[Harborcoat]

It amazes me that this thread has gone on so long. OS7 was done. It's a clunky old JAVA based nightmare. QNX is the future of mobile computing with its amazing reliability. I have had no need for a removable battery on my Z30, because BB10 DOESN'T REQUIRE BATTERY PULLS. I am definitely a power user and I have rarely gotten into bed with a battery life of >20%. Built in batteries make the device slimmer and can therefore give you a bigger battery than removable would have been. OS7 took years to be as featureful as it was. BB10 is only 20 months old.

[Mr4aces]

Question: What is "ML/RIM"? I know RIM is BlackBerry's old name, but what is ML?

Posted via CB10

Milke Lazaridis the master mind behind RIM

I'm on a mobil so this link might not show up correctly:

Research, no motion: How the BlackBerry CEOs lost an empire | The Verge

[Mirk]

Yeah, it pretty much amazes me this is still being discussed. The issue with BBOS was that it had rampant memory leaks that required constant battery pulls. This is why it wasn't going anywhere and why it was an outdated mess. It's like taking an old car that is filled with rust holes and has major structural problems and insisting a few little patches here and there will make it a good safe daily driver. Continuing to work on it was not making it better, it was making a bigger mess.

The issue is not that BBOS should still be worked on to this day, the issue is that they should have started BB10 sooner. Then they would have been ahead of the game, not behind as they currently are. Thus, BBOS should have been scrapped even sooner.

[Mr4aces]

So here is the issue.

In order to really reinvent Blackberry's self there had to be something done to completely start from the ground up. Blackberry now has the highest reliability core of any OS on the market. In order to do this they needed to strip it down to the basics, QNX microkernel. As you can see they have been slowly adding features back to the phone and soon they will please everyone giving everyone what they had on the old 9900. I did like the old 9900 but imho I can't even compare the 2 OS's because they are so drastically different. BB10 is built for the next 10 years. You couldn't have done that with the old 9900 and the java based OS. Everyone knows the pain and suffering that came along with being a blackberry user. It was a bitter sweet relationship. When things worked it was really good. When it didn't and you had to do the old battery pull it hurt.

Ask yourself do you blame Blackberry for trying to appeal to the 6.92 billion people who didn't use the old 9900's or OS6 / OS7 devices? They did what they know best which was to build a productivity work horse of an OS that does what they are known for... getting things done.

I agree with most of this, but I just feel BB10 isn't what it should be. With all the resources ML/RIM had if they had xx programmers on it wouldn't you have doubled or triple the staff to get the work done? Usually when you build something you have a plan before you start. There is no reason why 100 programmers couldn't be working on this project if there was a plan. Or did they shoot from the hip?

Blackberry isn't going to everything to everyone. Like Apple, Blackberry has a loyal fan base who as you know based on this forum love their blackberry phones. The other ones are the business users who need their phones for security.

Just another thing to add. Trust me when I say that a day doesn't go by when I hear a businessman with an iphone say that it wasn't his decision to switch to an iphone. If it were his way it would be a blackberry. These are companies that are 30 - 1000's of users converting. This is a different issue of time to market. We can all say that the BB10 phone should have been released 2 years earlier than it was. Rome wasn't built overnight and nor will the blackberry user base return to where is was at the end of the last decade in the next couple of years.

Blackberry has stuck to their roots. I don't think that they are losing users because they didn't build a phone with a belt or because they are missing a feature that they love on their old 9900. It's because they really didn't have a preference in OS (not a loyal user), were pushed out by a corporate change, they don't see the phones in stores or clerks are not pushing sales on blackberry.

They only have 1% of the mobile market. Some of this is attribute to the bad taste ML/RIM left with vendors and repeat customers when BB10 was launched.

I guarantee you that the classic is not going to bring back blackberry. Sorry. It's going to happen when people are sick of option 1 and 2 and want something to change to. If blackberry adds as much over the next 2 years as they did over the first 2 years you can bet that blackberry will be on the rise. Keep in mind that Blackberry's business model isn't to sell 100 million phones a year (although that would be great), it's about software margin, hardware margin (10 million phones minimum) and licensing.

No the "Classic" won't bring BlackBerry back it might be a flop. That will depend on what comes out. Just like when the Q10, Z10 and PlayBook came out.

