments dropped elsewhere before but it really bears no pragmatic use. Radically changing something like BB designs and/or OS which I venture most BB users already like is a big risk, and as long as BIS and BES are consistently updated to support more functionality I don't see RIM falling behind like other platforms.

...and here is where your hypothesis completely falls apart.

If you were speaking pre 8100, I'd agree. But that is not where we are.

RIM targeted the consumer space and a younger audience but still insists on
selling them their fathers phone.

The Pearl changed RIMs image forever. Only problem is they don't seem
to get that.

Trackball, memory card, multimedia capability, camera, video recording,
GPS etc... and yet they still hold on to this stodgy, underwhelming
OS.

That same market they so skilfully captured with the Pearl, Curve and
Bold will bolt the minute something better comes along. Ask Nokia, they
get the overflow.

As to the OS let's try this. BB is considered the king of messaging and
especially email. Great.

1) can you create a template in the native email client
2) mail from said template
3) create custom category folders
4) add email events to your calendar
5) add email events to your task manager
6) sort your email EASILY by date, subject, or sender
7) access any and all websites at will without the advent of a 3rd party browser
8) do you have full Flash support
9) can you designate which contact area to assign a new number
etc... etc... etc....

You want me to let you in on a little secret. Shhhhhhhh, with the exception
of Flash I was doing all of this on an Audiovox Maestro, back in 2002.

[Bajanbastard]

What kind of overhaul are you looking for exactly? A better gui? More functionality? Different design/ergonomics? All three of those are currently sufficient and I bet if we were to survey blackberry users of all modes and types we would find consistently higher scores of those three aspects.

I have seen these generalized comments dropped elsewhere before but it really bears no pragmatic use. Radically changing something like BB designs and/or OS which I venture most BB users already like is a big risk, and as long as BIS and BES are consistently updated to support more functionality I don't see RIM falling behind like other platforms.

That was Palm's one biggest shortcoming, there was nothing unique it offered in terms of messaging and security - though you could find apps for it from here till next November and users loved the front facing keyboard and solid design of the legacy Treo style. Their second chance, WebOS, I don't think will make it in the longer run either because there's still nothing there particularly unique to offer.

Windows Mobile 7, similar to WebOS, which is supposedly a huge overhaul to the WindowsCE platform is meant to 'fix' something already broken. For years windows mobile users have had a strong love-hate relationship with Windows Mobile. Those who loved it, only really did so because you could hack it oblivion. For everyone else, the only thing that saved Windows Mobile over the last few years, imo, is all the glorified junk HTC puts on top of it to make it look nice and somewhat usable. Their "unique" offering will be powerful processors that can decode/encode high quality multimedia on the fly and maybe a Zune overlay, but apple will still beat Windows 7 to the punch with future iphones because it's been in the market longer and has attracted many ex-winmo users and business users are making the transition seeing that the only truly unique offering "exchange support" is now available on the iphone.

Nokia will probably only succeed in the tablet version of its OS because there's nothing there unique to offer with Symbian OS. Nokia is trying that free music subscription with purchase of some devices to draw users and maybe that's what will keep it competitive.

Android will survive and succeed because out of the box it's uniquely tied to pretty most if not all google services (mail, calendar, contacts, voice, etc) and the web.

The bottom line is that I believe RIM will survive because of it's push email service and security options/offerings to corp users. For everything else - RIM has already stepped up by buying Torch mobile. It's stepped up even more touch screen offerings. I think they're safe.

I'd have to disagree with your first point. RIM makes some nice hardware (or at least used to) the Bold, 8900, Tour, Storm and pearl flip (especially) all had hardware issues. They seem to be back making solid hardware now (my 8520 is very solid).

Look at all the devices that came out since the 9000/8900 all the same thing (except the Storm obviously)

Now look at the "next gen" devices. 9700 = smaller 9000 with trackpad.

9550/20 = What the 95XX should have been. (RIM should thank the Storm faithful for the free beta testing)

Essex = Tour with TP and WiFi

Atlas = 8900 with TP.

Striker = Pearl + 512 processor, 256MB flash, 3.2MP camera and TP (not confirmed but common we all know that is most likely what's under the hood)


The push email mantra they have been repeating for the past few years won't be an advantage much much longer.

I'm a consumer and could care less about corporate security and BES. Thanks for the input though its appreciated. It's 5AM i'm off to bed.

[bb2iphone]

So the storm2 was dad's phone? Dad's phone didn't have a trackball or high res screen. It didn't have support for external storage either. It had a side rocker and it was bulky as a brick. Let's be fair.

I can agree with some of that other stuff BB os doesn't natively support like the templates and I can think of some other things, but that's not anything radical and some are even trivial nuisances. C'mon designate which contact area to assign a new number? Sorting email is already covered. Is that what's gonna make you jump ship? We already know that flash support is coming to BB soon so I don't how that applies.

Yeah I was doing so much more on my ppc6700 with sprint. I even had flash support 2 years back. I had a kitchen for it and was cooking ROMs every two days with new materials from XDA and ppcgeeks. It was a thrill, but it wasn't consistent nor was it reliable. Can you say the same for BB?

[bb2iphone]

I'd have to disagree with your first point. RIM makes some nice hardware (or at least used to) the Bold, 8900, Tour, Storm and pearl flip (especially) all had hardware issues. They seem to be back making solid hardware now (my 8520 is very solid).

Look at all the devices that came out since the 9000/8900 all the same thing (except the Storm obviously)

Now look at the "next gen" devices. 9700 = smaller 9000 with trackpad.

9550/20 = What the 95XX should have been. (RIM should thank the Storm faithful for the free beta testing)

Essex = Tour with TP and WiFi

Atlas = 8900 with TP.

Striker = Pearl + 512 processor, 256MB flash, 3.2MP camera and TP (not confirmed but common we all know that is most likely what's under the hood)


The push email mantra they have been repeating for the past few years won't be an advantage much much longer.

I'm a consumer and could care less about corporate security and BES. Thanks for the input though its appreciated. It's 5AM i'm off to bed.

None of those you mention with maybe the exception of the storm2 are "next gen". They are more like one of the final refinement versions of a current line. Next gen most likely entails more powerful processors (e.g. ARM cortex), touch screen - hardware keyboard combos, significantly lesser profile designs, nxtgen Bluetooth, high RES AMOLED screens, 4G support, and improved battery life. We already know that RIM is releasing 16 new phones in 2010 the latter part of that year will probably show the new gen devices.

[amazinglygraceless]

So the storm2 was dad's phone? Dad's phone didn't have a trackball or high res screen. It didn't have support for external storage either. It had a side rocker and it was bulky as a brick. Let's be fair.

I can agree with some of that other stuff BB os doesn't natively support like the templates and I can think of some other things, but that's not anything radical and some are even trivial nuisances. C'mon designate which contact area to assign a new number? Sorting email is already covered. Is that what's gonna make you jump ship? We already know that flash support is coming to BB soon so I don't how that applies.

Do you even realize that you are making my point for me.
For whatever dad did not have, his kid is saddled with the same OS.

It applies because if you look at the demographic shift of BB users you
will see that it is younger and non-professional. Just let the user say where
they want the contact to go. Or maybe you haven't seen the hundreds of
threads asking why this is not possible.

As to me jumping ship, that is irrelevant. My point was that all the people
that RIM brought in with their "tarted up" retreads will.

One more thing, if I have to pay for an app to fix something the RIMs
development team did not have the foresight to get right, THAT is more
than a nuisance. THAT is a downright disgrace to the meaning of development.