[lnichols]

Apple has gotten AT&T to provide a $400 subsidy for every Iphone, both 3G and 3GS. Seems like all the other phones over at AT&T are around the $250 range in subsidy, even the Bold, and $250 seems to be the norm at most of the carriers for a smartphone. Even the new EVO on Sprint with all its specs and features will retail at $450, and after the $250 subsidy be $199. So why don't these other manufacturers start saying to AT&T, no you can't have the phone unless we get what Apple is getting in subsidy? Especially RIM cause AT&T is going to charge extra for BIS and make money on the service. I would think that RIM could pull it off because if AT&T didn't get any new BB's, customers that want BB would have to switch to someone who had them. Just like people left other carriers to get an iPhone, a lot of people, and businesses would leave AT&T if they didn't have a Blackberry to offer.

The iPhone has a significant advantage over any other retailer, just because of this $400 subsidy. They can make more per phone, and still sell at the same price of a Blackberry Bold, HTC EVO, etc. The other manufacturers should start demanding the same from AT&T, and stop selling them devices if they don't like it, then after they got AT&T to bend (which they would), they could go to the other carriers and say, hey we get this over at AT&T, we want it from you now or no more phones.

I'm not saying that I want to pay more for phones, I'm saying that it should be a level field for all. AT&T is giving Apple $150 more per unit than they give to everyone else which is crap. Everyone smartphone should either get $250, or $400 but the way things are now is ridiculous. Why should someone have to pay $200 for a Bold they can get for $449, when $200 will get you a a $599 iPhone. People who aren't buying an iPhone are basically getting screwed to the tune of $150 compared to someone who buys an iPhone.

What I would really like to see happen is an iPhone cost $249 as the base and all the way up to $449 for the pimped out. That would be fair field. Unfortunately I don't think RIM has the nads to make a stand against AT&T, or anyone for that matter.

[Motorcycle Mama]

What difference does it make to us?

[ttfmaep]

I agree with Mama but I'll just say that AT&T/Apple gets it back with more expensive plans. When the 3G came out it was cheaper than the first gen iPhone, but the plan was more per month.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

The OP post is so fully of gibberish... I don't know where to start...

but I'll pick the one about BB users paying extra for BIS. UMMM, iPhone users also
pay $30 for their data plan, right? How are we being charged more? And don't all
the Android users have to have a data plan too? All carriers, not just AT&T are
placing data plan requirements on their smartphone customers.

[T�nis]

My Sprint Simply Everything plan includes BIS/data and all the domestic calls I want to make for ~$99/month. With Sprint's coverage, I can't imagine there's a plan that offers better value out there.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Username00089]

I don't care.

[KINetics]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[myka401]

What's a Troll am I missing somthing I have heard the reference thrown about before...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[TheScionicMan]

The other manufacturers should start demanding the same from AT&T, and stop selling them devices if they don't like it, then after they got AT&T to bend (which they would), they could go to the other carriers and say, hey we get this over at AT&T, we want it from you now or no more phones.

What you're describing is called collusion and is illegal. Apple had a unique position because they were bringing their first phone to market. These other manufacturers have existing relationships and agreements in place with the carriers and unless they all band together (collusion) one maker would just fill in for a stubborn one trying to hold out. Apple got the extra $$ from ATT for the exclusivity. They were starting a supply chain, not threatening to cut one off.

Besides, the retail/subsidy amount may just be an accounting trick. It would be a way for Apple to maintain their "Premium brand" status and also get more for full retail replacements when that glass breaks, but maybe ATT's getting them for a price that competes with the other phones. Who knows? I haven't seen the fine points of the agreement...

[Snarfler]

The blog article today about the white bb shows a $400 subsidy if you sign a multiyear service contract.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[jeff.parent]

What's a Troll am I missing somthing I have heard the reference thrown about before...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

A troll is someone who goes to a forum to give out bad information for the purpose of getting people angry/crazy. As for this topic, its not a "I have a problem...", "look at this news...", "what do others think about...". The purpose of this post is to say "look at the crap that Apple gets away with, this is BS." It has you positive value to the community.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[gregorylkelly]

The term Troll gets thrown around way to much! This guy isn't trolling, he just doesn't quite get how things work (collusion and general business practices). I don't see him trying to rial anyone up here, he is asking a serious question and he has gotten mostly serious answers besides the troll that called him a troll.

[flakbook]

My Sprint Simply Everything plan includes BIS/data and all the domestic calls I want to make for ~$99/month. With Sprint's coverage, I can't imagine there's a plan that offers better value out there.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I second that motion...until something better comes out. But really, AT&T may claim more of the "hotter" phones, but what they have in phones they lack in default phone apps and affordable service.

[lnichols]

UMMM, iPhone users also pay $30 for their data plan, right? How are we being charged more? And don't all the Android users have to have a data plan too? All carriers, not just AT&T are placing data plan requirements on their smartphone customers.

Exactly. AT&T is giving people who buy an iPhone $150 additional in subsidies for an iPhone compared to a blackberry, and as it works out AT&T makes the same per month back whether they sale the iPhone or the Blackberry. So my point is why is AT&T allowed to give the iPhone the greater subsidy, when in the end they aren't making any more money on the service? I know it is their choice/prerogative to do so, but it could also be a phone manufacturers choice to demand the same subsidy and hold back new models. Nothing says RIM has to sell AT&T new phones that come out.