What will bring BlackBerry back is JC's leadership.

[Mr4aces]

Yeah, it pretty much amazes me this is still being discussed. The issue with BBOS was that it had rampant memory leaks that required constant battery pulls. This is why it wasn't going anywhere and why it was an outdated mess. It's like taking an old car that is filled with rust holes and has major structural problems and insisting a few little patches here and there will make it a good safe daily driver. Continuing to work on it was not making it better, it was making a bigger mess.

The issue is not that BBOS should still be worked on to this day, the issue is that they should have started BB10 sooner. Then they would have been ahead of the game, not behind as they currently are. Thus, BBOS should have been scrapped even sooner.

They did scrap it shortly after BB10 came out. Just ask the PlayBook users.

[anon(3066922)]

They did scrap it shirtly after BB10 came out. Just ask the PlayBook users.

Oh don't stir that pot :S

Posted via CB10

[Mr4aces]

It amazes me that this thread has gone on so long. OS7 was done. It's a clunky old JAVA based nightmare. QNX is the future of mobile computing with its amazing reliability. I have had no need for a removable battery on my Z30, because BB10 DOESN'T REQUIRE BATTERY PULLS. I am definitely a power user and I have rarely gotten into bed with a battery life of >20%. Built in batteries make the device slimmer and can therefore give you a bigger battery than removable would have been. OS7 took years to be as featureful as it was. BB10 is only 20 months old.

3 years? 2 years? 1 year? 6 months? It was not complete when it came out and not "finish" now. You mean to tell me if you had billions you wouldn't have hired enough personnel to get the job done? They could not do this because they were shooting from the hip with no "plan".

The first thing you do when you build is draw up a plan, do an estimate of material/labor cost, lay out a time table and hire the people you need to do the job in the time frame you laid out. If you don't have any idea of the what and how you will always be late for delivery, because you have to build one brick at a time. I'm sure whoever was in charge of this project is long gone.

I just expected more for the billions that was spent prior to 11/2013.

Yeah, it can and will be fixed by the current administration, but if the PassPort or Classic fails BlackBerry will be out of the mobile device business with the exception of having other companies build them.

[idssteve]

Yeah, it pretty much amazes me this is still being discussed.

The issue is not that BBOS should still be worked on to this day, the issue is that they should have started BB10 sooner. Then they would have been ahead of the game, not behind as they currently are. Thus, BBOS should have been scrapped even sooner.

Exactly. BB10 needed to start sooner so that BBOS COULD be "scrapped" even sooner. Problem is, it wasn't. BBOS and 9900 bought time for BB so that BB10 could be developed after it's late start.

The newly manufactured 2014 9900's assure that BBOS will likely NOT be left in the past any time soon. Maybe 2+ years. ?? Meantime, users of these new 9900s will have justified interest in attempting to understand the past to afford a better vision of that device's future. That's a part of why this thread is still alive, imo.

[Bbnivende]

They did scrap it shirtly after BB10 came out. Just ask the PlayBook users.

The Playbook is not BBOS it is really an early beta version of BB10 (QNX).

Yes, BBOS power users were shortchanged by BB10 BUT the reality is that there really are not that many BBOS power users. Most BBOS users are employees of big corporations, third world users or your aging aunt in Redding. If they came out with a Q10 with a 3.5 inch screen and no double type issue and priced it for $100 lower than the Classic there would be few if any Classic sales.

[Mr4aces]

Oh don't stir that pot :S

Posted via CB10

LOL
I know lots of mad users that abandon BB.
Some of the people in here are not looking at the whole picture nor do they understand the history of ML/RIM. I have spent hundreds of hours on CrackBerry since April to learn. Unless op have been here more than 2-3 years or spent a lot of time on CB they don't have a clue what went on.

Hey I'm not the one saying ML/RIM should have abandon BBOS sooner

[Mr4aces]

The Playbook is not BBOS it is really an early beta version of BB10 (QNX).

Yes, BBOS power users were shortchanged by BB10 BUT the reality is that there really are not that many BBOS power users. Most BBOS users are employees of big corporations, third world users or your aging aunt in Redding. If they came out with a Q10 with a 3.5 inch screen and no double type issue and priced it for $100 lower than the Classic there would be few if any Classic sales.

