[anon(3066922)]

I'm not sure how PlayBook users were left out in the cold. My PlayBook are still working just fine.

They were supposed to get upgrade to BB10 when the OS was ready. Turns out they didn't put enough RAM in the Playbook's to make it work properly. (Rumor has it). Also sales weren't great so stopping pouring resources into it. (Rumor has it).

Posted via CB10

[idssteve]

Maybe its just me but I do not understand why the non removable battery is such a deal breaker. I'm not a business man or owner, just a plain math teacher in graduate school. No more battery pulls in the old os7 with bb10 and the batteries that are non-removable are more than 2-3 times bigger that the 9900 battery. Could someone please explain to me why this is so important? When I had my z30 earlier this year, I rarely ever needed to charge it through the day and I use my phone more than my laptop when working and schooling.

It all depends on your mission for your device. From how you describe your use, Z30's fixed batt sounds a good fit. For you. Some of us use our devices for mission critical efforts where charging might not be practical. As a 24/7 professional, i might get called 5 minutes after climbing in bed. And then spend the rest of the night troubleshooting while trying to get power into the device. BTDT too many times. After a hard day's use, there's no quicker way to restore the device to 100% charge than a batt swap. Until someone invents five minute to 100% charging, that single feature can't be matched any other way i'm aware of. ??

Just a couple weeks ago i endured a 38 hr troubleshooting marathon with a colleague at a plant on the other side of the globe. His Z30 held up admirably well for about 12, or so, hrs. After that, getting it charged well enough to last another hour at a time turned into a real headache. He was contorting inside a control cabinet tracing live circuits with DMM, etc. Tethering his device to a cord was NOT an option. He eventually resorted to using the plant's cordless land line phone for voice, relegating his 30 to text, photo and wire diagram service. Worked ok overall but things went MUCH smoother with his Q during a similar marathon a few months ago. Downtime for this plant amounted to about $2-3K per hr. Price of our devices was irrelevant.

I could go on and no doubt someone will chime in with the typical "usb pack" suggestion, etc. I've been all over this in other posts so the best i can say is that swappable battery is essential for some of us and we really shouldn't have to explain that. If BBRY want's my company's money, they'll make a device my company wants to buy. As it is, fixed battery is a deal breaker for my company. If the Q20 comes with fixed battery, our IT is pushing for an awful Casio with swappable battery. Yuck.

[anon(3066922)]

I am moving the posting from the Classic Forum to this as I got out of hand on the subject matter.

If ML/RIM would have just up dated the 9900 with new hardware, camera(s), speakers and maybe a HDMI port instead of coming out with a Q10 without a tool belt and wrote BB10 for gesture phones only where would today's BlackBerry/RIM be today?

BB10 was written for both gesture phones and the Qwerty phones. If they would have left the Qwerty phones alone and improved the specs we would now have the 3 and 4 generation of the 9900 by now. Instead BlackBerry has to go back 3 years and make a phone that should have come out 3 years ago.

The new Q20 (Classic) is only a Q10 with a tool belt. Nothing more nothing less. It does not have all the features Bold 9900 user love in a working man's phone. No charging contacts, no removable battery, no convenience button and most important the ergonomic keyboard.

Contrary to what BB10 users say the BB10 is not as good as OS6/7 and will never be. To many things lost in the update. Mostly in the BBM BB10 no RSS feeds no multiple sharing. In OS7 why do we need gesturing in a working phone with a small screen? I know I never use gesturing. All it did was use more RAM when there isn't any in the 9900 to begin with.

The 9900 is a working man's phone and users that don't play Candy Crush.

Think about how much money ML/RIM flush down the drain. Now John Chen and his group has to fix the enormous BB10 that has so much money invested in it they can't scrap it.

BLACKBERRY: All we want is a 9900 that should have come out 3 years ago with a better motor, stereo and back up mirrors. We want a "retro" Bold 9900.

