[JRSCCivic98]

So, with the help of the below post from Optimus...

I believe the Storm 2 has a touch sensitive screen that is kinda like truepress except there is no feedback involved.

Simply tapping or touching something softly won't select it, but pressing a bit harder will.

I've been able to maybe put some pieces together on a speculation of how this new technology may work. Below is one of my posts in that thread...

Oh, that's a good one. So it doesn't press down, but rather "sense pressure". Now that's kinda pimp! It would solve the issue with the screen clicks we have now, but also allow for the OS features to stay in place, like hovering over a button or graphic to select it, but until you actually press with some pressure, it won't register. I kinda like that idea.

As we already know, Synaptics is the maker of the Storm Digitizer/Screen Input System. That being said, we also already know that Synaptics touchpads (regular ones on laptops) have the software ability to detect "how much" pressure is put on them. Couple this with the above post information and you can see how easy it would for RIM to implement such a design. The screen doesn't move, but pressues is sensed in different degrees on the screen and can possibly even be adjusted through screen settings for pressure sensativity. Now that's awesome, if it is this!!!


Please discuss intelligently.

[savioAMG]

I agree, this would be pretty cool, but what about when typing? IMO, it seems like this kind of technology would get it the way at times... What do you think?

[JRSCCivic98]

I agree that it would be a bit strange feeling at first to try and type like this, but if adjusted correctly (each person would modify the pressure setting under Screen/Keyboard to fit their preferences), it could work very well. Your brain would eventually adjust to pressing more to have letters register vs not. It's no different then resting your finger on a physical keyboard or even the current Storm screen. You simply don't apply enough pressue to register the press.

[Optimusv2]

I think the beauty is you would never accidentally press anything you don't want to just like on a pc keyboard.

It would probably take some getting use to on the Storm 2, but I think it can work.

Everyone here is capable of touching any single key on their keyboard without actually applying the pressure necessary to actually press it. As long as the differences in applied pressure is properly programmed this would work wonders on the Storm 2.

Even better is the fact that with this kind of technology a user still would never actually end up putting in as much energy as is currently required to press with SurePress on the first gen Storm.

For example, I just randomly open memopad, bring up the the portrait qwerty and mess around with applying different kinds of pressure and it's pretty obvious which touches wouldn't actually register the input of a letter and which ones would. This thing could really work. It feels good.

Maybe this kind of technology is exactly the reason why the 4 buttons that are on the front of the original Storm now appear to be apart of the touch interface on the Storm 2. Applying light pressure may not actually do anything to them, but perhaps a bit more pressure and they respond?

[ediggity]

Great observation JR, and ultimately you may be correct I may actually pass on the tour as more info comes out on this

[JRSCCivic98]

That's exactly what I'm thinking as well Optimus. I'm glad you brought up this idea and we could expand upon it. Now I'm really exited. Maybe I should wait though... I wouldn't want to be dissapointed if this isn't the case.

[rmccarty420]

I like the thought. When I heard they were getting rid of the sure press I wanted to cry yet no that I'm hearing this(if it is true) then that is just great.

[Morf32]

This actually does sound pretty cool. For those of you who are more familiar with the actual hardware this would entail... the screen would still be as hard as it is now, right? There wouldn't be any flexing in the actual screen, would there? That would be my only concern. I would love to get my hands on one of these now, and not have to wait.

[JRSCCivic98]

Correct, the screen would remain rigid. The pressure detection comes from the digitizer itself... I just don't know if it has that capability.... let see... (gone to dig up some info.)


Found something. From their capacitive screen whitepapers... Capacitive solutions such as Synaptics ClearTouch use a grid of conductive traces implemented on a clear substrate such as polyethylene terephthalate (PET) film or glass to accurately report one or more finger positions and relative pressure on a sensor.

[patches152]

you go, girl!

[Morf32]

Correct, the screen would remain rigid. The pressure detection comes from the digitizer itself... I just don't know if it has that capability.... let see... (gone to dig up some info.)

This could actually be very interesting. I think I could like that! I just know that I can't stand typing on the iPod Touch because there is no guarantee what you're selecting to type. Having to apply some pressure to the screen would make it MUCH better.

[Fabmaclover]

i tried at bestbuy some dvd touch screen for car that work like that .. i like the feedback you have when you press the screen.. i hope the storm 2 will be like that that willl make it different from the apple screen

[patches152]

so is it going to be a glass screen like we have now or more like the matte LCD squishy ones?

[Morf32]

Found something. From their capacitive screen whitepapers... Capacitive solutions such as Synaptics ClearTouch use a grid of conductive traces implemented on a clear substrate such as polyethylene terephthalate (PET) film or glass to accurately report one or more finger positions and relative pressure on a sensor.

Very nice. So that grid that you can see under the screen is capable of detecting pressure, too. Now... would we want the phone to give us some kind of feedback along with applying pressure-- such as a vibration? One of my friends has a Dare, and I'm not sure whether I like the vibration every time he touches the phone. Have any of you had an experience with haptic feedback before? Did you like it? Dislike it? Would it be necessary in this situation?

