[HabsFan9860]

...the old BlackBerry's were a great device in their time...that time has gone and has been gone for a few years...I look at them in this respect...BlackBerry of old was a super pager/PDA with a phone onto it (and I say 'super' as later on they would run some apps too)...a BlackBerry 10 device is more akin to a miniature PC...what would one think is more powerful?

Posted via CB10

[Mr4aces]

...I 'do get it'...I think that it's you that is lost on the idea...there is nothing that you can tell me that the Legacy OS devices (and I have used a device from all the variations from the first colour, all the way to one of the last OS 7.1.xx models...always the flagship models too)...can do over and above my Z30...or even my Q10 for that matter...the thing is that you have been on the same structure since OS 4ish I would think...that's a long time to get settled...to fully appreciate BlackBerry 10, you have to put in some solid hours...in the three digit range...before you will get BlackBerry 10 and it's superiority...I could never unbox my old Bold 9900 and be anywhere near as freely productive when I'm working (by freely, I mean anytime..anywhere), and also get what I want to do when I'm at play...like I said before, I can communicate very well for my business on my old BlackBerry's...I can RUN my business with my new BlackBerry...

Posted via CB10

Are you comparing the BB10 on a gesture phone? or the Q10? I said BB10 BBM sucks compared to OS7's BBM. I ask anyone at BB why does BB10 not have all the features OS7 has? I don't want some phoney boloney answer that it work better for internet and playing Candy Crush. I want a reason why the BBM does not come close to the same.

And the subject matter of this thread was about how much money ML/RIM wasted but we can discuss anything you like. Just don't give this Pinterest crap that is not even written by BB.

[Bbnivende]

If all you do is send and receive emails and texts the 9900 is a good phone. Buy one while you can and stay with it. The rest of the world has moved on.

[idssteve]

What version of legacy were you using? There are a couple ways to "cut and paste" a 99. I'm not particularly fond of the one you described but even that process is pretty efficient with a SINGLE thumb on a 9900. I, for one, never really got as efficient at single handed "select, cut and paste" on the Z. Managed to do it but the 99 was easier for most things single handed. Most in my office feel similarly.


I used to use a Bold 9900 and a Torch 9860...that was the most universal C&P method that I was used to...

...but as a point to the 10, I edited your post down to the above paragraph one tap and hold, two swipes...and a tap of the backspace for each of the surrounding paragraphs...for about a total of maybe 7-10 seconds...and all one handed and one thumb on a Z30...even easier on a Z10 as it is a little narrower...not as quick on any older BlackBerry device...as I said before...I have been on BlackBerry 10 since it first came out, so I am extremely fluid on the OS and all its features...just as I was back in the day when I was on my old 7580 (or 7850 I don't remember other than it was the first colour model) then the Storm, and then Torch 9860/ Bold 9900...BlackBerry 10 is a huge step away from the old guard...and it does take time to get fully familiar and efficient with it...just as the VK doesn't seem too awesome out of the box, but once you get used to it, and it learns you and your typing habits...it can make a horrible (the back button was the most heavily used key in my old QWERTY's) typist look 100x's better that they actually are...lol


Posted via CB10

Hmm, well, not that it matters but if you get a chance to play with a later os 99 you'll find the entire c&p process can be accomplished without ever taking your thumb off of the trackpad. I'm using 7.1.0.1066. Scroll trackpad to hover cursor where you want it. Press and hold trackpad to pop up "select text" already highlighted. Press trackpad again to show teardrops. Scroll trackpad to highlight desired text. Press trackpad to pop up "copy" already highlighted. (Scroll trackpad over to "cut" if that's what you prefer.) Pres Trackpad to copy/cut. Scroll trackpad to new location. Press trackpad to pop up "paste" already highlighted.

If moving text to another application, after selecting and cutting, press and hold "BB key" to bring up running apps. OR press "end key" to get back to home screen. Use trackpad to open desired app. Scroll trackpad to desired location. Press trackpad to pop up "paste" already highlighted. Press trackpad again to paste.

There are a couple other methods as well, including using the 9900's touch interface. I guess individual preference and efficiency will depend on how much cutting, pasting and deleting you do. The most intense editing we do in my office is in excel. Typically 100+ cell per day. Unless the new BB10 version has somehow improved, selecting and editing 100+ spreadsheet cells is faster, few mistakes, and less stress using excel on 9900 than it ever was on Z or Q. That performance is well quantified for 26 workers in my office.

I do miss some of the BB10 editing attributes but just can't get by without other attributes of the 9900. Back to the OP, it sure looks to me that BBRY could have saved a fortune by fitting BB10 into upgraded guts inside of the 9900 chassis. I, for one, am not giving up on the hope that BBRY will one day do something similar to that.