By the way. How much money did they waste? I think they did a good job at trimming the fat during the restructure all while building an OS. Also, it's not like building brink wall where 100 guys doing the same thing just gets it done faster. It's a 100 guys doing code that at the end needs to all mesh.

They bought QNX in 2010 and released OS in 2013 (end of 2012). Can you imagine they did this futuristic OS change before the acquired QNX. Now that would be a lot of money wasted

Posted via CB10

[Mr4aces]

I'm not sure how PlayBook users were left out in the cold. My PlayBooks are still working just fine.

OS7 is still working also but no more updates

[mkelley65]

They were supposed to get upgrade to BB10 when the OS was ready. Turns out they didn't put enough RAM in the Playbook's to make it work properly. (Rumor has it). Also sales weren't great so stopping pouring resources into it. (Rumor has it).

Posted via CB10

I don't expect tech to be upgraded unless I'm paying a maintenance agreement. I bought the PlayBook for what it could do at the moment. To expect otherwise is foolish.

[anon(3066922)]

Good article - http://n4bb.com/consumers-backseat-blackberry/ with a little relevance to this topic of discussion

Posted via CB10

[mkelley65]

OS7 is still working also but no more updates

Perhaps it has all the tweaks and updates it needs. Also it's EOL.

[dredewten85]

It all depends on your mission for your device. From how you describe your use, Z30's fixed batt sounds a good fit. For you. Some of us use our devices for mission critical efforts where charging might not be practical. As a 24/7 professional, i might get called 5 minutes after climbing in bed. And then spend the rest of the night troubleshooting while trying to get power into the device. BTDT too many times. After a hard day's use, there's no quicker way to restore the device to 100% charge than a batt swap. Until someone invents five minute to 100% charging, that single feature can't be matched any other way i'm aware of. ??

Just a couple weeks ago i endured a 38 hr troubleshooting marathon with a colleague at a plant on the other side of the globe. His Z30 held up admirably well for about 12, or so, hrs. After that, getting it charged well enough to last another hour at a time turned into a real headache. He was contorting inside a control cabinet tracing live circuits with DMM, etc. Tethering his device to a cord was NOT an option. He eventually resorted to using the plant's cordless land line phone for voice, relegating his 30 to text, photo and wire diagram service. Worked ok overall but things went MUCH smoother with his Q during a similar marathon a few months ago. Downtime for this plant amounted to about $2-3K per hr. Price of our devices was irrelevant.

I could go on and no doubt someone will chime in with the typical "usb pack" suggestion, etc. I've been all over this in other posts so the best i can say is that swappable battery is essential for some of us and we really shouldn't have to explain that. If BBRY want's my company's money, they'll make a device my company wants to buy. As it is, fixed battery is a deal breaker for my company. If the Q20 comes with fixed battery, our IT is pushing for an awful Casio with swappable battery. Yuck.

I appreciate you taking your time and explaining why a non removable battery will not help your case. I can understand why you would need a removable battery. Rumor is that it will come with a non removable battery but hopefully the larger capacity battery will help cause I think it will be bigger than the z30. Hopefully the classic will be a good enough upgrade so you and your company can test it out and you can use the usb on the go chargers or charging cases, however I would not blame you if you stuck with your 9900 because of the battery. It sounds like a pain always being on call but you sound like you like what you do so more power to you.

[idssteve]

I appreciate you taking your time and explaining why a non removable battery will not help your case. I can understand why you would need a removable battery. Rumor is that it will come with a non removable battery but hopefully the larger capacity battery will help cause I think it will be bigger than the z30. Hopefully the classic will be a good enough upgrade so you and your company can test it out and you can use the usb on the go chargers or charging cases, however I would not blame you if you stuck with your 9900 because of the battery. It sounds like a pain always being on call but you sound like you like what you do so more power to you.

