1. Loc22's Avatar
    As we all know that there is a cash crisis going on in India where 90% of daily transactions are done on cash. If BBM money is there could it have filled the gap?

    This is CNN's report on this crisis. Mobile payments firms are cashing in on India's rupee crisis - Dec. 1, 2016

    I have also read just today that the biggest fintech conference in the world was recently held in Singapore. In case any of you are not sure what fintech means, it's using technology to fill the gap for financial services. This apparently is going to be the new economic boost in this region.

    The ASEAN Region consists of 10 countries including Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos Myanmar and Brunei. The region's population consists of 680 million inhabitants and a huge proportion of them in the rural areas do not have any bank accounts. They rely heavily on cash.

    Many young men & women from these rural areas move to urban areas in search of opportunities as work is scarce in rural areas. Some of them rely on the black market to transport money back home on a regular basis for their families. Others depends on friends and families travelling back to remit funds home. If BBM money can fill this gap it might give it a new lease of life.

    Let's look at Malaysia for instance, it has a 30 million population. Of this 30 million it also have 3 million registered foreign workers from Indonesia, those unregistered is said to be the same amount if not more. It also have 1 million Bangladeshi workers living here at the moment and over the next year there will be another 1.5 million more coming from Bangladesh. There are also a sizeable population of Nepalese, Filipino, Vietnamese, Thai, Burmese, Chinese and Indian foreign workers here too of which I do not have the numbers.

    These people who work here will remit money home to their families on a regular basis and as you know many of these people do not have a bank account so they will also remit money via money changers and other black market means to get money back home. I'm not sure if these methods poses a higher risk for them but they are definitely not via very established institutions.

    I'm sure that most of the readers here and also the people at BlackBerry do not know that it is possible to go to a money changer to remit money overseas and this manner of remittance is much faster than sending money via the banks. It can be done literally within minutes and huge amounts of money can reach your family members back home and they cash it out there. All it takes is just a phone call.

    If mobile payments can fill this void I'm sure it will be very formidable. Would BBM Money ever consider filling this gap?
    12-01-16 01:06 PM
  2. Jayasheelan's Avatar
    Well, I don't think Blackberry would even think of moving forward with the idea. Even if they tried to, Paytm will demolish them.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-16 01:25 PM
  3. Loc22's Avatar
    Well, I don't think Blackberry would even think of moving forward with the idea. Even if they tried to, Paytm will demolish them.

    Posted via CB10
    Just out of curiosity how does PayMT work? How does a user use it?
    12-01-16 08:02 PM
  4. itsyaboy's Avatar
    How do you see BBM Money playing a role here, if payments are generally in cash?

    Posted via CB10
    Uzi likes this.
    12-02-16 10:27 AM
  5. Loc22's Avatar
    How do you see BBM Money playing a role here, if payments are generally in cash?

    Posted via CB10
    Because there is insufficient cash in the market and people are having trouble getting cash from the banks to make payments. They are now switching to mobile payment methods.
    12-02-16 12:29 PM
  6. app_Developer's Avatar
    Because there is insufficient cash in the market and people are having trouble getting cash from the banks to make payments. They are now switching to mobile payment methods.
    Yeah, I think you're right, that's what we're seeing happening.

    The question for BBM is that how quickly can they get into this market now? Is BBM Money even operational in India today? PayTM is very well established already in that market.
    12-02-16 01:44 PM
  7. itsyaboy's Avatar
    Because there is insufficient cash in the market and people are having trouble getting cash from the banks to make payments. They are now switching to mobile payment methods.
    Okay, but that would mean that all kinds of shops would need to use it and all kind of service providers would need to do so too. Then, they would also need to be able to convert it to cash somehow, that means collaboration with banks.

    How would you arrange all of these things? Like concretely..?

    Edit: you would need the banks anyway, otherwise BBM Money is worthless. Would you say banks in that region would want to collaborate with BlackBerry? They might just develop their own mobile payment system?

