Am I the only one fearing Rim is selling air to stay alive?

Sorry if there's a similar thread somewhere, couldn't see any though ...

Anyways, just as most of you I have been waiting for the BB10 for quite a while now. Probably different than some, I am just an end-user and no programmer, reviewer or what so ever. Now, I was over looking some of the new BB10 features to come and couldn't see any real novelties or even worse, just over excitement on a stupid finger move. Please proof me different or feel free to explain where exactly I am missing the point because the more I read and the longer I wait the more I fear for the last disappointment before making a move to the competition.

The 'hub': Explained as the most wonderful and new feature. But when I press on my general message screen (bold 9700) I get exactly the same. Someone please explain me where they have gone different.

The video dialing: Yeey, nice..... but it only works over wifi ... Don't most people use skype anyway? I mean, what's the use of just another copy intent of skype. People use skype and are not interested in any other options, accept it and do something about it.

Contacts, agenda etc: I haven't found a lot except some one telling us it looks better now. I am very sorry, that won't do. We are about 2 months away for a product only us fools have been waiting so long for and we don't know yet how we will deal with the pc and/or our outlook setup. Because the truth is the truth, at this point it works but not as we want to (unless you use BES). Will we finally be able to implement our business contacts fom bcm and other folders? Will we be able to use an exchange account or yet again use a usb cable or bluetooth? Will there still be desktop manager? If so, could you maybe put an option in case of different data -> whatever changed last...

I am a sales person and I fear what our beloved Rim have been doing all this time is selling us air. The most annoying feature on the L-series BB10 on a personal note is that unblocking screen. Get over it, it looks nice but a simple button would have done the job just as good and even faster!!!

Feel free to explain me where I am missing the point as the more I read the more disappointed I am starting to feel.

You'll know when the phones are revealed if they're right for you. Why worry about it for now?

if you haven't used the contacts app on a playbook... i suggest that's where you take a look at what it already has.

awesome third post OP

The hub is basically a universal inbox with deeper integration to other apps. Pull down to view calendar,etc.

As lazaridis would say SUPER APP

Yes, the Hub is similar. It's supposed to be. But with better integration, easily accessed without having to leave the app you are in (swipe up to see notifications, then slide to the right to see more, let go to go back to your app, or slide all the way to access messages). Right now, the only way to view the unified inbox is to leave the app you are in.

Contacts looks like it includes your communication history (think Xobni built in). You can jump to the communications you had via email, BBM, and so on. Want to look back and see when you talked to someone via phone call? Just bring up their contact information. In BBOS, it's not as easy to look back at communication history.

Video chat on the PlayBook works very well, but only works between PlayBooks. BBM Video just builds on that. It's not meant to replace Skype (Facetime doesn't replace Skype on iPad). It's just another communication tool - one that works very well.

A lot of the features in BB10 build on what RIM had made their reputation on. A lot of things might seem similar, but they are made to interact better, as well as bring more features to the platform.

Originally Posted by bbinexile

awesome third post OP

Awesome first post :D

OP, I share some of your concerns, albeit for a different reason. I don't necessarily think RIM is "selling air", but I do think they are going a bit overboard with playing their cards (too) closely to their vest. It's a double edged sword--revealing too much and not revealing enough--but if I were in RIM's position with a "this is it" mentality that Thor seems to portray, I would let the people in on the product a little more.

But here's where I take issue with your post: the part about Skype. To me, you seem to be saying "if you ain't winning, might as well quit." Granted Skype is the #1 cross-platform video chat solution, but why should RIM not introduce a competitor to it? Who knows, it might actually turn out to be better. Yes, allowing it to work on network data would probably be a big step, but that's not feasible in the global market right now, where a sizeable client base is, at best, on 3G. And he11, why stop at an app? Don't most people use Android and iOS anyway (I mean, that's what the media says, right?) Why bring out a new OS and not just accept people's choice?

It doesn't work that way. The more choices there are, the better it is for the consumer. As a sales person, I hope you realize that.

Unsure about what you mean by "selling Air".... In essence all smartphones do the same thing. You could fill volumes about how they do it however. I believe this is the track RIM is taking. Do it better, more efficiently and with a little pazzaz.... their biggest obstical is to make it different from what is out there but more importantly.... market the heck out of it... otherwise... it does not matter how good or unique it is .... it will die on the vine without great marketing....

Maybe I am/was expecting too much ...

