08-30-08 02:08 PM
26 12
tools
  1. slinky#CB's Avatar
    If there is one thing that I positively hate about the Blackberry more than anything I've ever encountered on the Palm or Windows Mobile, it's the dreaded "simple OTA install" with the Blackberry. OTA = Over The Air for those of you who are new, meaning that the application downloads directly to your phone and, in many instances, cannot be downloaded to your PC hard drive for backup. Numerous vendors have this method which ensures that I'm screwed because I can't adequately backup the files and reinstall, especially if I do an OS upgrade.

    I'm considering writing an article on the "Blackberry Download Insurance Scam" because that's what it seems to be. I'd like to have a little more information from others with perhaps a different perspective and a little more experience with the OTA and backup - which is not a simple process with the Blackberry.

    Let's start with "Software Updates": Webmessenger, a great piece of software. I bought it from Handango, cannot be downloaded from Handango because doing so after 30 days requires "download insurance." For the life of me I don't understand why I need to buy insurance to get reasonable updates that I pay for. If there is a bug found, what do I do after 30 days? The nice people at Webmessenger gave me a download link for an OTA download. Unfortunately this is not my original install file and, should the link ever fail to work, I'm screwed with no backup. If I'm in another country with my BB and have no Internet service (although I may have a phone connection), any app that requires reinstall is hosed.

    Let's move onto the example of Dataviz - you pay $50-80 for your Documents to Go software. You get 5 "downloads" of the software before you too have to buy "download insurance." The downloads are not like those for the Palm and Windows Mobile - these too are OTA. I recently upgraded my system software twice with my Blackberry. Guess what? I've lost 2 "downloads" -- or should I call them "installs?" Dataviz seems to want to push the "insurance" to the tune of $3 per every 5 installs. Now I'm trying to figure out why I'm paying for "insurance" for something I can't backup myself. The developer made it impossible for me to practically back up the software so now I'm getting hit in the teeth with insurance?

    I'd love to get your opinions. Unfortunately this practice which occurs regularly in the Blackberry world is sufficient to question the viability of the platform outside the corporate environment, which it was designed for and still shows painful growth strain.
    08-29-08 12:12 PM
  2. pltaylor's Avatar
    08-29-08 12:15 PM
  3. sunkast's Avatar
    If there is one thing that I positively hate about the Blackberry more than anything I've ever encountered on the Palm or Windows Mobile, it's the dreaded "simple OTA install" with the Blackberry. OTA = Over The Air for those of you who are new, meaning that the application downloads directly to your phone and, in many instances, cannot be downloaded to your PC hard drive for backup. Numerous vendors have this method which ensures that I'm screwed because I can't adequately backup the files and reinstall, especially if I do an OS upgrade.
    If you do an OS upgrade, it will ask if you want to back up and restore third party apps. Also, there is a method to back up your third party apps on your own.

    How do I backup my Third Party Applications on my BB? - BlackBerryFAQ
    Q&A How to Backup your 3rd party applications to your PC | BerryReview.com
    08-29-08 12:17 PM
  4. Grafixx01#AC's Avatar
    Oh I DO! I'm going to try the links though cause I HATE doing OS upgrades then having to go back and try to find where I got the OTAs from.

    That'll make my IE and FireFox bookmarks go WAY WAY DOWN!
    08-29-08 12:19 PM
  5. bmcclure937's Avatar
    Honestly, I stopped reading after the paragraph... because this thread is a useless rant

    You actuall can backup all of your applications, OTA or not. Follow the thread by Crucial (posted aboved).

    That will create a backup of all the application .alx and .cod files on your PC.

    Alternatively, you could save the .jad file to a microSD card and use that to install yo your device as well.

    But, the fact of the matter is that OTA is easy and able to be backed up easily as well

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-29-08 12:19 PM
  6. fonebrkr's Avatar
    You're fast...precongrats to the new "master"..

    I used to do all my installs OTA, then I got more into having them on my pc for upgrades.
    The link above covers everything though
    08-29-08 12:19 PM
  7. slinky#CB's Avatar
    Didn't work for me. I couldn't find the folder in Vista and believe me, I tried.

    That said, why in heck should any person who purchases a phone have to join a forum and do searches to find WORKAROUNDS to backing up your files properly and then HOPE they reinstall?

    More importantly, why aren't Blackberry software developers providing the users with the ENTIRE install packages ourselves? This occurs even with software that has serial numbers that must be entered AND requires a connection to the company online to activate. That second step is another terrible experience on the Blackberry. If you've ever switched phones or upgraded, you'll know exactly what I mean. You might as well take an entire day off to contact EVERY manufacturer to issue you a new serial number after providing your PIN. Only a select few allow you to generate a new code (and you must be connected online to register.)
    08-29-08 12:20 PM
  8. asylvia's Avatar
    Just do backups through DM and your **** will be backed up

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-29-08 12:21 PM
  9. John Yester's Avatar
    If you do an OS upgrade, it will ask if you want to back up and restore third party apps. Also, there is a method to back up your third party apps on your own.