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by itsyaboy; 12-02-16 at 02:04 PM.
    12-02-16 01:50 PM
  8. Loc22's Avatar
    Okay, but that would mean that all kinds of shops would need to use it and all kind of service providers would need to do so too. Then, they would also need to be able to convert it to cash somehow, that means collaboration with banks.

    How would you arrange all of these things? Like concretely..?

    Edit: you would need the banks anyway, otherwise BBM Money is worthless. Would you say banks in that region would want to collaborate with BlackBerry? They might just develop their own mobile payment system?

    Posted via CB10
    You are right, they would need to work with banks. BBM money has been around for years what have they been up to?

    In Malaysia the banks has been developing mobile payments using SMS for the last few years. Have they looked into this market yet?

    Why would you say it is worthless? I think it has huge potential especially when developed properly together with BBM Channels, shopping, games and many more services on the BBM platform.
    12-02-16 06:00 PM
  9. bobshine's Avatar
    How can BBM Money make headway in India? What's the market penetration of BBM there? What's the brand perception? Does Blackberry even have any experience or infrastructure to serve such a market? Do they have the relationship built with local banks? Considering there "experiment" with mobile payments in Canada, I highly doubt that they have what is needed to serve such a big market!
    12-02-16 07:51 PM
  10. Loc22's Avatar
    How can BBM Money make headway in India? What's the market penetration of BBM there? What's the brand perception? Does Blackberry even have any experience or infrastructure to serve such a market? Do they have the relationship built with local banks? Considering there "experiment" with mobile payments in Canada, I highly doubt that they have what is needed to serve such a big market!
    What's your point? Just stop trolling.
    12-03-16 12:36 AM
  11. itsyaboy's Avatar
    What's your point? Just stop trolling.
    These are all relevant questions for BBM Money to be successful..

    Posted via CB10
    David Tyler likes this.
    12-03-16 06:20 AM
  12. itsyaboy's Avatar
    You are right, they would need to work with banks. BBM money has been around for years what have they been up to?

    In Malaysia the banks has been developing mobile payments using SMS for the last few years. Have they looked into this market yet?

    Why would you say it is worthless? I think it has huge potential especially when developed properly together with BBM Channels, shopping, games and many more services on the BBM platform.
    Without banks, BBM Money isn't a real currency. It would be more like airmiles or bonus points. If you can send distant family some money through BBM Money, but the recipient is unable to get cash for it or use it for other payments, it is worthless. That is what I meant. So, BBM Money would need to be accepted by banks before shop owners or service providers will actually accept it as real money...

    Posted via CB10
    12-03-16 06:23 AM
  13. Jayasheelan's Avatar
    What's your point? Just stop trolling.
    There is a service called 'Hot Remit' in BBM, specifically developed for the Indian market. It works more like Paytm.

    So firstly, are you aware of that kinda service...??
    Secondly, even if you were aware of it, I bet you wouldn't use it.

    Try it out to find out why...!!

    Posted via CB10
    12-07-16 10:58 AM
  14. bobshine's Avatar
    What's your point? Just stop trolling.
    Trolling? I am bringing up relevant points and I am sure that anyone with minimal experience in business will agree with me.

    Things just doesn't magically happen because you want them to happen! Before spending millions, need a good market analysis before and it doesn't look good for BBM Money
    David Tyler likes this.
    12-07-16 02:15 PM
  15. bobshine's Avatar
    Without banks, BBM Money isn't a real currency. It would be more like airmiles or bonus points. If you can send distant family some money through BBM Money, but the recipient is unable to get cash for it or use it for other payments, it is worthless. That is what I meant. So, BBM Money would need to be accepted by banks before shop owners or service providers will actually accept it as real money...

    Posted via CB10
    Great point. So for BBM Money to work, they need to have good standing relationships with banks... which unless I am wrong, they have none.

    Mastercard, Visa or any local market intermediary has much more chance of offering such a payment system then BBM Money
    12-07-16 02:17 PM
  16. Loc22's Avatar
    Great point. So for BBM Money to work, they need to have good standing relationships with banks... which unless I am wrong, they have none.