[eduzojordan]

I have to ask, if BB10 is so good, why have so many millions of businessmen, CEOs, VPs etc moved to iOS, Android and Windows?

They moved when Apple offered and alternative to the "great" BB OS !!!
Check dates, when iOS appeared there was BB OS not BB 10.
FYI, BB 10 is post iOS, Android and Windows.

[eduzojordan]

I ask anyone at BB why does BB10 not have all the features OS7 has? I don't want some phoney boloney answer that it work better for internet and playing Candy Crush. I want a reason why the BBM does not come close to the same.

And the subject matter of this thread was about how much money ML/RIM wasted but we can discuss anything you like. Just don't give this Pinterest crap that is not even written by BB.

Wow, only your opinions are valid? And people that not agrees with you is just saying crap?
Can you read, your own posts? You are the one that talked about social feeds! FYI, Pinterest
is a social network, that is the reason I mentioned. Show some respect to others people opinion,
and if you are not ready to accept opinions that differ from yours, don't post!!!

[Andy Wijaya]

Wow, only your opinions are valid? And people that not agrees with you is just saying crap?
Can you read, your own posts? You are the one that talked about social feeds! FYI, Pinterest
is a social network, that is the reason I mentioned. Show some respect to others people opinion,
and if you are not ready to accept opinions that differ from yours, don't post!!!

True. He just slam every opinion that's different than his.

[Dave Bourque]

Out with the old and bring in the new. All I got to say about this thread.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247

[Dave Bourque]

Are you comparing the BB10 on a gesture phone? or the Q10? I said BB10 BBM sucks compared to OS7's BBM. I ask anyone at BB why does BB10 not have all the features OS7 has?

Second thing I need to say is this. BB10 doesn't have all the BB7 features for simply one reason. Rewriting all code from scratch. Figure out the rest yourself.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247

[idssteve]

They moved when Apple offered and alternative to the "great" BB OS !!!
Check dates, when iOS appeared there was BB OS not BB 10.
FYI, BB 10 is post iOS, Android and Windows.

So that's why sales loss ACCELERATED after BB10 intro? lol I'm not saying BBOS didn't have hideous troubles at times. But it was eventually massaged into relative stability. Good enough to have outsold BB10 until last month.

RIM's sales peaked several years after iOS intro'd. The first major dip in sales corresponds pretty closely to the Storm fiasco. Sales picked back up the next year as the trackpad was intro'd and started slipping again a couple years later as the aging OS started struggling with touch interface. That slip turned into a free fall after BB10's intro. 6 months ago BBOS was outselling BB10!!

Of course numbers can be looked at MANY ways so, fwiw.

I think what the op is trying to say, if i understand, is that instead of abandoning BBOS entirely, it might have been cheaper and easier to "nurse" it along by limiting the load of BBOS's touch interface functionality and let BB10 specialize as touch only OS. At least until BB10 achieves maturity. If i understand his reasoning right, i would agree with that. Assuming it could be made to work. Since i have no clue IF that strategy could work, i see value in discussing it among these forums. Here we are.

[LeeU1911]

Making BB10, to me, is a great move. Technology's moving fast. BBOS can't keep up with Dual/Quad Core, RAM and newer hardware/technologies.

With BBOS, will we ever have HDMI port, Miracast, Wifi Direct, USB On-The-Go, BlackBerry Natural Sound, Paratek Antenna, the Hub, faster and modern browser, Dual/Quad Core CPU, more RAM, Time Of Flight sensor, etc. I personally don't think so.

With BB10, they did miss some of the stuffs that made BlackBerry the best productivity devices on the planet with its current state. But I can see a whole lot of those features are already updated so far with 10.2.1 or coming with 10.3. Also, the toolbelt will be back with the Classic.

And, no, BB10 is not 2 or 3 years old. It is 1 year and 7 months old.

Feel free to look at iOS, Android and Windows Phone OS at their 3 years old mile stones and you'll see how mature BB10 is at the moment.

Did BlackBerry wasted money? Probably. But you can't get it back.

[LeeU1911]

I think what the op is trying to say, if i understand, is that instead of abandoning BBOS entirely, it might have been cheaper and easier to "nurse" it along by limiting the load of BBOS's touch interface functionality and let BB10 specialize as touch only OS. At least until BB10 achieves maturity. If i understand his reasoning right, i would agree with that. Assuming it could be made to work. Since i have no clue IF that strategy could work, i see value in discussing it among these forums. Here we are.

Yup. That's why they introduced the 9720. :-)

[Dave Bourque]

So that's why sales loss ACCELERATED after BB10 intro? lol I'm not saying BBOS didn't have hideous troubles at times. But it was eventually massaged into relative stability. Good enough to have outsold BB10 until last month.