Yeah, everyone in my office will nurse our 9900s a LONG time before letting IT shove those awful Casios on us. Never worked a job i didn't love. Daily challenge, ya kno.

[Mr4aces]

By the way. How much money did they waste? I think they did a good job at trimming the fat during the restructure all while building an OS. Also, it's not like building brink wall where 100 guys doing the same thing just gets it done faster. It's a 100 guys doing code that at the end needs to all mesh.

They bought QNX in 2010 and released OS in 2013 (end of 2012). Can you imagine they did this futuristic OS change before the acquired QNX. Now that would be a lot of money wasted

Posted via CB10

I was self employed since 1975 and have owned my share of companies. That being said, "can't" is not in my dictionary. I know how I would approach a dead line. I would have as many programers that was needed to met the time table.

If you have a master plan it is basic management. It would take 1 to 2 months with 12 people designing the master plan.
1-VP of Programing
1-Master Programer (min 12-15 years)
2-Floaters (min 8-10 years)
4-Division Leaders (min 6-7 years)
2- People from the R and D
2 people from other related operations

These 12 people design outline and plan work schedule and time tables before starting.

For every 5-6 programers have one group leader @100 people there would be 20 group leaders;
For every 5 group leaders have 1 division leader; or 4 division leaders;
For every 2 division leaders there would be 2 floaters that would answer problems that can not be handled at the division level and would supervise 5 testers that would test the coding already done.
The 4 division leaders and 2 floaters would met twice a day to discuss problems and progress;
The 2 floater would met with the master programmer every morning;
The master programer would answer to the VP of Programing once maybe twice a week.

Give bonus for early completion.

When you have an unlimited budget this can happen with the proper planning. What would this cost? $5.2-6.0 million but it would be done in less than 21 days.

Allow another 15-30 days of additional testing and would not include testing of the device(s) itself.

Overall time table from start to finish 5 to 6 months.

[Mr4aces]

Good article - Why Consumers Are In The Backseat With BlackBerry | N4BB with a little relevance to this topic of discussion

Posted via CB10

Thanks for the link I will bookmark it. This has happen since 11/2013, under JC's leadership.

[Bbnivende]

Good article - http://n4bb.com/consumers-backseat-blackberry/ with a little relevance to this topic of discussion

Posted via CB10

Thanks .. It is interesting. I think it is too late and BlackBerry is too small. As soon as it looks like they might be headed in the right direction they will be bought by a larger player.

[Carrtman]

Maybe its just me but I do not understand why the non removable battery is such a deal breaker. I'm not a business man or owner, just a plain math teacher in graduate school. No more battery pulls in the old os7 with bb10 and the batteries that are non-removable are more than 2-3 times bigger that the 9900 battery. Could someone please explain to me why this is so important? When I had my z30 earlier this year, I rarely ever needed to charge it through the day and I use my phone more than my laptop when working and schooling.

I can tell you why it is for me. In Austria the next Blackberry service shop is well...nowhere near 600 km! Usually if something is wrong with my phone the first thing I do is going to check the battery and if that's the problem I travel to the next shop, buy a new one and replace it. At worst this is costing me a bit of fuel and if the traffic is bad like really bad 3 hours. Add to that that I'm someone who is keeping his phones for a longer team (so no 2 year upgrade circle), I'm not interested in paying 100 $ + for getting my battery replaced when I can do the same thing by myself for a lot less.

Despite I'm also not willing to wait over a week, give access to my data and pay a fee for doing something evereyone could do by themselves. I also happen to like phones with more weight (the Curve is way too small and light for me), so yeah a non removable battery is a deal breaker for me and will always be one.

Basically the same thing can be said about the need for a microsod slot I don't trust companies and their "cloud" which is just a buzzword for send your local stuff to the internet ...

[RubberChicken76]

Contrary to what BB10 users say the BB10 is not as good as OS6/7 and will never be.

