[mipacho]

I was asked a very valid question by my pastor regarding the security of using the blackberry and I felt it would be most appropriate to ask here in these forums. My pastor asked if the Blackberry is secure for missionaries in dangerous areas/countries where they are monitored by the gov't

[jenaywins]

Um. What exactly are you asking? Secure as in reference to what exactly?

[Outrigger]

I think the OP is asking if these said hostile governments can monitor your blackberry transmissions.

[DJManos]

They work by RF and ALL RF is subject to interception and decryption.

[Bold1]

The only life threatening thing I can see is that they will most likely get mugged for it, and which countries exactly are they working in that have technology?

Same all over with these religious groups, especially in the US, you have to laugh at all the mugs who put money into these organisations with all their hype and fine living. I wonder if their followers know they are roughing it with state of the art technology, no need for it at all, get a cheap pay as you go

They never had it in the old days

[Reed McLay]

BlackBerry password security will insure the information on the device stays private. Unfortunatly, if obtained under duress, it opens everything to inspection.

Monitoring cell phone use is assumed, monitoring unencrypted messages is not far behind.

It has been assumed that encrypted messages are secure, but one Government now claims to be able to monitor those too. Nobody can be certain, I would not stake my or anybody else's life on it.

[rerickson]

My guess is that he's concerned the foreign governments will suspect he's a spy for carrying a fancy gizmo with camera -- not as unlikely as we'd like to think. Blackberries are common enough in business that I imagine they'd be ok, though you might want to think about whether to take one with a camera.

[sito]

The pastor can set his blackberry encryption to strongest setting to prevent hostile government from intercepting messages. Blackberry email can't be decrypt without RIM encryption key.

[stewdaddy]

The only life threatening thing I can see is that they will most likely get mugged for it, and which countries exactly are they working in that have technology?

Same all over with these religious groups, especially in the US, you have to laugh at all the mugs who put money into these organisations with all their hype and fine living. I wonder if their followers know they are roughing it with state of the art technology,

Sounds like somebody has an axe to grind with religious people.
I will pray for you.

To the actual question that was asked:
In some foreign countries Christianity for instance is illegal. Christians actually have to gather under the cover of darkness. In many of the 3rd world countries missionaries travel to, this is a "real" issue.

If any of you have watched the news over the last few years then you already know that in many parts of the middle east for instance, Christians are in real danger--just for being Christians.

If you have been a regular subscriber to this site over the last year you would also have read for instance that the Indian government didn't even want to allow RIM's devices into the marketplace unless they agreed to let them monitor all messages.

So, should a missionary in a foreign land have concerns about communications to his/her pastor, relatives, etc.?

Of course they should.

[Bold1]

So are we saying that this forum is aiding and abetting illegal activities in foreign jurisdictions, I hope not!

You may have beliefs, but publicly plotting how to evade and go against the laws of any country is a dangerous thing to do on an independent forum is it not?

[stewdaddy]

So are we saying that this forum is aiding and abetting illegal activities in foreign jurisdictions, I hope not!

You may have beliefs, but publicly plotting how to evade and go against the laws of any country is a dangerous thing to do on an independent forum is it not?

I would laugh but it's clear you're not kidding.

No one is "publicly plotting" anything. A man is going to another country to help others. He is not plotting to overthrow the government..... (I don't think). I doubt he is curious about his communications because he's planning to communicate with others involved in his evil plot.

He is probably concerned because depending on where he's going he could be in danger for believing in the wrong God.........or for believing in God at all.

It sounds to me like you're having a little trouble distinguishing the "good guys" from the "bad guys".

[prometheus]

So are we saying that this forum is aiding and abetting illegal activities in foreign jurisdictions, I hope not!

You may have beliefs, but publicly plotting how to evade and go against the laws of any country is a dangerous thing to do on an independent forum is it not?

Your response demonstrates a very thorough and complete understanding of a Christians responsibilities toward God and toward Human gov't authorities. Thank you for your incite.

I know the OP's concerns were mainly based their personal security in a land where Christian evagalism is illegal. If communication by either voice or email is monitored and considered against that country's laws - it would make the "lawbreaker" subject to penalty. That penalty is not to be taken lightly or flippantly dismissed. Many muslim countries (and China) do kill Christian evangalists.

This presents a dilemna for Christians wishing to preach in a counrty that openly forbids evangalism. One can only decide for themselves what is appropriate.

