New Storm 2 Piezo/Screen Talk - Patents, Observations, Clarifications, etc.

[britishturbo]

Originally Posted by alicklee

Dude how many you got send me one if you have a spare lol

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

LOL no spares... sorry
I'll prolly give this one away though

[Card Storm]

Originally Posted by britishturbo

They are not force sensitive resistors... really.
There is just buttons on top of Piezo discs...

And to answer the question Piezo Discs are fine unless directly stressed... like if you bend one or hit it with something...

Those panels protruding from the disc are force sensitive resistors. Not to challenge your knowledge but I know what I'm talking about. Piezo electrics can only create a charge if pressure is applied. The only way for the piezo discs to get the message of transfer of energy there has to be a sensor object. The only sensory objects used in piezo electrics are force sensitive resistors. In not saying its not a capacitive screen but if you do your research clearly that is what those are. Since when has anyone ever seen a "button" that's white, flat, with electrodes. Ill stand by this until odin comes out.

[britishturbo]

Originally Posted by Card Storm

Those panels protruding from the disc are force sensitive resistors. Not to challenge your knowledge but I know what I'm talking about. Piezo electrics can only create a charge if pressure is applied. The only way for the piezo discs to get the message of transfer of energy there has to be a sensor object. The only sensory objects used in piezo electrics are force sensitive resistors. In not saying its not a capacitive screen but if you do your research clearly that is what those are. Since when has anyone ever seen a "button" that's white, flat, with electrodes. Ill stand by this until odin comes out.

I must apologize because I thought you were calling the piezo discs themselves "force sensitive resistors" They are not. The are just piezo discs.
Yes the "button" above the piezo disc is a "force sensitive resistor" ... however I have been calling them buttons for the sake of simplicity... for that is how they work.
A pressure level is set as a trigger point, given a given resistance ... when that point is reached the result is the same as pressing a button as far as the firmware is concerned...

But to further clarify... the piezo disc does not rely on having a force sensitive resistor to work... anything can be used to trigger a piezo disc... You'd be amazed what you can do with a piezo disc...

Depending on how you wire a piezo disc it can be used to create force, or to even detect it...
You can make a crude seismograph given a piezo disc, a ball bearing, some epoxy and something to hold the disc by the edges Yes I know all about Piezo technology...

And to answer

Since when has anyone ever seen a "button" that's white, flat, with electrodes

ummm quite often actually... lol. But what do I know? I'm only a systems engineer for a hich tech electronics company

But anyway, we're arguing over technicalities... call them what you want, but the "force sensitive resistors" are being used to "switch" on and off the piezo discs... therefore they are being used as "buttons" or "switches" end of discussion

[Card Storm]

Ok cool lol so now I pretty much agree with every thing thanks for all the clarifications, you do seem to know your stuff!

[wowiezowie]

RIM is using sea monkeys that scream every time they get squished by the storm screen.

Please save the sea monkeys.

Originally Posted by britishturbo

I must apologize because I thought you were calling the piezo discs themselves "force sensitive resistors" They are not. The are just piezo discs.
Yes the "button" above the piezo disc is a "force sensitive resistor" ... however I have been calling them buttons for the sake of simplicity... for that is how they work.
A pressure level is set as a trigger point, given a given resistance ... when that point is reached the result is the same as pressing a button as far as the firmware is concerned...

But to further clarify... the piezo disc does not rely on having a force sensitive resistor to work... anything can be used to trigger a piezo disc... You'd be amazed what you can do with a piezo disc...

Depending on how you wire a piezo disc it can be used to create force, or to even detect it...
You can make a crude seismograph given a piezo disc, a ball bearing, some epoxy and something to hold the disc by the edges Yes I know all about Piezo technology...

And to answer ummm quite often actually... lol. But what do I know? I'm only a systems engineer for a hich tech electronics company

But anyway, we're arguing over technicalities... call them what you want, but the "force sensitive resistors" are being used to "switch" on and off the piezo discs... therefore they are being used as "buttons" or "switches" end of discussion

[seraphim123]

A few questions that will surely belie my own ignorance, but as an investor in RIMM I feel compelled to ask anyway.

As a professional who has used BB devices his entire career, I am generally confident in BB's prospects of continuing to dominate the business/data transmission sector of the handheld industry. In a word, nothing suffices like BB's physical keyboard and email displays. On the other hand, the Iphone, while an endearing device, has always appeared to me as more of a "gimmicky" (probably not fair to Apple) app-ridden media center whose basic premise is that phones (read: not email devices) should be fun and whose customer base if everyone who either doesn't mind carrying two devices (i.e., BB and an Iphone) or is not a habitual emailer.

