Nokia Experts on BlackBerry - Round Robin

[palmsolo]

This is my first year participating with the Smartphone Round Robin and I am honored to be a part of the Smartphone Experts group. This week Nokia Experts (that's me) is taking a look at the almighty BlackBerry platform and to kick things off and help me understand the BlackBerry platform I am starting this thread and plan to participate in the discussion here on CrackBerry.com.

I have some familiarity with the BlackBerry platform and some devices, but this is a platform I use the least due to my need to swap my SIM between multiple Nokia devices and I can't have it provisioned for BlackBerry service.

Here are a few questions I have for you BlackBerry owners to kick off the discussion:

1. Like Nokia, RIM has been around for many years. Nokia is the worldwide market leader, but does not do well in North America while RIM has an increasing market share here. What do you think this can be attributed to?
2. I've played a bit with Kevin's Storm 2 and am wondering if you all think RIM will continue to make touchscreen BlackBerry devices? It seems to me that QWERTY keyboard devices are the heart and soul of RIM and the touchscreen seems a bit out of character.
3. What BlackBerry feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your BlackBerry with a Nokia smartphone?
4. Like Nokia, RIM's UI is dated. Do you think RIM needs to modernize it or are your perfectly happy and familiar with what you have now?
5. Have you seen the Nokia E71 or E72 with front facing QWERTY like a typical BlackBerry? What differentiates a BlackBerry from these devices?

....there's plenty more to talk about, so don't feel limited by the above. Remember, every day you make a post in this thread for the next week, you'll be automatically entered to win a BlackBerry device from CrackBerry.com! More details at www.smartphoneroundrobin.com

[Element1924]

Just watched you Nokia guy's get acquainted with the amazing 9700. Who knows, by the end of the week, you might secretly be carrying one around!

1. RIM's tight integration with many of the larger business' in the US.
2. Yes. If we are lucky, they will make a touchscreen/QWERTY and the world will change forever!
3. I love me some BBM!
4. The UI is fine. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the browser.
5. There's just something about typing on a RIM keyboard that nobody else can match.

[cafe_civet]

1. Nokia hasn't done as well here because Americans are primarily motivated to buy phones by carrier subsidies while Nokia has distributed most of their high end phones (N series) like specialty electronics. I think RIM has been making targeted marketing efforts to expand internationally. Much of this has been motivated by the economic upturn, see recent introduction in China.

2. I think the QWERTY will continue to stick around because of demand by email-centric business users. However, rumors of a combo device (Magnum) have a lot of Blackberry fanboys, including myself, really excited. The Storm isn't for me, but it does meet a market need.

3. Shortcuts. It makes the Blackberry incredibly efficient. I highly recommend checking out ShortcutMe. It's like shortcuts on steroids. This is my favorite Blackberry app, and a free trial is available. Review: ShortcutMe for BlackBerry Smartphones | CrackBerry.com

4. RIM is capable of keeping up by building functionality to their existing UI as highlighted by the recent developers conference. Some key issues remain, the primary one being the current limitations of application memory. This needs to be addressed within a year in order for RIM to remain relevant, especially to non-business users.

5. I have played with it and two things stood out to me. I don't like the D pad, and the keys felt too flat. The keys on a BB seem more separated from each other while the Nokia's seemed to be arranged in rows with less differentiation vertically. I did really like how the phone felt in my hand though. Nokia has better cameras than RIM, not even close.

[Erkenntnis]

1. I honestly do not know. A desire to use homegrown solutions could be part of the reason, obviously, while another reason could be that Nokia has spread out its efforts with regard to its products (i.e., making dumbphones as well as smartphones), and this has led to less appealing products for the business user.

2. I think BlackBerries are most distinctively about the typing experience, and the typing experience can be realized in multiple ways. The physical QWERTY keyboard is the main way, but not the only way. Software keyboards have benefits as well. Not all of the ways will appeal to everyone, but one has to admit that there are benefits to lacking a physical keyboard - the increased screen real estate being only the most obvious.

