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  1. lnichols's Avatar
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    #26  

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    Quote Originally Posted by howarmat View Post
    from the report a couple weeks ago. This was oct 2012 numbers in the right hand column

    http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...chinachart.jpg

    Now this is the first time they included china so they dont have the changes from last year to look at. lots of ways you can read the chart too.
    I meant RIM is, or at least was selling more phones globally than Windows Phone, not in China (is/was depends on what we hear in the upcoming conference call). Now that BB10 will have an all touch device with an OS optimized for all touch (Storm didn't count and 9850/60 weren't great either), they will have a legitimate product to tackle markets like Japan and China that have written language based on pictures. After checking some more Huwei and ZTE are already making Windows Phones, so I doubt Nokia will get a lot of traction there. It will be an interesting 2013 to see whether BB10 or WP8 wins over more people, but even if WP8 is a failure I'm sure will start hearing "just wait till WP9!"!
  2. #27  

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    I meant RIM is, or at least was selling more phones globally than Windows Phone, not in China (is/was depends on what we hear in the upcoming conference call). Now that BB10 will have an all touch device with an OS optimized for all touch (Storm didn't count and 9850/60 weren't great either), they will have a legitimate product to tackle markets like Japan and China that have written language based on pictures. After checking some more Huwei and ZTE are already making Windows Phones, so I doubt Nokia will get a lot of traction there. It will be an interesting 2013 to see whether BB10 or WP8 wins over more people, but even if WP8 is a failure I'm sure will start hearing "just wait till WP9!"!
    i agree, i think RIM wishes to forget those lol....the storms did sell in huge numbers though
    ~Matt
    OnePlus One, Nexus 5, Z10 LE, White Lumia 521, 32GB Nook HD+ & 16GB PB, 32 GB Dell Venue 8 Pro
    @howarmat
  3. notfanboy's Avatar
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    #28  

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    NOK shot up 12% on this news today.
  4. berklon's Avatar
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    #29  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderbuck View Post
    Microsoft has been trying to make a dent in mobile since the Pocket PC in '98. They couldn't even compete with Palm.
    Do you honestly think Microsoft put in a lot of effort back then? Answer: They didn't.

    Mobile technology has grown substantially and can threaten a nice chunk of Microsoft's OS and software marketshare - which is why you've seeing MS actually getting serious about it now. Never rule MS out - they're a very serious threat.
  5. sf49ers's Avatar
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    #30  

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    yep it got harder to MS/Nokia because BB10 is so much awesome
  6. sf49ers's Avatar
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    #31  

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    Quote Originally Posted by berklon View Post
    Do you honestly think Microsoft put in a lot of effort back then? Answer: They didn't.

    Mobile technology has grown substantially and can threaten a nice chunk of Microsoft's OS and software marketshare - which is why you've seeing MS actually getting serious about it now. Never rule MS out - they're a very serious threat.
    if they were serious they wouldn't release something without VPN support (WP7.x/8)
    if they were serious they wouldn't release something without enterprise support (WP 7.x)
    if they were serious they wouldn't release something without notifications (WP7.x/8)
    if they were serious they wouldn't release something without copy/paste/multi-tasking support (WP7)
    if they were serious they wouldn't release developer SDK on the launch day (WP8)
    if they were serious they wouldn't release they wouldn't make 920 exclusive to ATT.
    lnichols likes this.
  7. Specwire's Avatar
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    #32  

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    FYI, RIM is already number 3.

    They moved 8.9 million units in Q3 2012 with BB OS having a 5% market share.

    Mind you, iPhone5 probably kicked RIM in the gut pretty good throughout Q4, but if RIM can halt base churn in Q1 2013 with a strong BB10 showing, that will put them in a stronger position then they have been in awhile.
  8. kraski's Avatar
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    #33  

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    Quote Originally Posted by o4liberty View Post
    Nokia hit a home run with windows phones and if they take off they will be a thorn in Rims side.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
    If you call struggling "hit a home run", yes. But all reports seem to indicate WP hasn't done that much to turn Nokia around. For that matter, WP hasn't done that well. MS has other things going, as do Samsung and HTC. So, they have flexibility to wait for improved WP sales. Nokia dropped Symbian (which, still holds amazingly decent marketshare) and Meego (which looks like what WP should have been) and put all thrir eggs in the WP basket. Not much of a home run or thorn.
    More thoughts at Bill's Spiritual Musings. http://www.bills-musings.com
  9. SparkyBC's Avatar
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    #34  