RIM's sales peaked several years after iOS intro'd. The first major dip in sales corresponds pretty closely to the Storm fiasco. Sales picked back up the next year as the trackpad was intro'd and started slipping again a couple years later as the aging OS started struggling with touch interface. That slip turned into a free fall after BB10's intro. 6 months ago BBOS was outselling BB10!!

Of course numbers can be looked at MANY ways so, fwiw.

I think what the op is trying to say, if i understand, is that instead of abandoning BBOS entirely, it might have been cheaper and easier to "nurse" it along by limiting the load of BBOS's touch interface functionality and let BB10 specialize as touch only OS. At least until BB10 achieves maturity. If i understand his reasoning right, i would agree with that. Assuming it could be made to work. Since i have no clue IF that strategy could work, i see value in discussing it among these forums. Here we are.

6 months ago BBOS still had BIS and cheaper devices. Of course it outsold BB10... and people don't know what BB10 is anyway so they get the cheaper familiar BlackBerry.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247

[Heinz Katchup]

BB10 maybe 11 will ultimately end up being legacy BBOS on steroids. It takes time to see the desired effect steroids have on its user. Be patient.

Posted with X10 via CB10

[idssteve]

Making BB10, to me, is a great move. Technology's moving fast. BBOS can't keep up with Dual/Quad Core, RAM and newer hardware/technologies.

With BBOS, will we ever have HDMI port, Miracast, Wifi Direct, USB On-The-Go, BlackBerry Natural Sound, Paratek Antenna, the Hub, faster and modern browser, Dual/Quad Core CPU, more RAM, Time Of Flight sensor, etc. I personally don't think so.

With BB10, they did miss some of the stuffs that made BlackBerry the best productivity devices on the planet with its current state. But I can see a whole lot of those features are already updated and coming with 10.3. Also, the toolbelt will be back with the Classic.

And, no, BB10 is not 2 or 3 years old. It is 1 year and 7 months old.

Feel free to look at iOS, Android and Windows Phone OS at there 3 years old mile stones and you'll see how mature BB10 is at the moment.

BB10 IS maturing! QNX has GREAT potential. Gratifying to see a BB10 toolbelt device. Life is good! Now if they can just bring themselves to combine BB10, toolbelt AND swappable battery, life will be even better!

[idssteve]

6 months ago BBOS still had BIS and cheaper devices. Of course it outsold BB10... and people don't know what BB10 is anyway so they get the cheaper familiar BlackBerry.

Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3247

Yeah, that's a logical explanation. It does illustrate the importance pricing can play and how little importance OS version can play.

My point, several posts back, was to point out that blaming BBOS for all of RIM's troubles is probably an oversimplification. I, for one, felt trouble in paradise back when the Verizon sales person commented about BlackBerry "on it's way out" and tried to talk me into a droid instead of my 9650. How many years ago would that have been? We all have our favorite theory but that experience led me to conclude that RIM had somehow gotten on the wrong side of Verizon. If that's so, pricing, specs or OS wont make a dent in that sales handicap. JMO.

[Soulstream]

I think that if they held out for BB10 to get ALL features from BB OS, they wouldn't have launched it even today. That said, for a technological point of view, switching to BB10 had to be done. BB OS phones were popular because they could do things that no other phone could. Now every smartphones does the exact same thing, only in a slightly different way. Buying iOS, Android, WP or BB10 has become more about preference, than "I need that phone cause nobody else can do that".

[Carrtman]

I find it funny how defensive some people are getting over something as basic as an OS/smartphone.

To me it doesn't really matter if people think BB7 is slow/outdated/old or whatever fact of the matter is in terms of Blackberry abilities it does offer me features BB 10 (for whatever reason to this date doesn't). I'm not willing nor interested in swyping;sliding around on my phone I want it to get the job done, gestures aren't helping in that regard at all. Yeah the BB 7 browser was/is slow but the BB 10 isn't much better if you compare it to more famous mobile counterparts such as Dolphin, Boat Browser, Firefox so why doesn't BB allow us to change the browser ?

Also there seems to be a comon missconception about the programmable LED, open API all BB needs to do is give the devs of such Apps access to the API and we would be seeing the so much loved Fonware Apps, Bebuzz and other cool stuff rolling around. The longer Blackberry keeps their API "closed" the more likely it will become that the best developers will say screw it and move on to other plattforms.

If the rumors are true and the classic really comes without a removable battery then personally I don't have much to add and will move fully to Android. Q 10 with an added toolbelt is nice but BB also needs to make sure that the OS works in a same way without ever having to use the touchscreen (an option to turn it off/on).

I find it really hard to understand why BB just doesn't release a powerful phone that hits all cylinders the Passport looks gorgeaus fine...but no toolbelt, only 3 row keyboard (again!) and a fixed battery - -> that's not what I expect from BB. The classic has a toolbelt (that's a thumbs up), but there are already rumors about a non removable battery and no info about a programmable LED, open API which especially in terms of macrobility is a must have for some us.