Anyhow, when the Iphone 5 (and I'm not a fan, nor user) got released the main comment was there were no new innovating things on it. I didn't share that feeling, not that I cared either, because innovation has its limits but at the end that's the feeling I am getting with all the fuzz about the BB10. Where is the real innovation? What is all the fuzz just about? I know Rim has to push and warm up the public as hard as possible. And even so there is an all new platform it just looks like an update to me. In short, I have the feeling the actions come short to the shouting. This is just a personal point of view of course where I just wanted to see if there were others who shared my opinion.

On another note though, the playbook as mentioned above, was a total mess for me. Not only did I have severe hardware problems which I am having serious problems getting solved (but that's my problem), the other issue is that I have absolutely not a single business partner over the whole world (LA,NY,Mex, India, China, ...) with a PB. I've had my PB since last year Aug and haven't once been able to use the video chat. Hence my cry for skype. But again, personal problem ...
Oh well, didn't want to start a useless thread either and it does look like as no one seems to share my thoughts.

So lets all await BB10 and hope it can fulfill as many needs possible!

RIM wasn't the one selling air. It is the analysts and reviewers themselves who keep saying that BB10 is really good. Article after article, anyone who has touched it was unanimously positive about it. Even perma-bear analysts changed their tunes.

All RIM did was demonstrate the OS and let them play with it. So play with it first.

OP,

Hub - yes, you are right it is same as unified mailbox that we see on our existing BlackBerry devices. It's just faster, more intuitive. For the folks who haven't used BlackBerry before, this is something new. iPhone, Android, Windows Phone don't have messaging-hub, contacts-hub. With old BlackBerry, RIM never really marketed this "unified mailbox" as a feature. Those who had BlackBerry knew about it and those who didn't have BlackBerry didn't really know about it. This time around, RIM is just giving it a name and marketing it. All other platforms market/highlight their UI features. RIM wasn't doing that earlier but it is doing it now. I feel unified-mailbox is one of the best things about BlackBerry and I am glad they have retained it in new BB 10 in form of 'hub'. They have in fact made it faster, slicker and better. So, in short, once you get used to using a BlackBerry and using your unified-mailbox (hub), you (an existing BlackBerry user) come to think of it as a 'normal' feature. But for those who aren't on BlackBerry, this is new UI/UX paradigm.

I used an iPhone for few months and I found it baffling that iPhone inbox is not a unified-inbox. I have to go into different applications to see notifications etc. So, yeah, you an existing BB user might think of it as air but think about iPhone and Android users who haven't seen the power of having a unified-mailbox. It's a very powerful feature (and for now, unique to BB). You take it for granted when you are a BB user.

Contacts/Agenda - with hub integration, contacts/agenda are just much better than they were before. So, if you were looking for a revolutionary innovation. Then no, it's not there. But it's incremental. Smartphone technology/OS has moved to a point where incremental innovations are what we are going to see. It's unlikely that we'll be seeing a smartphone with something very revolutionary in near future like a smartphone that will brew coffee and toast bread slices. But it's likely that we will see more and more improvements to existing features and better integration/convergence with things around.

Also, another innovation that you've missed is actually under-the-hood. The QNX is a great OS. These under-the-hood innovations don't count as some tangible feature but they speed-up and improve user-accessible features. For eg: if your are running an app that is consuming too much memory or eating too any many resources, your BB10 OS (QNX) won't just hang. Most likely, the offending application will turn gray/be terminated without affecting your overall smartphone experience. QNX also has significant potential in integration with third party devices (like cars etc) so maybe we'll start seeing a lot of integration with third party devices.

By the way, I like my BB Bold 9900 a lot. Because I sometimes missed some apps, I gave iPhone a try and Android a try. They are good devices too but I found myself coming back to BlackBerry because the features I took for granted were lacking in them (eg: hub/universal mailbox, ability to run/switch into multiple apps, the simple LED light, shortcuts, typing auto-text etc). And in the end, those features mattered more to me. Now, if BB 10 can close this app-gap and retain the features that I love in existing BB, then for me, it is best of both worlds! What you call 'air' is actually 'air' only if you are an existing BB user. Outside of BB, the features we take for granted are non-existent.

