BB vs Windows Mobile

[Zester]

My Corp has just implemented Outlook 2007, which killed my BB integration with the Corp email.

The explaination from my CIO is: "While we have not set a definitive direction for our Mobile Device strategy, the marketplace is definitely taking a momentum swing towards Windows Mobile devices… Blackberry is waning, and as we are currently experiencing, becoming more difficult to support. Therefore, the current interim strategy we are taking is to try and shift our current Blackberry users to a Windows Mobile 6.1 device. For purely domestic U.S. users, that is not a big deal for any of the major telco/wireless providers. But if you need global coverage (GSM and CDMA), it presents a problem if you are a Verizon user. According to Gartner, there are no current GSM-enabled Windows Mobile devices offered through Verizon… only AT&T offers this. So if you are already an AT&T-based Blackberry user, all you probably need is a new Windows Mobile device to replace your Blackberry. But if you are a Verizon user needing global coverage, then we would have to take you off Verizon and move you to AT&T.

FYI… you may know that Microsoft has been harshly criticized for the lack of a security focus in their products. So their newer products (like Exchange 2007) now have much more stringent security requirements. This is what is causing the problem with the newer Blackberries… they are not considered "secure", so Exchange will not let them fully interoperate. I believe we can get equally valuable, Blackberry-like functionality from the Windows Mobile devices. The advantage is you don't need an interim server stuck in-between you and the email system (Blackberries require an additional Blackberry Integration Server between you and the email system). With Windows Mobile devices, you can go directly into our new Exchange system (no interim servers needed) and still get the fully collaborative features found in Blackberries."

So fellow Crackberry users, is there really a security issue with BB? It does sound better to axe the BB server to be more directly compatible with our Corp email, but are there other alternatives anyone is aware of?

[noles200]

Originally Posted by Zester

My Corp has just implemented Outlook 2007, which killed my BB integration with the Corp email.

The explaination from my CIO is: "While we have not set a definitive direction for our Mobile Device strategy, the marketplace is definitely taking a momentum swing towards Windows Mobile devices… Blackberry is waning, and as we are currently experiencing, becoming more difficult to support. Therefore, the current interim strategy we are taking is to try and shift our current Blackberry users to a Windows Mobile 6.1 device. For purely domestic U.S. users, that is not a big deal for any of the major telco/wireless providers. But if you need global coverage (GSM and CDMA), it presents a problem if you are a Verizon user. According to Gartner, there are no current GSM-enabled Windows Mobile devices offered through Verizon… only AT&T offers this. So if you are already an AT&T-based Blackberry user, all you probably need is a new Windows Mobile device to replace your Blackberry. But if you are a Verizon user needing global coverage, then we would have to take you off Verizon and move you to AT&T.

FYI… you may know that Microsoft has been harshly criticized for the lack of a security focus in their products. So their newer products (like Exchange 2007) now have much more stringent security requirements. This is what is causing the problem with the newer Blackberries… they are not considered "secure", so Exchange will not let them fully interoperate. I believe we can get equally valuable, Blackberry-like functionality from the Windows Mobile devices. The advantage is you don't need an interim server stuck in-between you and the email system (Blackberries require an additional Blackberry Integration Server between you and the email system). With Windows Mobile devices, you can go directly into our new Exchange system (no interim servers needed) and still get the fully collaborative features found in Blackberries."

So fellow Crackberry users, is there really a security issue with BB? It does sound better to axe the BB server to be more directly compatible with our Corp email, but are there other alternatives anyone is aware of?

I'd like to know the answer to this question also.

[Valleyman]

Zester's post is of great interest. My organisation has just invested in a BES sever and a number of BlackBerrys (40+). Blackberry is now the executive device of choice to the exclusion of all other devices. I am sure that the number in circulation will increase greatly in the near future due to the popularity of the BlackBerrys amongst our management layer. However this decision was made against a reasoned argument in favour of Windows Mobile.
I would be interested in hearing from Blackberry administrators who also find themselves in this position and a response from a RIM representative to reassure the business community.

[gameboy213]

Interesting. Did you try a post in the bb admin forum? I bet you will get an answer quicker... I'd be interested to hear as well.

[ralanyo]

I have also noticed a lot of local companies in my area moving toward Msft Mobile products because they do not want to pay the BB cals. However, it really sucks for the users because I believe Microsofts mobile handhelds are subpar at best.

[Zypher1083]

Let me preface this post with the following information:
I just switched to the Curve 1 week ago
I switched from the Motorola Q (Windows Mobile 5 device)
I am a Sr. Network Admin for a division of a 2B USD Multinational Company (sorry it's vague but it's the best i can do)

I'll try and give you my perspective - even though i just recently moved to BB.