I don't want to be preachy or dogmatic. And, it's not my desire to offend anyone. I look at this as a philosophical and doctinal debate and let's remove any personal sensibilities from the discussion and not jump to any conclusions that someone is either a "Jesus freak" or somehow anti-Christian. This thread just opens up a discussion and exchange of ideas and no one is advocating any particular course of action, just expressing their own personal observations and opinions.

Here are my thoughts... In the book of Acts John and Peter were arrested for preaching about Jesus in Jerusalem. False charges were brought up against them that were advocating sedition. They were brought before the Jewish High court, the Sanhedrin. This was interesting as at that time the city of Jerusalem was under Roman occupation and Roman law. The Sanhedrin held no real authority to administer Roman law. The charges were false and the court was illegal. However, the apostles gave a fine sermon to the court that applies to this situation. They were ordered to "quit preaching about Jesus." They politely replied that "no" they wouldn't stop. They further stated, "we must obey God as ruler rather than men."

Later, The apostle Paul expounded on this idea in Romans chapter 13. He stated that goverments are placed in a position of authority by God and Christians are subject to all laws and rules of whatever government they are under. However, he sated that gov't authority is "relative" and always takes a back seat to God's laws.

As an example: recall Daniel. He was ordered by King Nebuchadnezzar to not pray to anyone but the king. He refused and continued praying to God. So, he followed all of the laws of the land until they conflicted with God's superior laws.

How does this relate to the issue at hand here? There is a dual responsibility of a Christian to be an obedient citizen and an obedient Christian. When that dual responsibity creates a conflict and one must choose loyaly - a true Christian will disobey a law of any government that would remain loyal to God's laws.

What laws? Well, Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:19, 20 to preach, convert and baptize as many people as possible. The gov't of (fill in the blank w/ your country of choice) makes it illegal to preach about Jesus. What should a Christian do? Only an individual can decide how far Christian obedience dictates civil disobedience. If gov't outlaws communication via wireless devices on certain topics and issues - fine, don't do it. But, that does not relieve you of the obligation to preach. Just do it in a different manner. Remember Jesus advice: "be cautious as serpents, yet innocent as doves." There's no reason to advertise your disregard for governmental regulations. Remember the example of Jesus - many times angry mobs tried to sieze him. What did he do? Did he holler and scream, "I have a right to do this!". No, he just blended into the crowd and quietly escaped so he could continue preaching. There's no reason to flaunt disregard for laws when one feels they viloate God's superior laws. Remember Gamaliel's response (one of the members of the Jewish high court in the first century) to John and Peter's activity in Jerusalem, (papraphrased) "if God is behind this, there's nothing we can do to stop it." So, a thorough preaching will be given worlwide with or without one's personal involvement. Jesus taught that at Matthew 24:14 "the good news will be preached worldwide before the conculsion of the present system of things." Jesus also stated that if he quit preaching that rocks would speak - the message will get out.

My conclusion... Follow all of the laws of the land up to the point where it violates your Christain conscience. And, rely on God to get the message out to everyone.

[stewdaddy]

I know the OP's concerns were mainly based their personal security in a land where Christian evagalism is illegal. If communication by either voice or email is monitored and considered against that country's laws - it would make the "lawbreaker" subject to penalty. That penalty is not to be taken lightly or flippantly dismissed. Many muslim countries (and China) do kill Christian evangalists.

This presents a dilemna for Christians wishing to preach in a counrty that openly forbids evangalism. One can only decide for themselves what is appropriate.

Your post is well put. I would mention a third situation as well.

Many of my friends and family have flown all over the world on mission trips. On a good number of these trips evangalism was strictly forbidden. The purpose was to improve the lives of people living in harsh conditions--not to preach. These were Christian trips, organized by Christians and carried out by people who love God and went on these trips out of prayerful dedication. They also understood that disobeying the law of the land (wrong though it might be) was not the purpose of their visit.

Postcards are still sent home. Emails (where possible) are still sent to loved ones and phone calls are made to family members. While these are not overt acts designed to convert people to Christianity and away from their government, simply saying to someone through voice or email: "God bless you" could still get you in the same trouble if the wrong people were listening or reading.

I gave the benefit of the doubt to the pastor refrerenced at the top of this thread.

[Bla1ze]

My opinion..leave politics and religion off the forums, you'll have more fun that way and not step on any toes while doing so..aside from that, you guys have gone well off the topic of answering the initial question and it has become posts about the intentions, beleifs and purposes this person may need to know such information..bring it back on track please.