    How do I backup my Third Party Applications on my BB? - BlackBerryFAQ
    Q&A How to Backup your 3rd party applications to your PC | BerryReview.com
    Honestly, I stopped reading after the paragraph... because this thread is a useless rant

    You actuall can backup all of your applications, OTA or not. Follow the thread by Crucial (posted aboved).

    That will create a backup of all the application .alx and .cod files on your PC.

    Alternatively, you could save the .jad file to a microSD card and use that to install yo your device as well.

    But, the fact of the matter is that OTA is easy and able to be backed up easily as well

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Both very well said.....


    Hopefully the OP will find a answer to his problems...
    08-29-08 12:21 PM
  10. csiguy1's Avatar
    I really like OTA installs, it just works for me.
    08-29-08 12:29 PM
  11. MaggieMcCoy87's Avatar
    My pearl actually for some reason only lets me do OTA. I can't transfer to it from my Mac or my PC. =(

    Its really annoying and idk why it does it!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-29-08 12:31 PM
  12. Pete6's Avatar
    OTA is a central pillar of how the BlackBerry works under BES. That is why it is there.

    For BIS users it is a way of getting apps an themes onto your phone quickly and without the need for a PC connection.

    I try to avoid OTA because I prefer to keep my installed app in a folder, on my PC
    08-29-08 12:35 PM
  13. bmcclure937's Avatar
    Thank you Sunkast. Honestly, if Slinky would follow the threads we posted, all would be fine! It works, Vista and XP

    And we cannot solve these "problems" that RIM have caused for you... we can only supply work-arounds that all work 100% fine! That process is absolutely flawless.

    And the complaint about getting a new device or upgrading is mute as well, because the Switch Device Wizard covers all of that stuff. And, when upgrading the OS... follow my Proper Upgrade/Downgrade Procedure thread and all apps and settings will be backed up and restored.

    And, please do not personally attack me and throw insults when members jump to help you. That attitude is poor and unprofessional for such a "professional" business man, or whatever you call yourself!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-29-08 12:37 PM
  14. Javaddict's Avatar
    Honestly, I stopped reading after the paragraph... because this thread is a useless rant

    You actually can backup all of your applications, OTA or not. Follow the thread by Crucial (posted aboved).
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    I agree I was thinking "rant time" one of the things I love about OTA is that it's so easy.
    08-29-08 12:37 PM
  15. sunkast's Avatar
    Didn't work for me. I couldn't find the folder in Vista and believe me, I tried.
    I had a hard time finding the folder at first too. One of the other posts I read suggested to try this on the computer: Go to Start > Run. Type in %temp% and hit enter. This brought up the folder which had my PIN and the backed up files.
    08-29-08 12:37 PM
  16. bmcclure937's Avatar
    You can also do an advanced search for your PIN #, and remember to enable hidden and system folders for the search!!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-29-08 12:41 PM
  17. slinky#CB's Avatar
    I had a hard time finding the folder at first too. One of the other posts I read suggested to try this on the computer: Go to Start > Run. Type in %temp% and hit enter. This brought up the folder which had my PIN and the backed up files.
    Hmmm... it could be a permissions problem in Vista - not quite unexpected?

    Thanks for the intelligent reply. As I should have expected, it's too much to expect anything intelligent from a bunch of people who have little to do all day but play around with themselves and their Blackberries to find all sorts of little workarounds - just like you've provided me with, thank you.

    In their endless inability to focus except for dumping posts here, the Crackberry zealots have yet to answer the question why Blackberry developers don't provide you with the install files themselves as an option to download to PC and backup just like on other platforms.
    08-29-08 01:04 PM
  18. slinky#CB's Avatar
    You can also do an advanced search for your PIN #, and remember to enable hidden and system folders for the search!!
    Of course I did that. As another posted, it could be a Windows Vista permissions issue because my PIN didn't show up. I followed the instructions to a "T". Fortunately the other poster gave me another way regarding this WORKAROUND. It's not a bona fide regular method or you'd see it in the blackberry manual. This is probably incredibly hard for the average phone owner.

    But you still fail to answer the question - why aren't many Blackberry developers simply giving us the install files to make reinstallation EASY? Why do I have to go through several steps, backup EVERY backup file I have and then pick and choose which backup to use? How do I keep track of every version of each software app I've bought?