Originally Posted by Zester

My Corp has just implemented Outlook 2007, which killed my BB integration with the Corp email.

<soapbox>It is irresponsible and/or stupid of a company's IT department to implement a product that breaks functionality of any business device or process. There is no reason to deploy something that is known to break what has become a critical part of business these days. There should have been integration testing with all business process (including smart phones) and if any problems found then you work with the vendors to resolve them - if it is security related as your CIO said, then you are NOT the only one having the problem, and i'm sure RIM is working on a resolution.
</soapbox>
Sorry to start with a rant but seeing companies do that type of thing is a pet peave of mine.

Ok now, on to the meat of what he is saying

Originally Posted by Zester

The explaination from my CIO is: "While we have not set a definitive direction for our Mobile Device strategy,

Fair enough - my company allows both ( and iPhones in a few cases)

Originally Posted by Zester

the marketplace is definitely taking a momentum swing towards Windows Mobile devices… Blackberry is waning

If you look at the market research I would not say that is exactally true. Blackberry has lost market share to the _iPhone_ for the most part - while Windows Mobile is climbing it is slow and I am seeing a move withing my own company as contract renewals come up to move away from windows mobile devices. I would not be suprised to see Windows Mobile market share go down as Enterprises move away from it back to blackberry or iPhone

Here are a couple of sites i found quickly with year over year info
:: Sorry i Tried but i have not been a member long enough to post my links... search google for the following phrase "smartphone market share 2008" and you will see what i saw .. first 5-6 links

Originally Posted by Zester

Therefore, the current interim strategy we are taking is to try and shift our current Blackberry users to a Windows Mobile 6.1 device. For purely domestic U.S. users, that is not a big deal for any of the major telco/wireless providers.

While this may be true the available windows mobile devices are ... well crap even with the "extended" (read regular size) battery in my Q i was charging it at least 2x a day on a brand new battery. the keys don't register all of my keystrokes, there is no way to silence an incoming ring text message alert and the biggest one, the antenna only worked in areas with excellent coverage. In areas where i get 2 bars on my personal phone and my curve my Q would not be able to find a signal.

<snip>

Originally Posted by Zester

FYI… you may know that Microsoft has been harshly criticized for the lack of a security focus in their products. So their newer products (like Exchange 2007) now have much more stringent security requirements. This is what is causing the problem with the newer Blackberries… they are not considered "secure", so Exchange will not let them fully interoperate.

While this may be true for now - trust me RIM is working on fixing this - in all likelihood in conjunction with MS. Also while microsoft may be working to improve security they still have a long way to go to prove themselves.

Originally Posted by Zester

I believe we can get equally valuable, Blackberry-like functionality from the Windows Mobile devices.

No, you really can't. You can get something that lets you read your email, send texts and make phone calls but that is about all Windows Mobile is good for - in the first day moving to my curve ... no withing 10 mins of hooking it up to our BES server i just sat there thinking to myself "how did i put up with windows mobile"

You will lose productivity and functionality by going to window mobile, in addtion there is almost NO 3rd party developers for window mobile devices.

Blackberry has put a lot of thought into HOW people work and there are many little things that I have seen that just make using their devices a pleasure. With Windows Mobile it was always a struggle to get it to work the way i wanted.

One of the most notable examples is that With ActiveSync you cannot set alerting on subfolders - something I put up with, but well now that I'm on the Curve I A) don't miss my sub-folders on my device everything is just there and B) realize that on a smart phone using folders doesn't really give you anything as long as you only push the folders you really need from Exchange.

Originally Posted by Zester

The advantage is you don't need an interim server stuck in-between you and the email system (Blackberries require an additional Blackberry Integration Server between you and the email system). With Windows Mobile devices, you can go directly into our new Exchange system (no interim servers needed) and still get the fully collaborative features found in Blackberries."

Well the first part is an IT design issue. But I will just give one example that always annoyed my boss and I in the "fully collaborative features found in Blackberries" - the interface for setting meetings is clunky and has essential features missing such as inviting multiple people, updating meetings, and inviting resources to meeting.

Originally Posted by Zester

So fellow Crackberry users, is there really a security issue with BB? It does sound better to axe the BB server to be more directly compatible with our Corp email, but are there other alternatives anyone is aware of?

Personally since BES only needs outbound ports open and not inbound ports then from the network layer no - however you probably already have https open for webmail so it's a wash. I don't think there are alternatives, last I checked ActiveSync on devices that were not running Windows Mobile was so horribly restricted that they are not worth using.

[bubbatex]

I only have one disagreement with you:

"You will lose productivity and functionality by going to window mobile, in addtion there is almost NO 3rd party developers for window mobile devices."