Look at you, acting as though your personal opinions are facts! Sure there absolutely are some people who prefer features of BlackBerry OS. But are you telling the BlackBerry 10 users who happily moved on from BlackBerry OS and don't miss it in the slightest that we're full of crap?

[Mr4aces]

Look at you, acting as though your personal opinions are facts! Sure there absolutely are some people who prefer features of BlackBerry OS. But are you telling the BlackBerry 10 users who happily moved on from BlackBerry OS and don't miss it in the slightest that we're full of crap?

"Never" is an overstatement but you have to admit BB10 did not bring along all the features of OS. Don't see BB updating these features in the near future.

Never said you are full of crap. OP don't use "things" to the max, I most likely is in a 2-5% group. Just like you are in that small group of the consumers that stuck out all the flaws of the Z10.

Pick up a 9900 and try to share your social media, it gives you multiple sharing. Can BB10 BBM do that? No. If you have a program with features that users have been using, why would you go backwards? Because you're under the gun and have to cut out things to shorten the delivery

This thread is about the administration before 11/2013, and my point of view on how much wasted money and bad management that brought RIM down to less than 1% of the mobile market share. Not about what JC and his hand picked staff has done. Look what RIM could have been.

[conite]

You keep harping on the social media thing.

Just as there was an app in bbos that let you post to multiple accounts, there are apps for bb10 as well. Look at PolarBear.

Z30STA100-5/10.3.0.1xxx

[thurask]

You keep harping on the social media thing.

Just as there was an app in bbos that let you post to multiple accounts, there are apps for bb10 as well. Look at PolarBear.

Z30STA100-5/10.3.0.1xxx

Or QuickPost.

Posted via CB10

[aha]

Their fault was not in developing a new OS based on QNX (that was a great idea) but in choosing not to include in the new OS team any of the old BBOS developers. In doing so they lost a lot of knowledge about the functional (not technological) features that made the old BBOS a highly productive environment.

There are both up and down sides of including BBOS developers in BB10 development... the main down side is, the BB10 development will be limited by the BBOS way of thinking and it may not flow as well as it does now.

When it comes to development, there is no perfect way of doing things when time and resource are limited. You always have to make judgment calls along the way and those decisions influence each other instead of staying independent. In the end, you may find a decision is bad but simply reversing it may not get optimal result neither because so many other decisions works better based on the original decision and would suck if that decision got changed.


Posted via CB10 with Z30STA100-5/10.3.0.1130

[rthonpm]

Find a third party app OP. This thread has grown and grown and yet your complaint is still that you're missing sharing to all 750,000 social accounts you have through one UI. That's a feature and number of accounts that very few people would ever really have, especially on the same social platform.

What wounded BlackBerry so much wasn't the change to BB10, but the arrogance and out of touch leadership of Mike and Jim. If Mike had his way, we'd still be using monochrome screens, would have no media player, and no internet browsers on our handheld. In other words, BlackBerry would already be dead. In some respects, both of them had to be kicked into the modern era of mobile. I'd suggest reading the full Globe and Mail article that shows the overall dysfunction within BlackBerry at the time: http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-...service=mobile


We can all argue how well the transition to BB10 went, but that gets us nowhere. We're already three CEO's away (Mike and Jim, Thor) from BBOS as the main driver for BlackBerry. The change is made and BB10 is the way forward. Either use the 'I can make it better site' to suggest the features you want in BB10 or find a third party application that will give you the option to do it. The whole idea of a phone application is to extend the functionality of the device.


Posted via CB10

[aha]

In a perfect world, merging two teams' knowledge together would yield the best results.

In reality, it's not only knowledge they need to merge together, but also philosophy, belief, methodology, ambition, etc. Etc...

It may end up taking more time to came up with something half finished.

Posted via CB10 with Z30STA100-5/10.3.0.1130

[MmmHmm]

I don't expect tech to be upgraded unless I'm paying a maintenance agreement. I bought the PlayBook for what it could do at the moment. To expect otherwise is foolish.