    For years I've been organized with software. Each product has it's own folder and I dump in the latest versions into those folder. Reinstallation is a snap. I can see the version number, install, done. Your convoluted method requires a complete backup of the entire contents of my blackberry. Then I have to hunt and peck to find files and wonder if they are the right version. It's assinine.
    08-29-08 01:06 PM
  19. iPhone0001's Avatar
    I have had some complications with OTA installs, but have managed to get all of them to work. I do agree with bmcclure937 that if you back up your apps, this prevents a lot of headaches down the road if something happens.
    08-29-08 01:22 PM
  20. pltaylor's Avatar
    You're fast...precongrats to the new "master".
    Thank you sir.
    08-29-08 01:54 PM
  21. bmcclure937's Avatar
    Of course I did that. As another posted, it could be a Windows Vista permissions issue because my PIN didn't show up. I followed the instructions to a "T". Fortunately the other poster gave me another way regarding this WORKAROUND. It's not a bona fide regular method or you'd see it in the blackberry manual. This is probably incredibly hard for the average phone owner.

    But you still fail to answer the question - why aren't many Blackberry developers simply giving us the install files to make reinstallation EASY? Why do I have to go through several steps, backup EVERY backup file I have and then pick and choose which backup to use? How do I keep track of every version of each software app I've bought?

    For years I've been organized with software. Each product has it's own folder and I dump in the latest versions into those folder. Reinstallation is a snap. I can see the version number, install, done. Your convoluted method requires a complete backup of the entire contents of my blackberry. Then I have to hunt and peck to find files and wonder if they are the right version. It's assinine.
    I totally agree and I am extremely organized with my software, along with the rest of the files on my computers. I understand where you are coming from, but there really is no solid answer or solid method to do this.

    1) You can make a backup of your applications via the method posted in this thread. This will allow you to have an .alx file along with all of the .cod files to reinstall the apps if needed.

    2) If the application is an OTA install, you can save the .jad file to your PC. This will allow you to install the app if you would ever need to. You would simply need to copy the .jad to the microSD card in your Berry and then open it on your Berry... and the install will occur.

    Those 2 methods are the only workarounds I see. If the developer of the application or software does not provide the .alx and .cod files for the installation... then those 2 alternatives would get the job done! Heck, you can even get the .alx and .cod by doing the "Third Party Applications Backup" method.

    I hope you understand that this has nothing to do with RIM... and when you switch devices or upgrade your OS, all of your third party applications are able to be transferred!! The third party app developers are the ones who decide whether they will offer OTA-only installs for their app, or also provide a .zip file with .alx and .cod files Contact the application developer if you are really concerned.
    08-29-08 02:49 PM
  22. slinky#CB's Avatar
    Thanks for the thoughtful post. While RIM might not be responsible for it, they are going to pay a serious price for the practice. As much as I don't like the iPhone, unfortunately RIM continues to get smoked outside the business environment for having a phone that is just too big of a PITA to learn and use. I'm not going to get into the horrific UI that all of us know still exists in OS 4.5 with the endless scrolling, need to remember assigned key commands and other training that many here forget took time long ago.

    I do appreciate that files can technically be backed up but the labor involved is absurd. I've already contacted the developer about the concern. Right now they don't seem to care. they are the only solution in town and that's the way it will probably stay for a long time. Either pay for "insurance" or don't use the product. We'll see what happens eventually but this problem only exists on the Blackberry platform.
    08-29-08 11:13 PM
  23. Bla1ze's Avatar
    All I can say above what others have mentioned already is..

    Blackberry OTA downloader

    NOT just for themes...I'm sure you know how to copy and paste a link..can't get much easier then that...
    Last edited by Bla1ze; 08-29-08 at 11:20 PM.
    08-29-08 11:16 PM
  24. reeneebob's Avatar
    I have to say that its not that hard, but I hope you never need to ask for help on here again, slinky, because your pisspoor attitude towards the "fanboy users" who responded has shot you in the foot.

    Have a nice day.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by reeneebob; 08-30-08 at 01:45 PM.
    08-30-08 01:42 PM
  25. Ter1990's Avatar
    slinky
    CrackBerry Abuser Join Date: Jun 2007
    Posts: 213
    "As I should have expected, it's too much to expect anything intelligent from a bunch of people who have little to do all day but play around with themselves and their Blackberries to find all sorts of little workarounds - just like you've provided me with, thank you."

    Then why are you here again?

    "Thanks for the thoughtful post. While RIM might not be responsible for it, they are going to pay a serious price for the practice."

    Oh yeah, really looks like it is hurting them... if loosing you is the price they have to pay, then i think they should leave it.

    "the Crackberry zealots have yet to answer the question why Blackberry developers don't provide you with the install files themselves as an option to download to PC and backup just like on other platforms. "

    Why not go ask them instead of coming here to berate/belittle us? If you are so much better, then why are you here?
    08-30-08 02:04 PM
26 12
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD
";