That is not true - there are TONS of WM developers and programs out there - probably not as many as there *were* for Palm in the day, but there are certainly enough to cover just about any base you need. Now, if you meant to imply there were not a lot of programs for the Q, aka a "WM Smartphone" in 5.0 and "WM Standard" in 6.0 & 6.1 (both non-touch screen), I can agree with that. The majority of the development is on the PPC, or touch screen WM platform.

Overall, it is cheaper to run WM devices if you are a Microsoft shop and/or you have Exchange hosted elsewhere. Full ActiveSync is "free" with Exchange, but BB always costs more. Correct?

[Zypher1083]

Originally Posted by bubbatex

I only have one disagreement with you:

"You will lose productivity and functionality by going to window mobile, in addtion there is almost NO 3rd party developers for window mobile devices."

That is not true - there are TONS of WM developers and programs out there - probably not as many as there *were* for Palm in the day, but there are certainly enough to cover just about any base you need. Now, if you meant to imply there were not a lot of programs for the Q, aka a "WM Smartphone" in 5.0 and "WM Standard" in 6.0 & 6.1 (both non-touch screen), I can agree with that. The majority of the development is on the PPC, or touch screen WM platform.

Yep I ment WM for Smartphone/Standard sorry for the confusion there and thanks for correcting me.

Originally Posted by bubbatex

Overall, it is cheaper to run WM devices if you are a Microsoft shop and/or you have Exchange hosted elsewhere. Full ActiveSync is "free" with Exchange, but BB always costs more. Correct?

I would say in small installations - less than 10 - 15 smart phones yes it will be cheaper. However the management features in ActiveSync are very lacking (In Exchange 2003 I can't speak for 07 as we have only just started modeling and bringing an 07 test environment up).

In the long term with larger installs you will spend alot more time hand holding and troubleshooting Windows Mobile devices. I would say at least every month or two i have to deal with someone's active sync just mysteriously breaking. Not to say blackberry doesn't have problems ... at least in my experience they have fewer software related issues.

In assessing the cost of a product you always need to at least try to take into account the cost of support.

[bubbatex]

Originally Posted by Zypher1083

In assessing the cost of a product you always need to at least try to take into account the cost of support.

Agree - it is sometimes hard to pin down (and sometimes one can make the outcome look as they want it to ), but it is still important.

[3CISSBB]

The entire concept of a secure mobile device is deceiving. There is no way to absolutely secure a mobile device. With that being said, there are definitive actions you can take and implement to make anything 'more' secure, but beware that with increased security, you get decreased performance and functionality.

Bluetooth on the Blackberry has several different settings and levels depending on the Bluetooth equipment you are connecting to. You can also turn the Firewall on within the BB's settings which can help block unwanted messaging. If you run a BES, the IT admin has many more tools available to them for securing the device.

As long as any device is connected either through a data stream or cell network stream, there will be risks. Different ports can be used with almost any email, as long as the server and device support them and the transport protocol.

Mobile browsing can also be secured by turning off such features like Javascript and its support, just like your desktop.

I have used MinMo devices and they are no more secure than a Blackberry.

As a computer security professional, I'll stick with my BB.

[CanuckBB]

First off, moving to Outlook 2007 has nothing to do with using the BB. I have Outlook 2007 and my BB works just fine. Exchange 2007 may require an upgrade to the BES. OWA 2007 is known to not work very well with BIS.

While true that ActiveSync is 'free' out-of-the-box with Exchange, any of the security and device control requirments need additional software, and CALs. The Microsoft solution is not all that much cheaper.

I don't get the security comment from the CIO. BBs are secure. The only security issue I remember with Exchange and BBs were introduced with the DST patch, and had to do with BES users that were part of the Domain Admin groups. There is a fix for that. Exchange knows nothing of the BB. BES needs access to Exchange. I have no doubt that MS is trying to make it more difficult for software like BES to access mailboxes, but that is not a reflection on the security of the BES.

I tend to be wary of executives who start to quote Gartner. They are a safety net for CIOs. If they make a wrong decision, they can face the board and blame Gartner. Fact is, those firms are right about as often as they are wrong and some of the reports are reflective of who butters their bread.

[jmr1015]

The reception quality, email support, and overall productivity with my old Moto Q9 Global with WM 6 was quite terrible. That's not to say anything about battery life (or lack there of), even with the larger extended life battery.

My previous Blackberry (8100 Pearl) was no work horse... But the same cannot be said about my current device, the 9000 Bold. Reception is great using AT&T GSM service here in the States... especially California. As far as I know, it is world capable, though I haven't had the opportunity to travel abroad with it just yet. If it has a downfall, it would have to be battery life.