    Mastercard, Visa or any local market intermediary has much more chance of offering such a payment system then BBM Money
    Basically nothing will happen unless someone, somewhere, somehow take a first step. They way you always post on this forum is like it must already be like that or it's a waste of time.

    Rome was not built in a day and I guess you didn't turn 30 years old in a day too. If you didn't go to school we wouldn't have been having this conversation.

    Please read my whole posting first. It's not only India I'm talking about. There are many parts of the world where there remains a large population of of the unbanked. This is especially true in places like India, and ASEAN, China and many other developing nations around the world. This is merely the tip of the iceberg.

    Why don't they start in Indonesia first and cross to its neighbours like Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand. There are huge movements of workers across these borders all the time and money needs to flow through.

    I have to say that they do need to be able to look at the audit trail as well so as to prevent terrorist funding as well. I think there is huge potential in this service. I'm sure that these services will also bring with it additional subscribers too.
    12-08-16 07:25 PM
  17. itsyaboy's Avatar
    But can you maybe clarify your proposal how this would work in practice? You still don't answer relevant questions. I mean, if it could work, why not? I am not opposed to it. But just stating BBM Money is good without any further explanation is not very helpful.



    Posted via CB10
    David Tyler likes this.
    12-09-16 01:08 AM
  18. Loc22's Avatar
    But can you maybe clarify your proposal how this would work in practice? You still don't answer relevant questions. I mean, if it could work, why not? I am not opposed to it. But just stating BBM Money is good without any further explanation is not very helpful.



    Posted via CB10
    Well basically in a way you are correct that banks plays an important factor in getting this to work. However with a little bit of creativity, BBM can also pull better resources together to make this work too.

    My idea is this, however it will need to be adapted according to the local laws and customs as well.

    Firstly BBM money cannot work unless a bank is involved the simple reason is so that physical cash must somehow be able to be withdrawn or nobody will trust it. So BBM must work with the banks for those customers who has a bank account.

    I also mentioned that BBM can help reach the unbanked population who has a smartphone. How can this be done will have to adapt to local laws and customs.

    One suggestion is to work with banks and help them open bank accounts for these population and allow them to access their accounts via BBM and link it to BBM money. The technology of it I'm sure can be achieved it only depends on how much money the parties involved wants to make in order to launch this. They will then tell you how complex the program or the system will be. The thing with banks especially in South East Asia they are always over priced.

    Alternatively BBM can also work with the network providers who will be the middle man. Meaning the accounts where the BBM money is kept in is the actual account the user has with the network provider. The money inside can be used to pay for the telephone bills, any other purchases via BBM checkout or be transferred to a local bank account for debt settlement.

    They should also be able to transfer money from one user to another. In this way it will be easier to reach the unbanked. In some countries this might be achieved by just opening a trust account where all the money received from BBM money is kept until it is dispensed by the account holder or alternatively they may be required to work closely with a bank with an account number.

    I have proposed something similar to this to a network provider about 12 years ago and it was well received but I was working with a credit card company at that time so the situation is different as BBM money. It did not take off not because of regulatory approval or technical requirements, however it was stopped due to company politics in the credit card company and my team did not have the political might to push it through.
    12-09-16 09:06 AM
  19. app_Developer's Avatar
    So what value does BBM itself add to this?

    In Indonesia, BBM brings 60M people. That's the big value because the #1 rule of payment methods is that you must have a large number of consumers and businesses using that payment method. So you must be able to bring users, which BBM can do in Indonesia.

    But where else can BBM bring users? And if not users, what other advantages can BBM bring over FB messenger or WhatsApp?
    12-09-16 12:11 PM
  20. bobshine's Avatar
    Well basically in a way you are correct that banks plays an important factor in getting this to work. However with a little bit of creativity, BBM can also pull better resources together to make this work too.

    My idea is this, however it will need to be adapted according to the local laws and customs as well.

    Firstly BBM money cannot work unless a bank is involved the simple reason is so that physical cash must somehow be able to be withdrawn or nobody will trust it. So BBM must work with the banks for those customers who has a bank account.

    I also mentioned that BBM can help reach the unbanked population who has a smartphone. How can this be done will have to adapt to local laws and customs.

