Blackberry 8900 UMA Support on T-Mobile USA with T-Mobile Germany phone

[ddw60611]

Hey, Everyone.

I think the title says it all (or at least most of it). I am interested in starting a thread to see if we can figure out whether UMA is possible on the T-Mobile Germany phones being used with T-Mobile USA service.

Before I begin, let me stipulate the following:

1. I know this has been discussed in a number of other threads. I have read them ALL. The reason I am starting this thread is that there is no single thread that deals with whether this is possible and how to do it with a German BB 8900 on T-Mo USA Service. At least not to the level of detail that I think we could get into.

2. I understand there is a possibility that T-Mo USA will release this phone and this could be a non-issue in the future. However... I have the phone now, I really need UMA now because of signal issues in my home office, and I don't want to re-buy it.

3. This is a fantastic phone even if I never get UMA working

Hopefully that weeds out all the "use the search button newbie" replies. Probably won't, but one can always hope...

Here is what I have come up with based on reading other threads on this issue, doing some experimenting, and actually talking to RIM about this issue.

But first, here is my operating assumption: Some BB8900 hardware on some carriers support some form of UMA: for instance Rogers in Canada. So it may be possible to make it work in the US. "May" being the operative word.

There are a number of potential road blocks to making this work in the US with T-Mo Germany Phone:

T-Mobile Germany doesn't seem to offer UMA service.
This is the first (and maybe the biggest) roadblock. Since they don't offer it, the menu option to turn it on or otherwise configure the option doesn't show up on my phone. I have seen a number of threads where people say "UMA doesn't work" however, I haven't been able to tell whether the option doesn't show up for UMA, or whether the options shows up to configure UMA, but they can never connect successfully.

The option showing up is only half the batttle
Even if UMA could be selected, there are other roadblocks. From what I can tell, the reason that UMA on a Non-US phone wouldn't be able to connect is a combination of root certificates and service books. Without the proper root certificate and trusted certificate, there would be no way for the phone to negotiate an IPSEC session T-Mo USA servers. That UMA conversation must happen over that IPSEC tunnel.

RIM tells me that there is an outside chance that T-Mo USA could push the proper service books out to me since the phone is technically T-Mobile (even if it is from Germany). However, before I try that I would like to make sure that there wouldn't be any other issues.

What RIM couldn't tell me was whether the UMA menu options were something that are part of the non-flashable firmware for the phone or part of the operating system.

What I have tried so far
- I tried updating to the latest Roger's software since the Rogers phones with Rogers service support UMA. Didn't work, of course. However, it didn't work in the same way that the T-Mo Germany OS didn't work: No option to configure UMA. Under Mobile Network Services, there only two options instead of the standard three.

- Updated the certificate stores with the root and the IPSEC certificate for T-Mobile USA. That part works fine.

Questions
My questions to anyone who has tried to configure a BB8900 to use UMA in the US are:

- Has anyone, with a phone with from anywhere (Rogers, T-Mo UK, T-Mo Germany) been able to get the option for UMA to show up?

- Does anyone know for a fact whether there are hardware differences between the Rogers 8900 and the T-Mo Germany 8900? My guess is that RIM didn't create two different hardware versions of the same phone.

- Does anyone know if the UMA options are burned into the firmware in a non-flashable partition (like the Vendor ID, for instance) or are they part of the operating system? Neither RIM or T-Mobile could tell me.

I am pretty sure that I can figure out the service book and IPSEC stuff if I can get to a point where the UMA options show up. Of course, it could be a catch 22 and maybe the options wont show up without the service books.

Enough rambling. Well, hopefully this gets the ball rolling. I definitely appreciate any input anybody has.

Thanks!

[ducati749]

wow, good post and research... i hope we can figure this one out!

[bmcclure937]

Great post... and no doubt you have searched and researched the topic!

I can only wish to have the Curve 8900 right now, must be nice... but back on topic.

This actually has nothing to do with the hardware in the device you own... as it will be the same for all of the carriers. The 8900 on TMo Germany and TMo USA and Rogers will be the same model, same hardware, etc.

The thing you may be lacking will be service books. Also, different versions of OS 4.6.xx will be available for each carrier.

Back to service books... check out these threads :

Link 1

Link 2

It details how to get a Bold working flawlessly on TMo USA. The process for the 8900 would be similar. You would need to find what service books are needed for UMA (Hotspot@Home) and get them onto your device.

Good luck. And post back with results/details/the works!

[jeffharris]

The short answer is "no."

The longer answer is, "nope."

It will not work. Apparantly, UMA is a feature hardcoded deep in the carrier OS. It is not user changeable, or configurable. And, since BlackBerries pride on not being hackable at the base core, I doubt there is any way to change that. The proof, is, like I tried as well, 4.6.1.94 Rogers have the UMA configuration if it si a Rogers device. Ours doesn't. And, upgrading the OS is about the only configurable thing we can do with the device.

You, like I (I have a T-Mo German 8900) must wait for a branded T-Mobile US device

I have checked the service books, and, they are identical to all the service books in my working UMA 8320. So, nothing is missing in the 8900.