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    Windows Phone will fail yet again. Microsoft should just give up on the market, but i understand they have to try something since PC sales are in such a slump they're bleeding money left and right. Nokia's fate is in the hands of Microsoft and if history repeats itself like it has every time already. It's will be the K.O punch to nokia's mobile venture once and for all.
  10. #35  

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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    NOK shot up 12% on this news today.
    And apple stock had their worst loss one day loss in 4 years (-6%). The Nokia China deal was specifically mentioned as a factor. This is the real deal. Nokia is doing what it takes to get ahead:
    -Swallowed their pride and went with MS software.
    -Focussed ruthlessly on handset success. I like this quote from arstechnica a few days ago.
    "The sale of its corporate headquarters will pump a bit of cash back into its accounts, but it's best seen as part of a larger strategy; like a lizard shedding its tail to escape a predator, Nokia is hacking off as much of itself as possible so that it can focus on its core business of making money by selling handsets. For better or for worse, the company has tied itself firmly to Microsoft, and the success or failure of Windows Phone 8 will likely decide Nokia's ultimate fate."

    RIM could learn something here. There is still uncertainty about BB10 coming to the geriatric PlayBook around next summer. They should call it dead now and let everyone know it is all about saving their handset business. Pump that money into BB10 handset marketing or testing. Once (if) they are more secure in survival as a company (recall Goldman Sachs etc have recently given BB10 handsets a 70% chance of failure), revisit tablets. I own a PlayBook, by the way, and think browsing etc is execrable. I would like Cascades etc but not if it contributes to the death of the company as a whole.

    As far as 3rd place, by August 2013 RIM will be 4th IMHO. Nokia, and more to the point Microsoft, won't stop this time.
    Last edited by uranium hexaflouride; 12-06-2012 at 04:06 PM. Reason: End quote.
  11. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #36  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyBC View Post
    WNokia's fate is in the hands of Microsoft and if history repeats itself like it has every time already. It's will be the K.O punch to nokia's mobile venture once and for all.
    If history repeats itself, Nokia will be back at #1 like they were 2 years ago. As for Nokia's mobile venture..... they are still the number 2 mobile phone manufacturer in the world. Not too shabby.
  12. scalemaster34's Avatar
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    #37  

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    Quote Originally Posted by SparkyBC View Post
    Windows Phone will fail yet again. Microsoft should just give up on the market, but i understand they have to try something since PC sales are in such a slump they're bleeding money left and right. Nokia's fate is in the hands of Microsoft and if history repeats itself like it has every time already. It's will be the K.O punch to nokia's mobile venture once and for all.
    Mobile devices are the market, many people have bought their last desktop machine - some people will need the power that only a desktop or laptop can currently provide, but in 5 years who knows. So if Microsoft wants to stay in the OS business and not be relegated to Enterprise and Servers only, they have to get their new Mobile OS accepted by consumers TODAY. It isn't about being #3 or #4, it is about getting at least 20% marketshare.
  13. Rickster1's Avatar
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    #38  

    Default Re: 3rd Place just got harder.

    well, in my view the death nell of the pc is much over rated. we as consumers are all jumpijg on the tablet bandwagon but I see many that languish in peoples homes. they are great for some things but laptops are still the go to device in our home given their power and flexibility. one could say the desktop is dying yes but not the pc market as a whole. in my view pc's are now like a home appliancce, not sexy play toys for. show but like a good fridge or stove, they aren't going anywhere yet. Sorry but the latest phones and tablets are great fun and mobile devices but are not home based devices yet. Great margins so they are marketed heavily but more novelty than substance at this time. As for MS, they blew it with me with their orphaning of OS's. They have left backwards compatibility out of the equation one too many times recently and there is no pressing need to upgrade for most of "us". windows 6.5 phone user waiting for BB10 to drop.
  14. RECOOL's Avatar
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    #39  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickster1 View Post
    well, in my view the death nell of the pc is much over rated. we as consumers are all jumpijg on the tablet bandwagon but I see many that languish in peoples homes. they are great for some things but laptops are still the go to device in our home given their power and flexibility. one could say the desktop is dying yes but not the pc market as a whole. in my view pc's are now like a home appliancce, not sexy play toys for. show but like a good fridge or stove, they aren't going anywhere yet. Sorry but the latest phones and tablets are great fun and mobile devices but are not home based devices yet. Great margins so they are marketed heavily but more novelty than substance at this time. As for MS, they blew it with me with their orphaning of OS's. They have left backwards compatibility out of the equation one too many times recently and there is no pressing need to upgrade for most of "us". windows 6.5 phone user waiting for BB10 to drop.
    Im convinced that tablets and this phone influx and craze is only because the next gen consoles and games have not been made.People have grown up ,got jobs ,have extra cash since they are not spending on new consoles and games,accessories,new tvs and the like.Instead they have spent it on other latest things which seems to be phones and tablets.Once the next gen consoles drop the money in the phone industry will drop big time.When next gen console release it usually follows with the wave of some new super clear HDtv,new movie player(beyond bluray),sound systems,games ect no one will be running for phones/tablets like recent years.People will be keeping phones for longer instead of jumping into renew contracts and buying new phones.Ialwasy suspect of samsungs hustle its a short term get quick while we can hustle.In a year or two there's gonan be alot of unsold phones