However, I recently ran across the following (which I am sure is news to no one):

RIM working on a touchscreen QWERTY slider hybrid? - SlipperyBrick.com

This, together with news of the more traditional looking, new 99xx touchscreen, leads me to a few basic questions. I would certainly appreciate anyone addressing these in turn:

First: What, if anything, is stopping BB from developing these hybrid touchscreen phones that incorporate a physical keyboard and essentially combine the best of the BB and Iphone worlds? If BB succeeded in doing this, would its OS be able to run Iphone or Iphone-esque apps?

Second: Why was the BB app store such a flop in comparison to the Apple app store? I read recently that BB has only about 750 apps available, compared to the Iphone's 16,000 or so.

Third (and related to the First point, I suppose): Would one or both of these new touchscreen blackberries have a touchscreen which will "swipe" touch like the Iphone, as opposed to pressing buttons underlying the screen, as discussed above (and if not, why in the world not, as surely it is better to have the full screen range touchable rather than designated press-areas)?

Fourth and Finally: I would welcome any thoughts and/or constructive criticism of my view of the relative merits/demerits of the BB platform vis-a-vis the Iphone platform.

Sincerest apologies for running on like this, but I have been mulling over these issues for the last few days (especially in light of the fact that RIMM recently missed analysts' estimates (not that that is an indication of an inherent flaw in the business model by any means) and just wanted to air them.

Thanks in advance.

[theanswer3]

Originally Posted by seraphim123

A few questions that will surely belie my own ignorance, but as an investor in RIMM I feel compelled to ask anyway.

Second: Why was the BB app store such a flop in comparison to the Apple app store? I read recently that BB has only about 750 apps available, compared to the Iphone's 16,000 or so.

Thanks in advance.

THe new apple app commercial says there are 75000 apps for iPHONE. However 60% are copies of existing programs, and 50% of the remaining 40% are fart,lighter, beer pouring, level type applications. So even with only 20% of 75000 being usefull thats still a pretty big #.

[corymcnutt]

Originally Posted by seraphim123

A few questions that will surely belie my own ignorance, but as an investor in RIMM I feel compelled to ask anyway.

Second: Why was the BB app store such a flop in comparison to the Apple app store? I read recently that BB has only about 750 apps available, compared to the Iphone's 16,000 or so.

I believe the old saying of "Quality, not quantity" could apply here. BB users want a few, good, business, or useful apps; not games or "cute" little things like a farting app (although, I must admit that could be fun). We want a great calendar, clock, appointment, reference books, etc., as well as a great browser (is BB ever going to perfect that?). Fun, is secondary. Just a thought.
We also have to look at it from the developer's point of view; how many will they sell and how much money will they make? iPhone would come first, but hopefully they will do a BB version as well.

[Vtsdan]

Originally Posted by seraphim123

First: What, if anything, is stopping BB from developing these hybrid touchscreen phones that incorporate a physical keyboard and essentially combine the best of the BB and Iphone worlds? If BB succeeded in doing this, would its OS be able to run Iphone or Iphone-esque apps?

Nothing is really stopping them from developing it. I'm SURE that they've thought about it at this point. Why wouldn't they? There are already hybrid phones out there with both a physical keyboard and on screen keyboard on the touchscreen. Question is if it makes sense in their business plan at this point. It seems like most people who i've seen either LOVE touchscreens, or LOATHE them. I'm certain there are plenty of people who would love to have both, but remember that having both would make a bigger, heavier, more expensive device (most likely), and often people are willing to settle for one or the other.

For the OS and applications, the change in the device itsself will not enable OSX on a blackberry, or enable iPhone-esque applications. The BB OS needs to be updated to a point where things like this would be possible, and then a developer has to actually create the application on top of that.

Originally Posted by seraphim123

Second: Why was the BB app store such a flop in comparison to the Apple app store? I read recently that BB has only about 750 apps available, compared to the Iphone's 16,000 or so.

As in one of the posts above me.. yes there are a LOT of useless apps, or copies of apps on the appstore. However, even though there may only be 15,000 or so real unique apps, that's still an insanely larger amount as the BB store. There are many reasons for this. One is that programming for OSX is MUCH easier and a MUCH quicker process by default, even without all of the tools that apple provides to make it even simpler. Programming for a BB OS is much more difficult, time consuming, and has many more security and graphical limitations. Just take the 3d games out of the picture and I'm sure you've knocked out a couple thousand. Take out all the musical (keyboard, synth, drum machine, guitar, woodwind/brass, etc) applications and you've knocked out a few hundred more. If BB were to update/recreate their OS, get it off of Java, and introduce an EASY way for developers to create applications, there would be many many more apps in the app store.

