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  1. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Default 3rd Place just got harder.

    It seems Nokia has just signed a deal to start taking orders for their WP8 phones on China Mobile at the end of the year. As many already know, China Mobile is the world's largest mobile operator with over 700 million subscribers. They are the largest carrier in the world's largest market for smartphones and also a place where Nokia is still a popular brand. Most people in China have never heard of Blackberry, even though they've had a store in Shanghai for at least 4 years, maybe longer.

    Nokia Moves to Regain Lost Ground in China - WSJ.com
  2. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    That doesn't mean it will sell, there's not that much interest in WP8 and Apple just started selling the iphone 5 in China.
  3. simu31's Avatar
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    Well, lets hope they do better there than they have anywhere else with Windows Phone 8. Although the first few weeks looked ok-ish (although still very low compared to the two incumbants), their sales have been dropping off in current markets since then.

    Maybe China will buy into the Window Phone 8 idea.

    Si.
  4. lnichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    It seems Nokia has just signed a deal to start taking orders for their WP8 phones on China Mobile at the end of the year. As many already know, China Mobile is the world's largest mobile operator with over 700 million subscribers. They are the largest carrier in the world's largest market for smartphones and also a place where Nokia is still a popular brand. Most people in China have never heard of Blackberry, even though they've had a store in Shanghai for at least 4 years, maybe longer.

    Nokia Moves to Regain Lost Ground in China - WSJ.com
    Nokia lost ground to homegrown Chinese products made ZTE and Huwei. Don't worry if Windows Phone does get any success in China it will be cloned by a cheaper alternative, or Huwei and/or ZTE will release a Windows Phone, or Windows Phone clone at a lower pricepoint. While China is a huge market, it is also a market that doesn't value intellectual property or fair business practices.

    Also RIM is still selling more BBOS 7 devices than Windows is selling Windows Phone devices as of last numbers known for both.
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    Nokia lost ground to homegrown Chinese products made ZTE and Huwei. Don't worry if Windows Phone does get any success in China it will be cloned by a cheaper alternative, or Huwei and/or ZTE will release a Windows Phone, or Windows Phone clone at a lower pricepoint. While China is a huge market, it is also a market that doesn't value intellectual property or fair business practices.

    Also RIM is still selling more BBOS 7 devices than Windows is selling Windows Phone devices as of last numbers known for both.
    Lol, yes, I'm sure they'll have a dual sim copy in no time.
  6. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    That doesn't mean it will sell, there's not that much interest in WP8 and Apple just started selling the iphone 5 in China.
    There's a big difference. iPhone sells only on China Unicom and China Telecom. Neither has even a quarter of the number of subscribers China Mobile has. It would be like if iPhone was only available on Sprint and T-Mobile in the US.
  7. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    Nokia lost ground to homegrown Chinese products made ZTE and Huwei. Don't worry if Windows Phone does get any success in China it will be cloned by a cheaper alternative, or Huwei and/or ZTE will release a Windows Phone, or Windows Phone clone at a lower pricepoint. While China is a huge market, it is also a market that doesn't value intellectual property or fair business practices.
    While all this is quite possible, Nokia still has one thing going for it. It's still seen as a very positive brand in China. For similar reasons, Chinese branded cars don't sell very well here, even though almost all cars sold in China are made in China. Xiaomi 2 is a legitimate competitor to the Samsung S3.

    Addendum: I forgot to mention the most obvious foreign brand that has had phenomenal success in China, Samsung. There are the number one seller of mobile phones in China and don't believe for a minute there aren't Samsung alternatives that sell for much less.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 12-05-2012 at 08:45 AM.
  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    While all this is quite possible, Nokia still has one thing going for it. It's still seen as a very positive brand in China. For similar reasons, Chinese branded cars don't sell very well here, even though almost all cars sold in China are made in China.
    The problem is Nokia use to make high quality small/slim/slick phones, now the 920 is a brick of a phone by any modern standards.
  9. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    The problem is Nokia use to make high quality small/slim/slick phones, now the 920 is a brick of a phone by any modern standards.
    Oh yah, I completely agree. The 920, and the soon to be 920T weigh almost half a pound. I would never get one, but that's personal taste. I would never get a Samsung S3 either, but those things sell like hotcakes here. Who knows, maybe the 920T and it's brethren will be a complete dud in China. Maybe it will help them regain their glory days when they were the number one selling mobile phone maker in China. The most likely scenario is something in between.
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    Oh yah, I completely agree. The 920, and the soon to be 920T weigh almost half a pound. I would never get one, but that's personal taste. I would never get a Samsung S3 either, but those things sell like hotcakes here. Who knows, maybe the 920T and it's brethren will be a complete dud in China. Maybe it will help them regain their glory days when they were the number one selling mobile phone maker in China. The most likely scenario is something in between.
    Lol, I was watching its unboxing video on Always On, CNET, and they called it the "humvee" of smarphones. Brick was also used often.
    Roo Zilla likes this.
  11. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    Lol, I was watching its unboxing video on Always On, CNET, and they called it the "humvee" of smarphones. Brick was also used often.
    When I was in Hong Kong last week, I played around with one. Yep, "Humvee of smartphones" is a good description. It didn't help it was sitting next to an iPhone 5.
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    No one ever said #3 was going to be easy...
    Ed

    Be bold. Be pantless. Then go take a nice long nap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepngbear View Post
    No one ever said #3 was going to be easy...
    And no one said it would be difficult too. Fingers crossed (on hands and legs too ).