    One suggestion is to work with banks and help them open bank accounts for these population and allow them to access their accounts via BBM and link it to BBM money. The technology of it I'm sure can be achieved it only depends on how much money the parties involved wants to make in order to launch this. They will then tell you how complex the program or the system will be. The thing with banks especially in South East Asia they are always over priced.

    Alternatively BBM can also work with the network providers who will be the middle man. Meaning the accounts where the BBM money is kept in is the actual account the user has with the network provider. The money inside can be used to pay for the telephone bills, any other purchases via BBM checkout or be transferred to a local bank account for debt settlement.

    They should also be able to transfer money from one user to another. In this way it will be easier to reach the unbanked. In some countries this might be achieved by just opening a trust account where all the money received from BBM money is kept until it is dispensed by the account holder or alternatively they may be required to work closely with a bank with an account number.

    I have proposed something similar to this to a network provider about 12 years ago and it was well received but I was working with a credit card company at that time so the situation is different as BBM money. It did not take off not because of regulatory approval or technical requirements, however it was stopped due to company politics in the credit card company and my team did not have the political might to push it through.
    Ok but again, what competitive advantage does BBM Money have over Mastercard/Visa debit and credit? They already have an infrastructure in place and can do all what you are mentioning... not mentioning the fact that they already have the relationship with local banks. And they can also accept deposits without bank account... all things that BBM Money is lacking.

    And it's not like BBM has millions to throw out to test market again... for the second time... cause they already tried launching a payment system in Asia which failed.

    I am not being negative, I am being realistic. They better concentrate their ressources on markets that has potential and that aren't saturated... where they already have some sort of competitive advantage, BB Secure is a good start. No a micro payment system that pays 0.01% for average transaction size of 1$!

    Also... merchants pay 3 to 5% to mastercard and visa... why would they pay that to BBM?
    Last edited by bobshine; 12-09-16 at 02:50 PM.
    David Tyler likes this.
    12-09-16 02:35 PM
  21. Loc22's Avatar
    Ok but again, what competitive advantage does BBM Money have over Mastercard/Visa debit and credit? They already have an infrastructure in place and can do all what you are mentioning... not mentioning the fact that they already have the relationship with local banks. And they can also accept deposits without bank account... all things that BBM Money is lacking.

    And it's not like BBM has millions to throw out to test market again... for the second time... cause they already tried launching a payment system in Asia which failed.

    I am not being negative, I am being realistic. They better concentrate their ressources on markets that has potential and that aren't saturated... where they already have some sort of competitive advantage, BB Secure is a good start. No a micro payment system that pays 0.01% for average transaction size of 1$!

    Also... merchants pay 3 to 5% to mastercard and visa... why would they pay that to BBM?
    That's where you don't see what I see.

    BBM relies on word of mouth marketing which is more effective than what banks rely on. For the banks they require to have a physical presence whereas BBM do not need that and for them to withdraw their physical cash they can use the ATM machines or just go over the counter at the banks or the telco's outlets.

    Word of mouth marketing is much cheaper than conventional marketing. One simple example is that if we go out to eat together and you paid the bill first so I can just ask to transfer money to your BBM money or even PayPal in certain markets and people might consider that. When they download BBM and see the mirage of other services that they can use they might consider using it long term as it is more convenient to make bill payments, shopping and so on. It would be a good idea if I can buy a present for my girlfriend and have it delivered to her directly from my BBM right?

    You are mislead to believe that visa and Mastercard charge 3 - 5% for a transaction the typical charge for a visa or mastercard transaction is between 1.25% - 1.6% that luxury of 2 to 5 % has been depleted at leat 10 years ago. However if it is on a BBM money they can go to 1% and it will be a cost saving for merchants. BBM money doesn't have any interchange fees to deal with unless of course they made silly deals like how they used to make for their banking apps then nobody in this world can save them.
    12-09-16 09:33 PM
  22. valer466's Avatar
    lol nobody uses bbm in India or across the world except Indonesia, Nigeria.
    12-12-16 08:55 AM
  23. Loc22's Avatar
    lol nobody uses bbm in India or across the world except Indonesia, Nigeria.
    Not sure what the figures are but there seem to be a lot of demand from India. So many threads for people looking for friends to connect in India.
    12-12-16 12:59 PM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    BBM relies on word of mouth marketing which is more effective than what banks rely on. For the banks they require to have a physical presence whereas BBM do not need that and for them to withdraw their physical cash they can use the ATM machines or just go over the counter at the banks or the telco's outlets.
    Did you just say that BBM doesn't require physical presence, but their customers can just use our ATM's instead? Why would banks allow that?