Originally Posted by chrysaurora

OP,

Hub - yes, you are right it is same as unified mailbox that we see on our existing BlackBerry devices. It's just faster, more intuitive. For the folks who haven't used BlackBerry before, this is something new. iPhone, Android, Windows Phone don't have messaging-hub, contacts-hub. With old BlackBerry, RIM never really marketed this "unified mailbox" as a feature. Those who had BlackBerry knew about it and those who didn't have BlackBerry didn't really know about it. This time around, RIM is just giving it a name and marketing it. All other platforms market/highlight their UI features. RIM wasn't doing that earlier but it is doing it now. I feel unified-mailbox is one of the best things about BlackBerry and I am glad they have retained it in new BB 10 in form of 'hub'. They have in fact made it faster, slicker and better. So, in short, once you get used to using a BlackBerry and using your unified-mailbox (hub), you (an existing BlackBerry user) come to think of it as a 'normal' feature. But for those who aren't on BlackBerry, this is new UI/UX paradigm.

I used an iPhone for few months and I found it baffling that iPhone inbox is not a unified-inbox. I have to go into different applications to see notifications etc. So, yeah, you an existing BB user might think of it as air but think about iPhone and Android users who haven't seen the power of having a unified-mailbox. It's a very powerful feature (and for now, unique to BB). You take it for granted when you are a BB user.

Contacts/Agenda - with hub integration, contacts/agenda are just much better than they were before. So, if you were looking for a revolutionary innovation. Then no, it's not there. But it's incremental. Smartphone technology/OS has moved to a point where incremental innovations are what we are going to see. It's unlikely that we'll be seeing a smartphone with something very revolutionary in near future like a smartphone that will brew coffee and toast bread slices. But it's likely that we will see more and more improvements to existing features and better integration/convergence with things around.

Also, another innovation that you've missed is actually under-the-hood. The QNX is a great OS. These under-the-hood innovations don't count as some tangible feature but they speed-up and improve user-accessible features. For eg: if your are running an app that is consuming too much memory or eating too any many resources, your BB10 OS (QNX) won't just hang. Most likely, the offending application will turn gray/be terminated without affecting your overall smartphone experience. QNX also has significant potential in integration with third party devices (like cars etc) so maybe we'll start seeing a lot of integration with third party devices.

By the way, I like my BB Bold 9900 a lot. Because I sometimes missed some apps, I gave iPhone a try and Android a try. They are good devices too but I found myself coming back to BlackBerry because the features I took for granted were lacking in them (eg: hub/universal mailbox, ability to run/switch into multiple apps, the simple LED light, shortcuts, typing auto-text etc). And in the end, those features mattered more to me. Now, if BB 10 can close this app-gap and retain the features that I love in existing BB, then for me, it is best of both worlds! What you call 'air' is actually 'air' only if you are an existing BB user. Outside of BB, the features we take for granted are non-existent.

Just wanted to add that the iPhone has unified mailbox. Attachment 127216


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by MartyMcfly

Just wanted to add that the iPhone has unified mailbox. Attachment 127216
Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

No, this is not really a unified inbox. I am not sure if you have used BlackBerry. BlackBerry's unified inbox is very different. It collects all kinds of messages/notifications. Your SMS, WhatsApp, Facebook, Twitter, Emails (from any email account) appear right in the inbox. If you clicked on FB message, it'd automatically take you to FB message screen.

It's hard to explain if you haven't used BB before.

Originally Posted by MartyMcfly

Just wanted to add that the iPhone has unified mailbox. Attachment 127216


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

Yeah man... Go check out a video of The 'Hub' on BlackBerry 10. What your iPhone has is nothing like it.

Originally Posted by chrysaurora

best of both worlds!

The more I see of BB10 the more this statement keeps coming to mind.
I think they should use this in advertising.

Yep, The Hub is totally different from IPhone's universal inbox.

Let me attach few photos from Google Image search to kind of explain it. But you really have to use a BlackBerry to truly understand how powerful of a feature this is. Use a BB for few days and see for yourself. Yes, the current gen of BBs are not going to be as slick as an iPhone. But the features that are unique to BB are just amazing. So, try it and see how you like those features (eg: unified inbox of a BlackBerry).

Attachment 127217
Attachment 127218
Attachment 127219
Attachment 127220

With BB 10, hopefully, we will get best of both worlds. iPhone like slick-ness (cool icons, speedy performance) clubbed with productivity of a BlackBerry.

I've got to agree with you over the Skype issue - and you might as well add Netflix to that make it or break it list as well.....
...No Netflix for the BB10 equates to no Neflix for the Playbook = good as DOA.

Now, as for the other things I've talked to people within Sprint who have witnessed the device 1st hand....
...These were some of the most negative people toward RIM that anyone could find.
...THEY were highly impressed with what they witnessed, said it looked like RIM finally got it, etc.