[JRSCCivic98]

I highly doubt they changed away from glass. If it can stand up to the pressure of SurePress, it'll be fine for TruePress. Besides, it looks the same as what we have now, even the dimentions remained the same (with the exception of incorporating the keys into the screen at the bottom). The screen realestate is most likely unchanged... this is what I get from the pics that were posted.

Very nice. So that grid that you can see under the screen is capable of detecting pressure, too. Now... would we want the phone to give us some kind of feedback along with applying pressure-- such as a vibration? One of my friends has a Dare, and I'm not sure whether I like the vibration every time he touches the phone. Have any of you had an experience with haptic feedback before? Did you like it? Dislike it? Would it be necessary in this situation?

I doubt they'd put in vibrate. They already have a click sound you can turn on in Screen/Keyboard. Why mess with power draining vibration with every press. Seems excessive. Besides, this is supposed to be a model that "polishes" the Storm design. So far, the weaknesses have been the SurePress (in certain conditions) and the flimsy buttons on the bottom. I think you'd agree both of those issues would be fixed if the speculations are correct on the Storm 2.

[patches152]

Very nice. So that grid that you can see under the screen is capable of detecting pressure, too. Now... would we want the phone to give us some kind of feedback along with applying pressure-- such as a vibration? One of my friends has a Dare, and I'm not sure whether I like the vibration every time he touches the phone. Have any of you had an experience with haptic feedback before? Did you like it? Dislike it? Would it be necessary in this situation?

it gets old really quick. good for "training wheels" but once you're good with the phone it gets annoying. maybe something like an audiable feedback, sort of like how the track ball had the "scrolling" noise...that would be nice.

[Roscopcoletrain]

Very interesting! Sounds promising!

[Morf32]

it gets old really quick. good for "training wheels" but once you're good with the phone it gets annoying. maybe something like an audiable feedback, sort of like how the track ball had the "scrolling" noise...that would be nice.

That's exactly what I was thinking-- that it would get very annoying, very quickly. But I don't know that audible feedback would be any better. Ha ha ha! I know the first thing I do when I get a new phone is to turn off the keypad noise. But maybe a "clicking" noise wouldn't be so bad... if it could be turned down or something. I don't know.

[patches152]

well, then again, the LG phones are world renowned for their "vibration strength". i always feel like my finger is gonna get ripped up or something if i get too close to a jagged edge or a gap on the phone...those things are dynamite!

...maybe that's why they're so popular

[JRSCCivic98]

well, then again, the LG phones are world renowned for their "vibration strength". i always feel like my finger is gonna get ripped up or something if i get too close to a jagged edge or a gap on the phone...those things are dynamite!

...maybe that's why they're so popular

Maybe...

[Morf32]

well, then again, the LG phones are world renowned for their "vibration strength". i always feel like my finger is gonna get ripped up or something if i get too close to a jagged edge or a gap on the phone...those things are dynamite!

...maybe that's why they're so popular

I don't need no stinking Dare...

Back on topic now...

[patches152]

simmer down now, ladies...

i would have to use the new screen to make a decision as to its efficency, but speculation is fun!

[nvious]

When the first Storm came out, I had a play with it and the clickable TS put me off - I'm glad I didn't get it, with all the issues being reported (In all fairness to RIM - Look at Apple - First iPhone, issues etc etc... Nokia: 5800 issues etc etc etc) - Point is:Nobody gets it right first time but you have to learn from previous mistakes!

Now back on topic:

I think having a "conventional" touchscreen (if it can be called that) would be ten times better as it would attract the users of normal ts phones who don't like the clickable screen (e.g. me) as well as original storm users if implemented correctly.

One thing I would say: RIM - LEARN FROM THE ORIGINAL STORM!

Haptic Feedback: I've read A LOT about this and I believe the 5800 offers it where everytime you press a key the phone vibrates - I've had the 5800 xpress-music and this annoyed me completely... then again if the screen is as rumoured in this thread, RIM would need to implement something to register a key press - this would set it apart from the iPhone and most TS phones out there. I would personally say haptic feedback would be a GREAT idea, but ONLY if they can implement a small un-annoying vibration which is like a short burst but not overly heavy (like LG thingy above) or heavily annoying like the 5800!

My 2 cents

[Morf32]

Hey, wow, yeah... let's just move this to the Lounge. WTF? I think we should get the Lounge subforum renamed to "Carpet"... because it's where things seem to be swiped under...

I think it was our "vibration talk"... sorry. I just noticed that you edited a post about the haptic feedback. I agree that vibration shouldn't be added to the press... I would be completely annoyed by it. I was just wondering how others felt about it. So far, I think that the Storm 2 will be much better than the first, as far as hardware is concerned. I'm really itchin' to get my hands on one.

EDIT: Although every other thread about SurePress vs. TruePress has remained in the main forum. Ugh.

[matrix2004]

you go, girl!

Civic's a girl?