    Word of mouth marketing is much cheaper than conventional marketing. One simple example is that if we go out to eat together and you paid the bill first so I can just ask to transfer money to your BBM money or even PayPal in certain markets and people might consider that. When they download BBM and see the mirage of other services that they can use they might consider using it long term as it is more convenient to make bill payments, shopping and so on. It would be a good idea if I can buy a present for my girlfriend and have it delivered to her directly from my BBM right?
    For your restaurant example to work, both parties would have to be on BBM. Outside of Indonesia, how would that work? Isn't it much more likely that one or both parties are using PayTM or PayPal already? If not, it's it at least likely they are using WhatsApp or FB?

    Why would both parties want to install BBM?

    You are mislead to believe that visa and Mastercard charge 3 - 5% for a transaction the typical charge for a visa or mastercard transaction is between 1.25% - 1.6% that luxury of 2 to 5 % has been depleted at leat 10 years ago. However if it is on a BBM money they can go to 1% and it will be a cost saving for merchants. BBM money doesn't have any interchange fees to deal with unless of course they made silly deals like how they used to make for their banking apps then nobody in this world can save them.
    Are you saying BBM will charge 1% and not pass any of that to the banks? Or are you saying BBM will pass all of it to the banks?
    Uzi likes this.
    12-12-16 10:22 PM
  25. itsyaboy's Avatar
    Well basically in a way you are correct that banks plays an important factor in getting this to work. However with a little bit of creativity, BBM can also pull better resources together to make this work too.

    My idea is this, however it will need to be adapted according to the local laws and customs as well.

    Firstly BBM money cannot work unless a bank is involved the simple reason is so that physical cash must somehow be able to be withdrawn or nobody will trust it. So BBM must work with the banks for those customers who has a bank account.

    I also mentioned that BBM can help reach the unbanked population who has a smartphone. How can this be done will have to adapt to local laws and customs.

    One suggestion is to work with banks and help them open bank accounts for these population and allow them to access their accounts via BBM and link it to BBM money. The technology of it I'm sure can be achieved it only depends on how much money the parties involved wants to make in order to launch this. They will then tell you how complex the program or the system will be. The thing with banks especially in South East Asia they are always over priced.

    Alternatively BBM can also work with the network providers who will be the middle man. Meaning the accounts where the BBM money is kept in is the actual account the user has with the network provider. The money inside can be used to pay for the telephone bills, any other purchases via BBM checkout or be transferred to a local bank account for debt settlement.

    They should also be able to transfer money from one user to another. In this way it will be easier to reach the unbanked. In some countries this might be achieved by just opening a trust account where all the money received from BBM money is kept until it is dispensed by the account holder or alternatively they may be required to work closely with a bank with an account number.

    I have proposed something similar to this to a network provider about 12 years ago and it was well received but I was working with a credit card company at that time so the situation is different as BBM money. It did not take off not because of regulatory approval or technical requirements, however it was stopped due to company politics in the credit card company and my team did not have the political might to push it through.
    BlackBerry has discussed BBM Money with the network providers before, but they were unable to convince them. Hence, you only see BBM Money in the Indonesian market. So while this would theoretically be a good idea, I don't see it happening any time soon. Network providers want all the fees themselves, they don't want to share it with BlackBerry.

    I can only see it working if banks would opt for this collectively, while at the same time BBM would grow in numbers. Unfortunately, I don't think either of those things is going become truth one day.

    Posted via CB10
    12-13-16 01:20 AM
32 12

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