Originally Posted by seraphim123

Third (and related to the First point, I suppose): Would one or both of these new touchscreen blackberries have a touchscreen which will "swipe" touch like the Iphone, as opposed to pressing buttons underlying the screen, as discussed above (and if not, why in the world not, as surely it is better to have the full screen range touchable rather than designated press-areas)?

The four buttons on the bottom of a blackberry have specific uses. Without them, a BB wouldn't be a BB...

Originally Posted by seraphim123

Fourth and Finally: I would welcome any thoughts and/or constructive criticism of my view of the relative merits/demerits of the BB platform vis-a-vis the Iphone platform.

While it seems like your questions are somewhat valid, it sounds like you're really wanting a BB to be an iPhone. A BB will never look like, feel like, taste like, or act like an iPhone, it's just not going to happen. You may just want to go pick up an iPhone, because looking for an apple-branded BB will leave you forever dissapointed.

[BzB]

one thing that hasn't been discussed much is the reliability of the new screen tech. i've seen a few reports of the screen failing to click, having inconsistent clicks, or the screen needing to be locked and unlocked several time in order for the screen to click properly.

this sounds concerning given rim's history with hardware issues on all of their phones, especially now that there are more parts for something to go wrong with on the s2.

not only do we need to be concerned with the 4 peizos under the screen, but now we have to hope the os plays nice at all times with the peizos.

...i'm wondering if s2 will add a whole new meaning to the screen click issues some people complained about with s1. hope not, but this is one thing that hasn't been discussed much.

[Card Storm]

Originally Posted by BzB

one thing that hasn't been discussed much is the reliability of the new screen tech. i've seen a few reports of the screen failing to click, having inconsistent clicks, or the screen needing to be locked and unlocked several time in order for the screen to click properly.

this sounds concerning given rim's history with hardware issues on all of their phones, especially now that there are more parts for something to go wrong with on the s2.

not only do we need to be concerned with the 4 peizos under the screen, but now we have to hope the os plays nice at all times with the peizos.

...i'm wondering if s2 will add a whole new meaning to the screen click issues some people complained about with s1. hope not, but this is one thing that hasn't been discussed much.

Good point, unfortunately this isn't something we can forecast because it hasn't launched yet. Discussing possible issues on a device which hasn't come out yet is semi useless. IMO

[BzB]

Originally Posted by Card Storm

Discussing possible issues on a device which hasn't come out yet is semi useless. IMO

by that logic wouldn't 99% of your posts/threads in the storm 2 forum be invalidated? LOL

the fact is that several people have already mentioned this as an issue. the good thing is that it seems limited to preprod devices. however, i think we can expect to see this as a recurring issue. if not for any other reason, simply because the technology is new to rim phones and hasn't been done before. we know their track record on that front...

how wide spread an issue would be speculation, but i'm sure rim has drawn up models on these types of failures. either way i for one will be watching this issue very closely after the storm 2 release. i think is has the possibility to be the only major with the phone. everything else (os, wifi, etc) has already been hashed out on other devices.

[Autosuggestion]

Originally Posted by Card Storm

Good point, unfortunately this isn't something we can forecast because it hasn't launched yet. Discussing possible issues on a device which hasn't come out yet is semi useless. IMO

Right, pointing out potential and somewhat obvious pitfalls of a device is stupid.

I guess the 2000 posts you have accumulated in only a few months must have been pretty stupid then...

[Card Storm]

I never said that, pointing them out is fine, but discussing negatives can only go so far if these negatives haven't been doresented with release. I think pointing out possible issues us a good thing to brighten awareness, but how much can we discuss an issue that hasn't shown prevalent yet? Please don't turn my words around, I never said anything about stupid.

[Card Storm]

Originally Posted by BzB

by that logic wouldn't 99% of your posts/threads in the storm 2 forum be invalidated? LOL

the fact is that several people have already mentioned this as an issue. the good thing is that it seems limited to preprod devices. however, i think we can expect to see this as a recurring issue. if not for any other reason, simply because the technology is new to rim phones and hasn't been done before. we know their track record on that front...

how wide spread an issue would be speculation, but i'm sure rim has drawn up models on these types of failures. either way i for one will be watching this issue very closely after the storm 2 release. i think is has the possibility to be the only major with the phone. everything else (os, wifi, etc) has already been hashed out on other devices.

I agree with everything except your first sentence.