A good comparison would be Ubuntu before the unity version and after. Canocal basically told the non unity users either adapt or move on and well some found a way to install Gnome anyways others moved on to Arch Linux, Mint ..

Don't get me wrong I want BB to do well but I also know what I want and need from a phone, so far BB 10 doesn't offer this. But the Classic hasn't been released yet so there is still time and if it doesn't well on to Note 4 or LG G 3 Cat . 6

BB 10 should have gone the Android route and provide home, menu, recent apps and back buttons physically and digitally instead of going gestures, gestures and gestures...

[Andy Wijaya]

I find it funny how defensive some people are getting over something as basic as an OS/smartphone.

To me it doesn't really matter if people think BB7 is slow/outdated/old or whatever fact of the matter is in terms of Blackberry abilities it does offer me features BB 10 (for whatever reason to this date doesn't). I'm not willing nor interested in swyping;sliding around on my phone I want it to get the job done, gestures aren't helping in that regard at all. Yeah the BB 7 browser was/is slow but the BB 10 isn't much better if you compare it to more famous mobile counterparts such as Dolphin, Boat Browser, Firefox so why doesn't BB allow us to change the browser ?

Also there seems to be a comon missconception about the programmable LED, open API all BB needs to do is give the devs of such Apps access to the API and we would be seeing the so much loved Fonware Apps, Bebuzz and other cool stuff rolling around. The longer Blackberry keeps their API "closed" the more likely it will become that the best developers will say screw it and move on to other plattforms.

If the rumors are true and the classic really comes without a removable battery then personally I don't have much to add and will move fully to Android. Q 10 with an added toolbelt is nice but BB also needs to make sure that the OS works in a same way without ever having to use the touchscreen (an option to turn it off/on).

I find it really hard to understand why BB just doesn't release a powerful phone that hits all cylinders the Passport looks gorgeaus fine...but no toolbelt, only 3 row keyboard (again!) and a fixed battery - -> that's not what I expect from BB. The classic has a toolbelt (that's a thumbs up), but there are already rumors about a non removable battery and no info about a programmable LED, open API which especially in terms of macrobility is a must have for some us.

A good comparison would be Ubuntu before the unity version and after. Canocal basically told the non unity users either adapt or move on and well some found a way to install Gnome anyways others moved on to Arch Linux, Mint ..

Don't get me wrong I want BB to do well but I also know what I want and need from a phone, so far BB 10 doesn't offer this. But the Classic hasn't been released yet so there is still time and if it doesn't well on to Note 4 or LG G 3 Cat . 6

BB 10 should have gone the Android route and provide home, menu, recent apps and back buttons physically and digitally instead of going gestures, gestures and gestures...

Then clearly the BlackBerry 10 is not for you. Enjoy your Android. I have abandoned my Android tablet since I've got my Z10, and now even more after I got my Z30. I don't know why removable battery is very desired. In Z10, yes, because of the abysmal battery life. But for phones with excellent battery life, it is hardly needed.

[igor10000]

Why not continue the OS7 under the BB10 roof?

Because it is 2014 and pulling battery every 5 minutes is so 2009. Restarting the phone after installing an application?
The system was dated and reached its end of life. Period.

[pdizzle27]

Agreed. All I wanted was a better browser and camera. There are many things I like about my z10, but I hated it until OS 10.2.1.

Posted via CB10

[Andy Wijaya]

Because it is 2014 and pulling battery every 5 minutes is so 2009. Restarting the phone after installing an application?
The system was dated and reached its end of life. Period.

This.

[conite]

And for the record, I much prefer bbm on bb10 over bbos.

In addition, a physical keyboard can't keep up to my thumbs anymore. I type at least a third faster on my Z30 over my 9900. I do a lot of typing.

OP, you have very limited and specific requirements for a device. I'm glad it works for you. But don't suggest BlackBerry blew it because they didn't optimize their entire business model around your rather peculiar needs. And don't suggest that because other people's needs are not the same as yours that they must simply play candy crush all day.

I'm sure a buggy whip still works very well for those who still get around on horse drawn carriages. Many of us have moved on to cars however.


Z30STA100-5/10.3.0.1xxx

[belfastdispatcher]

Good to see others feeling the same way.

[Jimberry Storm]

I don't agree, but I am an all touch user so maybe thats why. I think the BBOS was just end of life, could not keep up with modern tech. Too many can'ts on that BBOS. Does it do some things better than the BB10, yes no argument, but they are fixing and augmenting it all the time. It is only a year and 4-8 months old. When the BBOS was that young it was just as flawed and featureless as BB10. I want to go forwards not backwards. JMO