ML/RIM still left PlayBook users out in the cold after paying top dollar. Another reason why vendors and consumers don't like/trust RIM/BB.

And a tool belt. I don't think I'm the only one that didn't switch to the Q10 bc no tool belt.

So another example of bad management by putting a product on the market without testing it or using cheap parts. And another reason why BB has 1% of mobile sales.

It all adds up and boils down to bad decisions and poor management.

So now you can see why my thread was started about how much $$ was wasted due to poor management.

[Mr4aces]

Exactly. BB10 needed to start sooner so that BBOS COULD be "scrapped" even sooner. Problem is, it wasn't. BBOS and 9900 bought time for BB so that BB10 could be developed after it's late start.

The newly manufactured 2014 9900's assure that BBOS will likely NOT be left in the past any time soon. Maybe 2+ years. ?? Meantime, users of these new 9900s will have justified interest in attempting to understand the past to afford a better vision of that device's future. That's a part of why this thread is still alive, imo.

"They still just don't get it."
It's tough for me to read comments from op that don't know the history of ML/RIM or even owned a Bold.

I think there is no way John Chen will not support the 9900 in one way or another. He seems to be honorable.

[Bbnivende]

I have no problem with the toolbelt but I doubt that the needed sales will materialise. The BB OS owners I know have no interest in smartphones and will use their aging devices until they break. It is a myth that there is a pent up demand for the Classic.

[anon(153966)]

I wonder if iOS users have these sort of conversations. As we all know, they have been using the same OS, for AGES! Yes, some slight changes here, and there, but nothing like an overhaul like BB10...

[Mr4aces]

I have no problem with the toolbelt but I doubt that the needed sales will materialise. The BB OS owners I know have no interest in smartphones and will use their aging devices until they break. It is a myth that there is a pent up demand for the Classic.

Exaxctly. Because the predicted Q20 (Classic) is only a Q10 with a tool belt with 1-3 year old specs. It is not a Classic as the current 9900 know.

[Mr4aces]

I wonder if iOS users have these sort of conversations. As we all know, they have been using the same OS, for AGES! Yes, some slight changes here, and there, but nothing like an overhaul like BB10...

I thought BlackBerry users were the top of the food chain?

We belong to the 1% Club.

[Bbnivende]

Yes.. the new Classic is like the new mini and the 9900 is like the older original British version.

[Mr4aces]

Yes.. the new Classic is like the new mini and the 9900 is like the older original British version.

ROFL or the 9900 is like a Cooper S w/1275?

[Bbnivende]

British racing green with a black roof?

[HabsFan9860]

ML/RIM still left PlayBook users out in the cold after paying top dollar. Another reason why vendors and consumers don't like/trust RIM/BB.

And a tool belt. I don't think I'm the only one that didn't switch to the Q10 bc no tool belt.

So another example of bad management by putting a product on the market without testing it or using cheap parts. And another reason why BB has 1% of mobile sales.

It all adds up and boils down to bad decisions and poor management.

So now you can see why my thread was started about how much $$ was wasted due to poor management.

...it's easy to tout 'bad management, and wasted $$' (if I completely agree with you on that is a different matter) with hindsight...and this is the problem that I have with about all your posts...as far as the PlayBook and the tool belt are concerned, I am glad that they tried to go after more market share...that takes a lot...and I bought two PlayBook's at top dollar...a Wi-Fi 32GB and an LTE 32GB at both respective launches...do I regret it?...not at all...I own two tablets that are STILL very capable in a world where such a device would have been replaced in a year *cough Apple*...some whine about the whole BlackBerry 10 not being delivered after it was loosely promised...before finding out that it wouldn't work as nicely as they would want it to...I would rather have the OS that I have now, rather than a botched and hacked BlackBerry 10...anyway, a lot of the slick features of BlackBerry 10 are actually on PlayBook OS...just under a different name...like 'Peek and Flow'...or Hub..etc...