    And just a question, why are we looking at the 3rd place or any place in this rat race? I would prefer talking more on how BB10 brings RIM back to profitability.
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  14. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    Its windows. Their expertise is computer software not phones
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  15. simu31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    ...even though almost all cars sold in China are made in China.
    Just a point of fact; it's because China imposes MASSIVE import taxes on cars (about 22%) imported to China, whereas those made there don't suffer the same taxes. That's why locally made cars sell more. Most "foreign" [to China] car manufacturers have openned a factory in the country to bypass import taxes

    Si.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes View Post
    Its windows. Their expertise is computer software not phones
    They said the same thing about Microsoft's expertise being in computers and not gaming consoles.
    They also said MS didn't have the expertise to knock off Novell as the default network OS, or for Exchange to take over enterprise e-mail, or SQL taking a nice marketshare from other relational databases.

    Microsoft has a decent track record of entering into new markets. Windows Phone is slow to get going, but make no mistake - Microsoft is in it for the long haul and things will start to pick up soon.
    It's not a question of quality as WP8 is pretty nice - marketing is what MS needs to address.
  17. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berklon View Post
    They said the same thing about Microsoft's expertise being in computers and not gaming consoles.
    They also said MS didn't have the expertise to knock off Novell as the default network OS, or for Exchange to take over enterprise e-mail, or SQL taking a nice marketshare from other relational databases.

    Microsoft has a decent track record of entering into new markets. Windows Phone is slow to get going, but make no mistake - Microsoft is in it for the long haul and things will start to pick up soon.
    It's not a question of quality as WP8 is pretty nice - marketing is what MS needs to address.
    Make no mistake. Blackberry will remain third.
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  18. howarmat's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    Nokia lost ground to homegrown Chinese products made ZTE and Huwei. Don't worry if Windows Phone does get any success in China it will be cloned by a cheaper alternative, or Huwei and/or ZTE will release a Windows Phone, or Windows Phone clone at a lower pricepoint. While China is a huge market, it is also a market that doesn't value intellectual property or fair business practices.

    Also RIM is still selling more BBOS 7 devices than Windows is selling Windows Phone devices as of last numbers known for both.
    from the report a couple weeks ago. This was oct 2012 numbers in the right hand column





    Now this is the first time they included china so they dont have the changes from last year to look at. lots of ways you can read the chart too.
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  19. FreeJACLive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes View Post
    Its windows. Their expertise is computer software not phones
    Not true. Windows Mobile was around way long before the iPhone was even on the drafting table. (Audiovox Thera anyone?) Don't forget the iPAQ as well. They have a long history in this space. At one time we had a mixture of Windows Mobile and Blackberry this was until BES came along then we standardized and been Blackberry ever since and not changing anytime soon.
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howarmat View Post
    I think he meant overall not China alone. Besides, that says Windows, not WP8 or WP7
  21. o4liberty's Avatar
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    Default 3rd Place just got harder.

    Nokia hit a home run with windows phones and if they take off they will be a thorn in Rims side.

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  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeJACLive View Post
    Not true. Windows Mobile was around way long before the iPhone was even on the drafting table. (Audiovox Thera anyone?) Don't forget the iPAQ as well. They have a long history in this space. At one time we had a mixture of Windows Mobile and Blackberry this was until BES came along then we standardized and been Blackberry ever since and not changing anytime soon.
    Yeah but at that time the smartphone market was so tiny it was practically a niche.


    I think if you would put WinMo on today's hardware it would be a far more powerful OS then WP8.

    Oh, does anybody remember, Microsoft used to charge for WinMo OS updates, that's one thing that contributed towards its death.
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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastdispatcher View Post
    I think he meant overall not China alone. Besides, that says Windows, not WP8 or WP7
    maybe but that was not how i read it since the entire rest of the post was about Chine specifically. And its all windows phone sales for the 12 weeks leading up until the end of Oct, just like all blackberry, all android etc.

    I dont think any were WP8 based on that being end of Oct numbers
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    Quote Originally Posted by berklon View Post
    They said the same thing about Microsoft's expertise being in computers and not gaming consoles.
    They also said MS didn't have the expertise to knock off Novell as the default network OS, or for Exchange to take over enterprise e-mail, or SQL taking a nice marketshare from other relational databases.

    Microsoft has a decent track record of entering into new markets. Windows Phone is slow to get going, but make no mistake - Microsoft is in it for the long haul and things will start to pick up soon.
    It's not a question of quality as WP8 is pretty nice - marketing is what MS needs to address.
    Microsoft has been trying to make a dent in mobile since the Pocket PC in '98. They couldn't even compete with Palm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by howarmat View Post
    from the report a couple weeks ago. This was oct 2012 numbers in the right hand column

    http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...chinachart.jpg



    Now this is the first time they included china so they dont have the changes from last year to look at. lots of ways you can read the chart too.
    Sales or marketshare
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