[Bold1]

Well said, get rid of this conspiring thread and let's stick to what the forum is meant to be about. Religion is the cause of most troubles and wars in the World, we don't need any of that nonsense on here, live and let live I say.

[prometheus]

Well put stew... It's true that not all activity on foreign soil by a zealot is openly attempting conversion. It's the foreign gov't's definition of "illegal" that matters. For all you know simply possessing a bible is a beheading offense (seriously). So, why expose oneself to such a possibilty. Personally, I'd leave the berry (and maybe even the bible) at home and just rely on good old fashioned face-to-face conversations.

It was mentioned somewhere further back in the thread that technology wasn't used in the past and christianity spread just fine. And there's also this false impression that a missionary has to be poor. What did someone imply: something to the effect that charitable contributors would be shocked or upset to see their missionary they sent to XYZ country with an expensive phone. What a bunch of hogwash. If someone wants to go to some backwater to preach and they happen to have a fancy phone that doesn't imply the phone user is misappropriating charitable contributions. It just just means they love Jesus and their phone.

I just think it would be prudent to not draw undue attention to one's acitivity on foreign soil when there is open animosity to Christian evangalism. Transmitting religious messages via a blackberry just smacks of covert action and is definitely ammunition that authorities could use to prove your "illegal" activities. Call grandma and tell her you love her on a good old-fashioned pay-as-you-go plan. When communication with the home church is needed and would get you into hotwater with the locals, be smart about it and set up a secure communication channel before even venturing there in the first place.

[zukir02#CB]

The only life threatening thing I can see is that they will most likely get mugged for it, and which countries exactly are they working in that have technology?

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[prometheus]

If that was off-topic... I didn't mean for it to be. I'm really not trying to step on anyone's toes and be controversial.

I think it's an interesting subject.

Maybe the thread should be moved to a social site... I saw this thread thru "new posts" didn't really see it was under "help & discussion forums"

I agree that it's straying off subject and could miss the point of the original posters question.

I'll leave this area now and sorry if it got wierd for anyone.

[stewdaddy]

Bla1ze, if you look at most of my posts............I don't get off topic. A legit question was asked and instead of an answer the poster got a lecture on what rotten people religious people are and how they "deserve" what they get. I was simply trying to explain that the question had a lot of merrit and deserved a helpful answer.

Well said, get rid of this conspiring thread and let's stick to what the forum is meant to be about. Religion is the cause of most troubles and wars in the World, we don't need any of that nonsense on here, live and let live I say.

As for your above post Bold1.......YOU don't get to bring this back on track---YOU are the one who started it. And, as anybody can see by reading your quote..........you're STILL doing it!

You're welcome to your beliefs, but please don't expect to spew this stuff and then stand back like you had nothing to do with it.

[gregerator]

ALex1: since you don't accept PMs I have this for you:
Very nicely done job on your dissertation on Paul, Acts, and laws. You even hit some of my favorite points, specifically Gamaliel's quote. Great work!

[Bold1]

Here we go, exactly what the moderator was talking about, spreading or should I say 'spewing' out all this utter nonsense and creating yet another war.

Take your beliefs and nonsense elsewhere, you are now dragging in more poor vulnerable soles into your conspiracy.

That's it from me, goodnight

[Crackberrykills]

I was asked a very valid question by my pastor regarding the security of using the blackberry and I felt it would be most appropriate to ask here in these forums. My pastor asked if the Blackberry is secure for missionaries in dangerous areas/countries where they are monitored by the gov't

I would say a BB is safe, but I am not sure how safe. I would probably, if at all possible that is, just leave my BB home. I would not want to chance it.

[prometheus]

Here we go, exactly what the moderator was talking about, spreading or should I say 'spewing' out all this utter nonsense and creating yet another war.

Take your beliefs and nonsense elsewhere, you are now dragging in more poor vulnerable soles into your conspiracy.

That's it from me, goodnight

I believe you meant "souls" not soles... when it's read the way you typed it... it's actually rather funny.. get it?? dragging soles (as in the bottom of shoes)

I don't think you were trying to be funny, but thanks for the giggle.

[teal]

Bold why are you now stirring the pot after Bla1ze put things back on track?? Geeez

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[stewdaddy]

I would say a BB is safe, but I am not sure how safe. I would probably, if at all possible that is, just leave my BB home. I would not want to chance it.

I think that would probably be my decision as well. (though I can't imagine having to be without my berry)