Nearly all modern smartphones and tablets are upgraded for free for a period of time after the initial sale, often years. I don't think the maintenance agreement business model even exists in this context. Which companies are charging for this? To expect the basic services that are commonplace in today's competitive market is foolish? I don't get it.

[Mr4aces]

You keep harping on the social media thing.

Just as there was an app in bbos that let you post to multiple accounts, there are apps for bb10 as well. Look at PolarBear.

Z30STA100-5/10.3.0.1xxx

Or QuickPost.

Posted via CB10

Thank you. Just looked at Polar Bear and QuickPost looks like it will do the some of things OS7 does. But you can only share to one Face Book and one Twitter account. No picture attachment can be shared when posting a message. Under OS7 when you bring up the "Share" menu you have the following options:

Share by Email
Share by Text message
Share by BBM Chat
Share by BBM Channel also lets you select the channel you want to share.
Share by BBM Group
Share by Social Feeds: which allows you to share to BBM, 5 Twitter accounts and Face Book
Share by Face Book
Share by Twitter

These apps don't come close to OS7. Borrow a 9900 and check it out.

[kbz1960]

Last i heard, BBOS hasn't been scrapped. It's development was mostly abandoned in favor of BB10. Why did they have to abandon it just to develop BB10? Developing a new OS from scratch is an aggressive pursuit for software capable giants like Apple. BBRY was destined to require several years to get BB10 into useful maturity. What did they think would happen during that period??

Had they pursued parallel development strategy for a few years, it's arguable that keeping qwerty users satiated with incrementally updated Bolds might have permitted QNX to better focus on gesture. Each incremental Bold upgrade should have provided some additional revenue, also. By this time, they might have been better positioned to devote attention toward developing TRUE BB10 legacy replacements. All conjecture, at this point.

Instead, the approach they took could be viewed as analogous to IF MS had abandoned fat OS's two years before introducing NT back in '93. NT took 8 yrs to evolve into XP... 95, 98 and ME kept MS profitable while NT matured. I'm no particular fan of MS but they know how to make $$.

They couldn't afford to do both. BBOS lost sales already had them thinking sell or bankrupt.

[Mr4aces]

There are both up and down sides of including BBOS developers in BB10 development... the main down side is, the BB10 development will be limited by the BBOS way of thinking and it may not flow as well as it does now.

When it comes to development, there is no perfect way of doing things when time and resource are limited. You always have to make judgment calls along the way and those decisions influence each other instead of staying independent. In the end, you may find a decision is bad but simply reversing it may not get optimal result neither because so many other decisions works better based on the original decision and would suck if that decision got changed.


Posted via CB10 with Z30STA100-5/10.3.0.1130

I agree with you. If the foundation is not built correctly the rest of the house is crooked.

[Mr4aces]

Find a third party app OP. This thread has grown and grown and yet your complaint is still that you're missing sharing to all 750,000 social accounts you have through one UI. That's a feature and number of accounts that very few people would ever really have, especially on the same social platform.

What wounded BlackBerry so much wasn't the change to BB10, but the arrogance and out of touch leadership of Mike and Jim. If Mike had his way, we'd still be using monochrome screens, would have no media player, and no internet browsers on our handheld. In other words, BlackBerry would already be dead. In some respects, both of them had to be kicked into the modern era of mobile. I'd suggest reading the full Globe and Mail article that shows the overall dysfunction within BlackBerry at the time: How BlackBerry blew it: The inside story - The Globe and Mail


We can all argue how well the transition to BB10 went, but that gets us nowhere. We're already three CEO's away (Mike and Jim, Thor) from BBOS as the main driver for BlackBerry. The change is made and BB10 is the way forward. Either use the 'I can make it better site' to suggest the features you want in BB10 or find a third party application that will give you the option to do it. The whole idea of a phone application is to extend the functionality of the device.


Posted via CB10

exactly