The Device is real and what it already is being hyped as being able to do is awesome - I believe it does those things advertised....
...The question is IF RIM can deliver those MISSING popular Apps that aided it in their prolonged blood bath.
...The masses could care less about 'peek & flow' if it doesn't peek and flow from Skype and Netflix.
...This is just the reality of the situation.

Originally Posted by chrysaurora

No, this is not really a unified inbox. I am not sure if you have used BlackBerry. BlackBerry's unified inbox is very different. It collects all kinds of messages/notifications. Your SMS, WhatsApp, Facebook, Twitter, Emails (from any email account) appear right in the inbox. If you clicked on FB message, it'd automatically take you to FB message screen.

It's hard to explain if you haven't used BB before.

Your original post does say "unified mailbox" on multiple occasions along with "unified inbox" so you really can't fault Marty's response.

While the bb inbox is well implemented its not a necessity for everyone. I myself never used it as I would always use the notifications bar or found that the icon with the notification attached to it was just as efficient. I would be surprised to find that I'm the only one here sharing this sentiment.

Regardless, it certainly wouldn't imply that I have never used a bb or understand what the "unified inbox" is capable of. Seems an unfair statement!

Conceptual features are always the tougher to explain/demo.
Let's observe the "flow" notion within this (funny-like) video. You'll see there what you call "unified mailbox" (hub) and "one thumb operation".
A video worth 1000 words. Once you've seen it, try to perform the same with your current phone (whatever it is), count the minutes, the number of actions (in/out apps), etc.
Then you'll probably understand that what you believe "air" features are a sum of "little rivers" that ends in "large flow".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ccjx...4B65996FF5016F

The Iphone's 'so called' unified inbox, doesnot integrate SMS, Twitter, FB, imessages, etc etc into it. So much for calling it ' unified' in the first place.:devil:

Originally Posted by ritesh

The Iphone's 'so called' unified inbox, doesnot integrate SMS, Twitter, FB, imessages, etc etc into it. So much for calling it ' unified' in the first place.:devil:

This is true. Except it was MAILBOX that was quoted. Not INBOX. iPhone does have a unified mailbox as the screenshot showed but, does not have a native unified inbox.

Originally Posted by pythons

I've got to agree with you over the Skype issue - and you might as well add Netflix to that make it or break it list as well.....
...No Netflix for the BB10 equates to no Neflix for the Playbook = good as DOA.

Now, as for the other things I've talked to people within Sprint who have witnessed the device 1st hand....
...These were some of the most negative people toward RIM that anyone could find.
...THEY were highly impressed with what they witnessed, said it looked like RIM finally got it, etc.

The Device is real and what it already is being hyped as being able to do is awesome - I believe it does those things advertised....
...The question is IF RIM can deliver those MISSING popular Apps that aided it in their prolonged blood bath.
...The masses could care less about 'peek & flow' if it doesn't peek and flow from Skype and Netflix.
...This is just the reality of the situation.

Do you want a phone that makes you highly efficient with the hub, peak and flow or do you want a phone for the masses?

RIM has made it clear they're targeting the "BlackBerry People" not the masses that need that Home Button.

It's the reason a lot of us still use a BlackBerry and BB10 is taking efficency to a whole new level.

Originally Posted by Bondte

Maybe I am/was expecting too much ...

Anyhow, when the Iphone 5 (and I'm not a fan, nor user) got released the main comment was there were no new innovating things on it. I didn't share that feeling, not that I cared either, because innovation has its limits but see if there were others who shared my opinion

Are you saying you think the iPhone 5 has new and innovating things on it, or did you misworded that sentence? Because please tell me; what new innovating things are there on an iPhone 5?

Edit: typo

Originally Posted by Bondte

Maybe I am/was expecting too much ...

Anyhow, when the Iphone 5 (and I'm not a fan, nor user) got released the main comment was there were no new innovating things on it. I didn't share that feeling, not that I cared either, because innovation has its limits but at the end that's the feeling I am getting with all the fuzz about the BB10. Where is the real innovation? What is all the fuzz just about? I know Rim has to push and warm up the public as hard as possible. And even so there is an all new platform it just looks like an update to me. In short, I have the feeling the actions come short to the shouting. This is just a personal point of view of course where I just wanted to see if there were others who shared my opinion.

The single biggest innovation in BB10 over its predecessors is the no more battery pulls. That's a big deal actually. It's what lead to our company switching from Blackberry to iPhone.