3. The keyboard, its design and all of its shortcuts, no question about it. This is not to claim that Nokia doesn't make good keyboards, because I just have never used a Nokia device. But I have come to really love my Tour's keyboard. I have numerous problems with the rest of the device, but the keyboard is fantastic. RIM excels in designing a great typing experience.

4. I don't have too many complaints about the user interface. I feel that the stuff under the hood of the device needs to be fixed instead. In particular, I think that support for third-party apps needs to be improved. Many features of the BlackBerry OS, outside the core functionality of the device, feel like tacked-on additions, and are unstable. My Tour, for example, has a nasty problem where it bricks itself upon restarting after installing third-party apps. Obviously, a capable BlackBerry user can fix the problem by reinstalling the OS, and I have learned how to do it. But even if I back up regularly, I lose at least some data, not to mention time spent restoring the phone and reinstalling all the deleted apps. In my view, this is an inexcusable error on RIM's part, and a deal-breaker with future BlackBerries. I have no desire to use a device where simply installing an app can result in a nuked phone. I know that problems happen, but this has happened to me several times now and is clearly the result of a flawed product. By contrast, third-party apps are part of the core functionality of the iPhone and iPod Touch, and I have never had a problem at all with them in this way. My interim solution is to install as few third-party apps as possible; my long-term solution is to not use a BlackBerry.

5. Never used any Nokia phone at all. Sorry, can't answer this one!

[mantheron]

Originally Posted by palmsolo

1. Like Nokia, RIM has been around for many years. Nokia is the worldwide market leader, but does not do well in North America while RIM has an increasing market share here. What do you think this can be attributed to?

I think the big thing here is that RIM is based out of North America and Nokia is based out of Europe. I think the biggest reason is that I haven't noticed Nokia making a concerted effort to grow here, while RIM seems to be expending efforts to reach into other markets.

Originally Posted by palmsolo

2. I've played a bit with Kevin's Storm 2 and am wondering if you all think RIM will continue to make touchscreen BlackBerry devices? It seems to me that QWERTY keyboard devices are the heart and soul of RIM and the touchscreen seems a bit out of character.

Touchscreen devices are (I think) where the consumer market is going. It would be foolish for them to ignore this growing market segment.

Originally Posted by palmsolo

3. What BlackBerry feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your BlackBerry with a Nokia smartphone?

I enjoy Blackberry Messenger, but I'm sure I could live without it. If Nokia doesn't support push messaging, I would miss that for sure. Beyond that, it would probably just be a matter of finding appropriate replacement apps. Again, I'm not extremely familiar with many Nokia devices, but you can feel free to send me one to try out.

Originally Posted by palmsolo

4. Like Nokia, RIM's UI is dated. Do you think RIM needs to modernize it or are your perfectly happy and familiar with what you have now?

The UI absolutly needs to be updated. There isn't any way to get around that fact. I think OS 5.0 makes some good steps toward that, however, it's not there yet.

Originally Posted by palmsolo

5. Have you seen the Nokia E71 or E72 with front facing QWERTY like a typical BlackBerry? What differentiates a BlackBerry from these devices?

The apps, opperating system, and image I think, but without much exposure to the Nokia ecosystem, it's hard for me to say.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Erkenntnis]

I forgot one thing, which should be part of my answer to question 4. The BlackBerry web browser is awful, and also needs to be fixed. They are working on it, though, but it can't come soon enough.

[elvin1983]

Originally Posted by palmsolo

Here are a few questions I have for you BlackBerry owners to kick off the discussion:

1. Like Nokia, RIM has been around for many years. Nokia is the worldwide market leader, but does not do well in North America while RIM has an increasing market share here. What do you think this can be attributed to?
2. I've played a bit with Kevin's Storm 2 and am wondering if you all think RIM will continue to make touchscreen BlackBerry devices? It seems to me that QWERTY keyboard devices are the heart and soul of RIM and the touchscreen seems a bit out of character.
3. What BlackBerry feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your BlackBerry with a Nokia smartphone?
4. Like Nokia, RIM's UI is dated. Do you think RIM needs to modernize it or are your perfectly happy and familiar with what you have now?
5. Have you seen the Nokia E71 or E72 with front facing QWERTY like a typical BlackBerry? What differentiates a BlackBerry from these devices?