    Greedypops blew it they could of really switched things up but just all seemed rushed even the OS its almost like these guys dont test their product.MS should be working on updates patching up this W8 OS a little tweak here and there I can see it doing decently.I want a tabtop but Im in no rush seeing the prices and the state of things over 400+ pounds for below 50 gig with no burner (I have'nt see a burner on one of the MS tablets) its not like some people edit videos and make music not like we need cd's for testing.Your right laptops and desktop still rule.

    WP8 has'nt been selling as people predicted it has'nt lived up to its forced hyped thats all there is to it a new deal wont change things its still in the position it is around the world.
  15. ynomrah's Avatar
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    #40  

    Default Re: 3rd Place just got harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by RECOOL View Post
    Im convinced that tablets and this phone influx and craze is only because the next gen consoles and games have not been made.People have grown up ,got jobs ,have extra cash since they are not spending on new consoles and games,accessories,new tvs and the like.Instead they have spent it on other latest things which seems to be phones and tablets.Once the next gen consoles drop the money in the phone industry will drop big time.When next gen console release it usually follows with the wave of some new super clear HDtv,new movie player(beyond bluray),sound systems,games ect no one will be running for phones/tablets like recent years.People will be keeping phones for longer instead of jumping into renew contracts and buying new phones.Ialwasy suspect of samsungs hustle its a short term get quick while we can hustle.In a year or two there's gonan be alot of unsold phones

    Greedypops blew it they could of really switched things up but just all seemed rushed even the OS its almost like these guys dont test their product.MS should be working on updates patching up this W8 OS a little tweak here and there I can see it doing decently.I want a tabtop but Im in no rush seeing the prices and the state of things over 400+ pounds for below 50 gig with no burner (I have'nt see a burner on one of the MS tablets) its not like some people edit videos and make music not like we need cd's for testing.Your right laptops and desktop still rule.

    WP8 has'nt been selling as people predicted it has'nt lived up to its forced hyped thats all there is to it a new deal wont change things its still in the position it is around the world.
    You are very much underestimating the demand of mobile. I personally don't look at it as a phase of sorts as you put it, but more as the forthcoming era of mainstream computing. Already now we see the charts showing mobile computing overtaking desktop computing in browser usage for one. The entire consumer tech industry is headed in the direction of mobile and it's not a fad.

    And mobile devices can't be viewed in the same sense of a home appliance like laptops, because their primary use is for on the go.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2
    scalemaster34 likes this.
  16. aha
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    #41  

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    Ignoring Chinese market is going to be a huge mistake.
  17. independentvolume's Avatar
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    #42  

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    Quote Originally Posted by aha View Post
    Ignoring Chinese market is going to be a huge mistake.
    Yep. I honestly find these threads laughable. You find them here and over at wpcentral. Each side calling the other doomed while twisting or cherry picking news stories and opinions to strengthen their fandom. I think all of these systems are great. A person is mainly concerned with app selection, apple is the best option. A person wants to tinker, Android is the obvious choice. If someone wants a super easy and efficient system that is always smooth, wp8 is your poison. Not sure what bb10 will bring but I'm intrigued. I just hope it's enough because Microsoft is about to dump a ton of money into China and he rest of the world to make it work. Just look at the lumia 620 that nokia just announced. That screams third world market.
    RIM has outlet room for error here with only a pocket of change in which to operate.
    kevinnugent and jakie55 like this.
  18. hkkelvinlee's Avatar
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    #43  

    Default 3rd Place just got harder.

    I traveled to China like every two months, and RIM is almost unknown there. I reckon it got something to do with "too good" a security they provide if you know what I meant. That will need to change if RIM wants to open China market, like Hein (I think) recently said they have to.