As for the collusion comment, it's not collusion if RIM goes to AT&T and says no more new phones if you won't give us an even playing field with Apple. It would be collusion if RIM, HTC, Samsung, etc, all met up and said lets do this to AT&T with all our phones. If RIM did this it would simply be business. You give them this, I want that or the 9700 bold is the last phone you will see until I get that.

And I'm not necessarily singling out AT&T, because if the iPhone ever gets offered to T-Mobile, Verizon, and/or Sprint, then you know that Apple is going to want the same subsidy from these carriers too.

[Motorcycle Mama]

Again I will ask, What difference does it make to us?

[Denise in Los Angeles]

AT&T is giving people who buy an iPhone $150 additional in subsidies for an iPhone compared to a blackberry, and as it works out AT&T makes the same per month back whether they sale the iPhone or the Blackberry. So my point is why is AT&T allowed to give the iPhone the greater subsidy, when in the end they aren't making any more money on the service? I know it is their choice/prerogative to do so, but it could also be a phone manufacturers choice to demand the same subsidy and hold back new models. Nothing says RIM has to sell AT&T new phones that come out.

WHO CARES? and WRONG.

People who buy iPhones want different features than Blackberry users.

AT&T is making more money from their customers, whether they buy an iPhone
or a Blackberry! Do the math. You can get a 9700 with a nice subsidy too
from AT&T but you will pay more each month for their service. I did the math,
and I would have to pay at least $15 more per month to switch to AT&T.
(***Please note that most people would pay more than the $15 that I would,
because I use low monthly minutes. It would be quite higher for me if I had an
unlimited voice plan.***)

Your logic is flawed because the real cost of the phone to the buyer includes
what you will pay over the course of the 2 year contract.

But keep on posting gibberish, if it makes you happy.

[exelant]

My Sprint Simply Everything plan includes BIS/data and all the domestic calls I want to make for ~$99/month. With Sprint's coverage, I can't imagine there's a plan that offers better value out there.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

The same plan is $70 with T-Mo. Not trying to stir you up because I do understand coverage makes a difference. I also know T-Mo's coverage isn't great some places, but where I live in Colorado, it's better than Sprint - I rarely lose signal with T-Mo and always lose signal with my work issued Sprint phone at home and lots of other places in Colorado.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Totalimmortal363]

Im surprised no one has brought this up yet, but Apple bends to NO ONE. The reason AT&T has the iPhone is because we agreed to a set of terms that VZW wouldn't. We bent to Apple's will. I'd bet, somewhere in that contract, there is a stipulation about subsidty amounts for the iPhone.

[lnichols]

WHO CARES? and WRONG.

People who buy iPhones want different features than Blackberry users.

AT&T is making more money from their customers, whether they buy an iPhone
or a Blackberry! Do the math. You can get a 9700 with a nice subsidy too
from AT&T but you will pay more each month for their service. I did the math,
and I would have to pay at least $15 more per month to switch to AT&T.
(***Please note that most people would pay more than the $15 that I would,
because I use low monthly minutes. It would be quite higher for me if I had an
unlimited voice plan.***)

Your logic is flawed because the real cost of the phone to the buyer includes
what you will pay over the course of the 2 year contract.

But keep on posting gibberish, if it makes you happy.

I'm not talking about switching carriers to get one. Never said that. Just because you interpret sentences into gibberish isn't my problem. I'm simply keeping it only at an AT&T level, since they are the only ones with the iPhone in the US, and are providing the subsidy. You get a nice subsidy that seems to be the norm, but not equal and less than the iPhone subsidy. I only brought up the other carriers in my second statement because of the speculation of the phone be offered elsewhere.

[flakbook]

Yeah, what they said.

[lnichols]

Again I will ask, What difference does it make to us?

Right now for you since you are on Verizon nothing. But an AT&T customer would get a new Bold for $50 if the subsidy were the same, or a curve would be free with a $50 rebate. Instead a Bold is the same cost as an iPhone, even though the iPhone is actually $150 more if you buy both outright. Anyway I guess from the comments on here people don't care that Apple gets a huge sales advantage over any other handset manufacturer right from the start that allows them to bring there phone to market at the same price as the competition but get $150 more right from the start.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

I'm not talking about switching carriers to get one. Never said that. Just because you interpret sentences into gibberish isn't my problem. I'm simply keeping it only at an AT&T level, since they are the only ones with the iPhone in the US, and are providing the subsidy. You get a nice subsidy that seems to be the norm, but not equal and less than the iPhone subsidy. I only brought up the other carriers in my second statement because of the speculation of the phone be offered elsewhere.

Then go buy an iPhone. Or not. But if you don't get an iPhone, why care so
much about the subsidy? Its ridiculous.

LOL.

[Motorcycle Mama]

Right now for you since you are on Verizon nothing. But an AT&T customer would get a new Bold for $50 if the subsidy were the same, or a curve would be free with a $50 rebate. Instead a Bold is the same cost as an iPhone, even though the iPhone is actually $150 more if you buy both outright. Anyway I guess from the comments on here people don't care that Apple gets a huge sales advantage over any other handset manufacturer right from the start that allows them to bring there phone to market at the same price as the competition but get $150 more right from the start.

Finally, you caught on.

[Pilot Prop]

I think this post was pointless

[Snarfler]

I think this post I am writing will also be pointless