1. I'm not really sure, I would attribute it to the fact that Nokia hasn't been really known for their smartphones in the U.S. IMO. I just remember back in the day, EVERYONE had the original, candybar Nokia phone, and while it was a huge seller, and the phone was reliable as ****, I think that's what people think of when they hear the name Nokia, and that's what's killing their smartphone sales, plus the lack of advertising.

2. I think they'll continue making one as long as there's a market for it. Everything's changing over to touchscreen it seems, and if RIM were to bow out of that end of the market, I think it would really hurt them in the long run. Their QWERTY devices are their bread and butter, but alot of people want a flashy touchscreen too! I'm not so big on the touchscreen and the QWERTY, reminds me of a Treo or something...

3. The OS integration (including e-mail). Just the way that things all work together, including 3rd party apps. Without the push e-mail, the Facebook app would be useless. I downloaded the Dictionary.com app, and now I can highlight words in an e-mail, and in the menu I can click define to have that app pull up and define it for me! I can call numbers from the Google Maps app, everything just works so well together, it's a very efficient platform. And the multitasking is amazing, very simple to understand and use.

4. I don't necessarily think that they need to add a bunch of flash and stuff to the OS. Take the WebOS on the Pre for instance, I don't care about swiping the "cards" off the screen to close out an app, I don't need all that. I think that alot of the upgrades coming with OS 5.0 answer alot of the major issues that folks have with the OS (threaded messaging being the one that stands out to me).
I just think alot of people see the iPhone OS and how nice and flashy it is, and they see RIM's OS and they're disapointed cuz it's not as pretty... I'm more than satasfied.

5. The keyboard and the trackball/trackpad. It's no secret that BlackBerries have some of the best keyboard's out on the market, and I don't think that the keyboard on the e71x (the one I'm most familiar with) can hold a candle to it. There's no curve to the keyboard, and the keys just don't feel right IMO. Also, I don't think that I could go from a device that has trackball navigation to one with a directional pad. Once you get used to the ball/pad, having to press a d-pad would just feel so inefficinent... Just my opinion!

Hope that you enjoy your time with a BlackBerry. My buddy has an e71x that he LOVES. I do like the fact that it's as thin as it is, that's pretty nice! Enjoy!

[elvin1983]

Originally Posted by Erkenntnis

I forgot one thing, which should be part of my answer to question 4. The BlackBerry web browser is awful, and also needs to be fixed. They are working on it, though, but it can't come soon enough.

I also second this...

In response to your comment on bricking your Tour whenever you load a new app, that's not a common issue, and it's not a reflection of all BlackBerries, your must have some sort of defect in the hardware, or the OS of your device that's causing that, because I've never bricked my Tour, and I've loaded different 3rd party apps on it from the app world, and OTA from other sources. You may want to look into making a claim on it and getting a new one, but like I said, that's not a common problem, and it's not something that is related to lack of refinement of the RIM OS, looks like a bug that would be specific to your handset, otherwise we'd be hearing complaints from all over!

[soccernamlak]

1. Like Nokia, RIM has been around for many years. Nokia is the worldwide market leader, but does not do well in North America while RIM has an increasing market share here. What do you think this can be attributed to?

Availability of good phones at a good price. Nokia use to be huge back in the 90s, but there was a massive shift towards flip phones and eventually qwerty's. They just weren't marketed enough by cell phone companies nor did Nokia ever have effective marketing strategies that actually made one go out to by a Nokia.

2. I've played a bit with Kevin's Storm 2 and am wondering if you all think RIM will continue to make touchscreen BlackBerry devices? It seems to me that QWERTY keyboard devices are the heart and soul of RIM and the touchscreen seems a bit out of character.

I think they'll continue making them as they provide options to consumers who want a touchscreen phone with RIM's OS and features. It's a consumer niche like the Pearl. Most power users are going to use the keyboard, but some want the other form factors. Plus, touch screen is all the rage right now, so to not get in the business at some level would be missing out in a sense.