You have to remember, this (BlackBerry) company had to make a big decision when they did...stay and try and improve a dead decade old horse?...or re-write their entire landscape...OS and hardware...basically become a whole new company...and at the same time still have to maintain the old one lone enough to enable the transition...and they don't have the bankroll of say Apple or MS to do it with...I for one think that they did a hell of a job all things considered...and what we have is arguably THE BEST OS to date, and they still aren't done...hardware that is better than most...sure we don't yet have the bleeding edge specs...but those done matter anymore when the software is done right...and that's what we have in BlackBerry 10...you can pine about the 'old days' and what not...but BlackBerry was skillful in getting what they got out of BlackBerry OS...if they can get the same from the current framework I think that we will be in for a treat...

Posted via CB10

[HabsFan9860]

British racing green with a black roof?

I actually have a 1961 British Racing Green MG Midget with a 1275 (the original 948 was fun, but the 1275 that I built up is more fun) about eight feet away from where I am typing this in my garage...due for a good re-do this winter...I have an old British Leyland factory racing guide that I will be using this time around...

Posted via CB10

[Mr4aces]

...it's easy to tout 'bad management, and wasted $$' (if I completely agree with you on that is a different matter) with hindsight...and this is the problem that I have with about all your posts...as far as the PlayBook and the tool belt are concerned, I am glad that they tried to go after more market share...that takes a lot...and I bought two PlayBook's at top dollar...a Wi-Fi 32GB and an LTE 32GB at both respective launches...do I regret it?...not at all...I own two tablets that are STILL very capable in a world where such a device would have been replaced in a year *cough Apple*...some whine about the whole BlackBerry 10 not being delivered after it was loosely promised...before finding out that it wouldn't work as nicely as they would want it to...I would rather have the OS that I have now, rather than a botched and hacked BlackBerry 10...anyway, a lot of the slick features of BlackBerry 10 are actually on PlayBook OS...just under a different name...like 'Peek and Flow'...or Hub..etc...

You have to remember, this (BlackBerry) company had to make a big decision when they did...stay and try and improve a dead decade old horse?...or re-write their entire landscape...OS and hardware...basically become a whole new company...and at the same time still have to maintain the old one lone enough to enable the transition...and they don't have the bankroll of say Apple or MS to do it with...I for one think that they did a hell of a job all things considered...and what we have is arguably THE BEST OS to date, and they still aren't done...hardware that is better than most...sure we don't yet have the bleeding edge specs...but those done matter anymore when the software is done right...and that's what we have in BlackBerry 10...you can pine about the 'old days' and what not...but BlackBerry was skillful in getting what they got out of BlackBerry OS...if they can get the same from the current framework I think that we will be in for a treat...

Posted via CB10

I didn't say it was the worst OS. I said it was better. What I did say is it is not what it should be after all the money that was poured into it.

[dredewten85]

Maybe its just me but I do not understand why the non removable battery is such a deal breaker. I'm not a business man or owner, just a plain math teacher in graduate school. No more battery pulls in the old os7 with bb10 and the batteries that are non-removable are more than 2-3 times bigger that the 9900 battery. Could someone please explain to me why this is so important? When I had my z30 earlier this year, I rarely ever needed to charge it through the day and I use my phone more than my laptop when working and schooling.

[mkelley65]

The Q20 is BlackBerry's attempt to win back the old enterprise users who bought a Q10 and didn't like it that they decided to switch to iPhone or Android. Unfortunately this is only part of the problem why enterprise companies moved away from BBRY and BES, the other issue is the exec's that have multiple mailboxes found out really quickly they can't attach their secondary mailboxes to their BB10 devices and that there was no support for this feature; a feature that worked perfectly under BES 5 using MAPI.

So it's safe to say BlackBerry still has a huge mountain to climb to attract all those enterprise businesses they once had.

Huh? I've had multiple mailboxes on my Z10 since day one.

[mkelley65]

ML/RIM still left PlayBook users out in the cold after paying top dollar. Another reason why vendors and consumers don't like/trust RIM/BB.

And a tool belt. I don't think I'm the only one that didn't switch to the Q10 bc no tool belt.

So another example of bad management by putting a product on the market without testing it or using cheap parts. And another reason why BB has 1% of mobile sales.

It all adds up and boils down to bad decisions and poor management.

So now you can see why my thread was started about how much $$ was wasted due to poor management.

I'm not sure how PlayBook users were left out in the cold. My PlayBooks are still working just fine.