Sorry, I want it as much as you - and I WILL have to buy a T-Mo US one when it arrives

And, PS - I had the same "possibility" thoughts as you, until I dug a little into it.

[bryanharig]

It isnt an OS or service book issue, it seems it is something in the firmware that cant be changed.

[ddw60611]

Originally Posted by jeffharris

The short answer is "no."

The longer answer is, "nope."

It will not work. Apparantly, UMA is a feature hardcoded deep in the carrier OS. It is not user changeable, or configurable. And, since BlackBerries pride on not being hackable at the base core, I doubt there is any way to change that. The proof, is, like I tried as well, 4.6.1.94 Rogers have the UMA configuration if it si a Rogers device. Ours doesn't. And, upgrading the OS is about the only configurable thing we can do with the device.

You, like I (I have a T-Mo German 8900) must wait for a branded T-Mobile US device

I have checked the service books, and, they are identical to all the service books in my working UMA 8320. So, nothing is missing in the 8900.

Sorry, I want it as much as you - and I WILL have to buy a T-Mo US one when it arrives

And, PS - I had the same "possibility" thoughts as you, until I dug a little into it.

Thanks for your response. It looks like you took a similar route to me and ended up at the same point. I also have an 8320. Since last night, I went as far as to copy the servicebooks from the 8320 to the 8900, update the certificate store with the T-Mo US root and trust cert, and chage the APN from tmobile.us to wap.voicestream.com (which improved browsing over edge quite a bit) to no avail. I did get an icon for installing handago and telenav (the only comercial GPS app that works with this phone) in the applications folder. That was neat.

I hate to give up, but I think you are correct.

To switch gears slightly here... This is a fantastic phone, but do you think it is worth buying a second time for just UMA?

Thanks again for everyone's input!

[fiddysheqel]

Hypothetically, wouldnt it be (maybe) possible for UMA to work on T-Mo US once T-Mo US releases their firmware once they get the 8900? I would assume then you would be able to put that firmware onto your current 8900 and have UMA working, which would mean only a month or so until it gets released.... or am I completely off the ball?

[bryanharig]

Originally Posted by fiddysheqel

Hypothetically, wouldnt it be (maybe) possible for UMA to work on T-Mo US once T-Mo US releases their firmware once they get the 8900? I would assume then you would be able to put that firmware onto your current 8900 and have UMA working, which would mean only a month or so until it gets released.... or am I completely off the ball?

The OS wont help. It has to be t-mobile branded. If anyone wants to try changing the vendor ID (using the leaked tools that are available online) I dont think anyone has tried that yet.

[jeffharris]

Originally Posted by ddw60611

To switch gears slightly here... This is a fantastic phone, but do you think it is worth buying a second time for just UMA?

Thanks again for everyone's input!

Well, considering that i travel up to 200,000 miles a year internationally, and make not only every hotel I go to a WiFi zone, and, many places I go have open WiFi (and also, I keep a battery operated 3g cellular WiFi zone in my pocket a lot [longer explanation]), having UMA on my normal cell number is a very convenient, and worthwhile issue for me.

And nothing says "I love you" more than giving someone your hand-me- down Blackberry

[Pete6]

I can't speak for T-Mobile devices but my SIM-free unlocked, from Carphone Warehouse 8900 connects to every wireless access point that I have been near in the few days I have owned it.

My own one is WPA-PSK and I have conected to the unsecured APin CPW. The neighbor has a WEP device and he gave me the KEY and that worked too.

I also stolpped in a car park by some shops and I picked up several there. One was unlocked and I connected.

I am not sure if T-Mobile have managed to lock up this phone but it may be that you need to have a working T-Mobile data plan forit to work.

Having a working WiFi was important to me and was one of the reasons I stumped up the full purchase price. I wanted a phone with no restrictions. Anyway it is deductible.

[jeffharris]

All 8900's work on WiFi. We aren't discussing that here. We are discussing UMA, which is the carriers' integrated VoIP service that works in conjunction with (and as) your current cellphone number.

[eburganjr]

For anyone that's good with "hacking/editing" BB's, would an edit in the Blackberry.alx or Vendor.xml file do anything to get UMA working?

[aristile]

Originally Posted by eburganjr

For anyone that's good with "hacking/editing" BB's, would an edit in the Blackberry.alx or Vendor.xml file do anything to get UMA working?

No, the UMA settings are part of the Firmware on the phone, which is flashed onto the phone and cannot be modified. This is similar to how it is not possible to change the splash screen of the carrier when the phone is restarted.

[kman65]

Originally Posted by aristile

No, the UMA settings are part of the Firmware on the phone, which is flashed onto the phone and cannot be modified. This is similar to how it is not possible to change the splash screen of the carrier when the phone is restarted.

OK, here is a question: is a workaround possible through Options>Security Options>VPN? That is the only place that UMA activity is at least visible on 8320 (not on an unlocked 8900). Maybe a VPN profile is what TMO flashes into the firmware? If that's the case, is it possible to add a VPN profile to the unlocked phone through security options and get access to UMA?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Honestly, I don't believe so, but I'm not quite sure and will have to check. I know that the 8900 from Rogers will work on T-Mobile USA's UMA.