3. What BlackBerry feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your BlackBerry with a Nokia smartphone?

BIS and BBM. Hands-down.

4. Like Nokia, RIM's UI is dated. Do you think RIM needs to modernize it or are your perfectly happy and familiar with what you have now?

I mean, Blackberry OS is efficient, no doubt, but it does need an overhaul in my opinion.

5. Have you seen the Nokia E71 or E72 with front facing QWERTY like a typical BlackBerry? What differentiates a BlackBerry from these devices?

Personally I like my Curve's keyboard better and of course the OS with BBM/email/App Word, etc. I guess the difference is going to be more software related than hardware to be honest. But the E71x is a good phone, though. No complaints here.

[HUFFDADDY1982]

I like BBM quite a bit and would miss it if I switched devices but the trackball and the phones ability to multitask and run multiple apps at the same time are the biggest benefits for me.

[the one and only M]

2. RIM should consider making a touchscreen Blackberry without surepress.
4. I have no problem with the UI. I just want a better browser.

[djitch]

Welcome aboard!
and congrats on this being your first time here! I have to tell you, I am a huge blackberry addict! I have been using blackberry for a number of years now. However I am just a flat out cell phone fanatic. I am always impressed with the new phones and technology that is coming out! I said im a blackberry fanatic but that doesnt mean I am a die hard user... if i ever come to the conclusion that a different phone is going to work better for me then I have no reason to not switch!

to answer your first question, I think that they are the world leaders in this category simply based on the fact that it is a household name "nokia". They have been around with amny other devices for as long as I can recall.

Second, I had a storm and honestly I was not that big a fan of it... I mean its a seet little device but i had to go back to my normal full qwerty blackberry 9700 which is an amazing device! I do think that RIM will continue to make them based on the fact that they need something or some kind of device that will be able to compete with the other touch screen phones out there! The storm 2 has definitley done a great job implementing alot of the features that the original didnt have. So as long as RIM keeps up the quality devices that have recently been launched then they will have no problem cornering the market in the smartphone genre!.

Third, If someone replaced my BB with a Nokia, I would say the feature that I would miss the most would be the optical tracjpad that is on my 9700 right now. It is a fantastic feature and I dont ever want to go back to a trackball. software or application wise I would have to say the simplicity of the blackberry app world. And of course I would miss going to Crackberry.com everysingle day!

Fourth I feel as if if it isnt broke dont fix it!!! however there are a few things that could potentially use updated!

alstly I have seen those new Nokia devices... and they are very similar to a blackberry setup however in my opinion, if you are looking for a candybar style phone with a full qwerty keyboard then why wouldnt you go with the company that has seemed to get it right for so many years. each smart phone company has its own style of phone that they are known for.. so stick to it and people will buy it!

thanks and havea great day!

andy

[LuluGirl896]

I have had a Nokia E71 briefly and ended up returning it (this was prior to my WM to Blackberry conversion). I also received a review E75 earlier this summer for 2 weeks. The combination of the UI and low-res screen were visually offputting. And then there were so many variables in signed vs unsigned certificates that I couldn't properly grasp.
Finally, Blackberry is tightly tied to services I use- Flickr, Twitter, Facebook, video podcasts. It seems that Nokia is more integrated with overseas services that I personally don't use.

[dasupaman23]

Originally Posted by LuluGirl896

I have had a Nokia E71 briefly and ended up returning it (this was prior to my WM to Blackberry conversion). I also received a review E75 earlier this summer for 2 weeks. The combination of the UI and low-res screen were visually offputting. And then there were so many variables in signed vs unsigned certificates that I couldn't properly grasp.
Finally, Blackberry is tightly tied to services I use- Flickr, Twitter, Facebook, video podcasts. It seems that Nokia is more integrated with overseas services that I personally don't use.

I am actually doing the opposite. I am making the jump from BB to Nokia. I have an E75 on it's way. I have been using BB's since the 72xx devices. I've used almost ever model after that too. I think I just need to give the BB a break and try something new. I haven't used a s60 phone since the n91.