    For Nokia's WP phones, the design hardware-wise is just not well liked in Asian markets generally. Nokia is known in China mostly for feature phones that never break. Don't think their WP phone design will set the China market on fire, and it did not in the past. That said, the sheer market of China Mobile will bring in significant volume but at what cost to Nokia? God know what concessions they made to China Mobile. Not to mention other brands like HTC, Huawei and ZTC will roll out their WP phones. Pure hardware manufacturers have little future except Samsung which controls the whole vertical manufacturing chain from chips, memory to display tech. No one else do, and don't copy Samsung's model if you do not.

    I reckon WP as a platform will probably do a little better than BB10 in China at least initially unless RIM pull a stunt of sort. It all depends on user experience though in the long run. I think RIM has never run any Jam session in China (Hong Kong excluded) for BB10.

    Hope I am wrong.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
  19. texazzpete's Avatar
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    #44  

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    All those predicting doom-and-gloom for Nokia are being short-sighted here

    Nokia's upcoming Lumia 620 is going to be a gamechanger and an amazing sales success

    3rd Place just got harder.-620.jpg

    A gorgeous, well designed WP8 device for $249, sporting removable backplates, NFC, AMOLED screen, Memory expandability, removable battery and decent processing power...all for just $249.

    This is initially targeted at the Asia/Pacific and Middle East market...before venturing to Europe. Release next month. They'll sell MILLIONS of these.

    Nokia stock went up 9% at the announcement.

    Huge value proposition for these phones. Aside from the $299 Nexus 4 (which isn't available in most markets and which Google has no plans to mass produce), this is pretty much an excellent budget phone.
    Roo Zilla and kevinnugent like this.
  20. lnichols's Avatar
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    #45  

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    Quote Originally Posted by texazzpete View Post
    Nokia's upcoming Lumia 620 is going to be a gamechanger and an amazing sales success
    I believe this comment, and similar ones, have been made by various individuals, news outlets, etc. on the Internet about every Lumia device released/announced. Your prediction may be right, even a broken clock is right twice a day, but the recent history of Windows Phone and Nokia/Lumia could not be used to support that claim. What does a Nokia made Windows phone offer over a Huwei or ZTE Windows Phone made in China? Why would someone choose a cheap Windows Phone over a cheap Android phone? What are the key differentiators, other than a tiled UI for Windows Phone over Android? These are what users will be looking for and asking when they go to purchase a device. RIM will have to address the same questions from consumers when they get the entry level BB10 devices to market too.
  21. #46  

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    Quote Originally Posted by scalemaster34 View Post
    Mobile devices are the market, many people have bought their last desktop machine - some people will need the power that only a desktop or laptop can currently provide, but in 5 years who knows. So if Microsoft wants to stay in the OS business and not be relegated to Enterprise and Servers only, they have to get their new Mobile OS accepted by consumers TODAY. It isn't about being #3 or #4, it is about getting at least 20% marketshare.
    3rd Place just got harder.-imagekos.jpg

    MS is going to push hard in the mobile space. If that costs money in the short or medium term, so be it. As of Aug 12 Microsoft had $63 billion cash reserves.

    Someone, presumably disparagingly, pointed out above, "but even if WP8 is a failure I'm sure will start hearing 'just wait till WP9' ".

    Exactly.
    Roo Zilla likes this.
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #47  

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    I don't get it, are people really rooting for Nokia on Crackberry? That what it seems like.
  23. independentvolume's Avatar
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    #48  

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    I don't get it, are people really rooting for Nokia on Crackberry? That what it seems like.
    Why wouldn't they? If it wasn't for other companies your craptastic Bold wouldn't exist.
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    #49  

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    Quote Originally Posted by independentvolume View Post
    Why wouldn't they? If it wasn't for other companies your craptastic Bold wouldn't exist.
    I'm pretty sure my Bold 9900 would still exist regardless of any Nokia Windows Phone except it's fantastic not craptastic, thank you.
  25. grover5's Avatar
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    #50  

    Default Re: 3rd Place just got harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    I believe this comment, and similar ones, have been made by various individuals, news outlets, etc. on the Internet about every Lumia device released/announced. Your prediction may be right, even a broken clock is right twice a day, but the recent history of Windows Phone and Nokia/Lumia could not be used to support that claim. What does a Nokia made Windows phone offer over a Huwei or ZTE Windows Phone made in China? Why would someone choose a cheap Windows Phone over a cheap Android phone? What are the key differentiators, other than a tiled UI for Windows Phone over Android? These are what users will be looking for and asking when they go to purchase a device. RIM will have to address the same questions from consumers when they get the entry level BB10 devices to market too.
    Well said. I'm tired of hearing how the next windows nokia phone will be the game changer. It never is. But like you said,even a broken clock is right twice a day. There are enough broken clocks on crackberry desperate to prove that theory right as well.
    lnichols likes this.
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