I am not into social networking much. With my job schedule I find myself using the data capabilities of the BB less and less so for me, Nokia seems to have the solution. I am looking for a smartphone with features but don't require a $30 data plan. I also like that it (E75) "looks" like a normal phone but has the features I want.

[BerryGuy25]

Originally Posted by palmsolo

1. Like Nokia, RIM has been around for many years. Nokia is the worldwide market leader, but does not do well in North America while RIM has an increasing market share here. What do you think this can be attributed to?

I think the main reason is the ties in the business marketplace. I myself use to have a simple phone like a motorola and only got introduced to Blackberry devices once I started to work in a office job, since then, I've had a Blackberry ever since. With certain industries making it a "standard" to only use Blackberry devices, it put the phone in a different light too. Also, the second reason I would say is the "status" of having a Blackberry which has been indirectly been pushed by the media/entertainment industry which has influenced the regular consumer who may not be in business to fully utilize the capabilities of a Blackberry device, that they need that device too.

As someone a couple posts before me said, Nokia was big in the 90's, I remember tons of people had those phones but along came the 21st century and here we are today.

Originally Posted by palmsolo

2. I've played a bit with Kevin's Storm 2 and am wondering if you all think RIM will continue to make touchscreen BlackBerry devices? It seems to me that QWERTY keyboard devices are the heart and soul of RIM and the touchscreen seems a bit out of character.

I agree with you here. When people think about Blackberry devices, they think full QWERTY keyboard. Most people don't seem to know Blackberry has a touchscreen device unless they see someone else with it. I think they will continue to make touchscreen Blackberry devices but they need to ditch the surepress technology. I think RIM was trying to be unique to create a pull to the device but it was a failed attempt. The technology is horrible. I think if then have a glass screen (capacitive touch I think?) and update their OS, it will do better.

Originally Posted by palmsolo

3. What BlackBerry feature do you think you'd miss the most if somebody replaced your BlackBerry with a Nokia smartphone?

Unfortunately, I have to say BBM. It has become a integral part of my communications. It's fast, it's reliable and always on, unlike my native Yahoo and Windows Live Messenger apps which can randomly disconnect at anytime but BBM is always connected. Plus it has solid group chatting and add on the newest BBM update to 5.0 which allows the creation of groups. It's really nice. Also with OS 5.0, it allows users to add people to BBM even if they don't have BBM. I would really miss BBM.

Originally Posted by palmsolo

4. Like Nokia, RIM's UI is dated. Do you think RIM needs to modernize it or are your perfectly happy and familiar with what you have now?

Although I am familiar with RIMs UI, I believe it's very dated. Updates are constantly released (along with leaks which I believe they leak on purpose to mass test OS's without backlash) and there isn't much of a change in my opinion. Even with the promise of OS 5.0 for all devices, I still think it's not enough and this comes back to the actual devices and their specs but that's a whole other story.

Originally Posted by palmsolo

5. Have you seen the Nokia E71 or E72 with front facing QWERTY like a typical BlackBerry? What differentiates a BlackBerry from these devices?

Yes, I have seen those phones. Just off visuals, of course the physical designs are different, I would have to say that more recent Blackberry devices look a lot more slick and stylish. Also, with the look of the UIs, RIMs UI looks much better in my opinion. Nokia's icons and such look so small although I'm not sure of the actually screen size.

Aside from that though, I can't say much more about the differences. My knowledge of Nokia devices is quite limited. I don't anything about their security, data management, etc.

Although, I am considering switching to a Nokia device, more specifically a Nokia 6700 Classic. Despite it's size and not sporting a full QWERTY keyboard, it's still considered a smartphone by Nokia as it handles emails, has a calender which you can put appointments in and has instant messaging capabilities. I am done with the over priced data plans that Blackberries carry and I've found that the Nokia device I look to aquire would only need a $5 data plan compared to my $40 data plan for my Blackberry. I don't know about anyone else but that's a huge difference in price. No longer caught up in the hype and status.

Just my 2 cents...