[tufcustomer]

So recently I had the misfortune of breaking my commuter case whilst removing. It already had a crack and didn't play nice with the removal. Anyway, since removing it I've notice that my Z30 is much improved in picking up signal and maintaining a signal. For example, when coming out of a subway tunnel it would generally take me a minute before my phone picked up a Rogers signal, now I get a full bar signal shortly before leaving the tunnel. Weird. Anyone else experience something similar without a case?

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[FF22]

Interesting observation. Can you piece the case together with glue or duct tape and try experimenting? Did you hold it differently when in that case?

[Branta]

It is extremely unlikely an Otterbox case made from plastic materials would have any measurable impact on radio signals. The more likely explanation is that the radio signal has been improved (or a broken cell has been fixed) around your subway exit. The big clue will be whether you see a consistent change in signal strength in other areas away from the subway. I'm guessing you won't see that change.

[tufcustomer]

I disagree, it's not just one exit I've observed this at, any time I approach an opening my phone has signal whereas usually I would pass through the opening and it would still be searching for a network. I'm using the TTC in Toronto, doubt over night they corrected the towers across Toronto.

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[tufcustomer]

Interesting observation. Can you piece the case together with glue or duct tape and try experimenting? Did you hold it differently when in that case?

Nope, held it no different than I would in the Otterbox. I'll put it together and see what happens.

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[Branta]

I disagree, it's not just one exit I've observed this at, any time I approach an opening my phone has signal whereas usually I would pass through the opening and it would still be searching for a network. I'm using the TTC in Toronto, doubt over night they corrected the towers across Toronto.

Posted via CB10

With many upgrades still ongoing for 4G expansion it is actually possible that the signal has been improved over a wide area, or even a rollout associated with subway facilities. However, you will get a better clue about possible signal attenuation by looking at performance in other areas where you previously had a partial signal.

I still think it is extremely unlikely that an Otterbox case would make a significant difference to the signal. The plastics from which they are made are almost completely transparent to radio signals (although anything including air has *some* attenuation). It is likely that measurement of attenuation from the thickness of material in a cellphone case would need at least research grade equipment rather than the somewhat crude steps of a bar indicator on a phone display. As a rough guide, one step in the bar graph with linear scaling might represent a difference in signal around 6-10dB, that's a difference of x4 to x10 which is completely not plausible from a thin layer of plastic.

Reading your question again, can you clarify "now I get a full bar signal" - do you mean one single bar, or a 5-bar full house?

It is also relevant to consider that the bar indicator doesn't correlate with having a usable signal. I have 2 particular conditions in mind, the first where there is a strong signal but quality is degraded by locally generated interference. Here you would get a delay until you moved further from the source of interference. The second condition is a strong signal, but too many users exceeding the capacity of the cell. This can show as several confusing options - you might see a delay while the local strongest cell waits until another user ends a call or transfers to another cell. It is also possible your phone might be switched to a more distant cell with a weaker signal but more available capacity.

[tufcustomer]

With many upgrades still ongoing for 4G expansion it is actually possible that the signal has been improved over a wide area, or even a rollout associated with subway facilities. However, you will get a better clue about possible signal attenuation by looking at performance in other areas where you previously had a partial signal.

I still think it is extremely unlikely that an Otterbox case would make a significant difference to the signal. The plastics from which they are made are almost completely transparent to radio signals (although anything including air has *some* attenuation). It is likely that measurement of attenuation from the thickness of material in a cellphone case would need at least research grade equipment rather than the somewhat crude steps of a bar indicator on a phone display. As a rough guide, one step in the bar graph with linear scaling might represent a difference in signal around 6-10dB, that's a difference of x4 to x10 which is completely not plausible from a thin layer of plastic.

Reading your question again, can you clarify "now I get a full bar signal" - do you mean one single bar, or a 5-bar full house?

It is also relevant to consider that the bar indicator doesn't correlate with having a usable signal. I have 2 particular conditions in mind, the first where there is a strong signal but quality is degraded by locally generated interference. Here you would get a delay until you moved further from the source of interference. The second condition is a strong signal, but too many users exceeding the capacity of the cell. This can show as several confusing options - you might see a delay while the local strongest cell waits until another user ends a call or transfers to another cell. It is also possible your phone might be switched to a more distant cell with a weaker signal but more available capacity.

Okay you're obviously more technically sound than I am in this aspect, but to clarify I did mean 5 bars full house, and the signal is usable as I tend to use this brief stretch to get Whatsapp messages and refresh apps like CB. Literally a 10 second stretch in some parts.

Also, prior to this I have had several instances where I would have to turn off my mobile network and then re-engage it to pick up a signal in a timely manner after getting out of the subway. While others would pick up signal almost instantaneously I would pass through without even getting a signal.

Additional observations I have made are where I'd average 2 bars on LTE I'm doing 3-4 consistently. It may be purely coincidental that I broke my case simultaneously to the towers being updated, but a little too coincidental don't you think?

I'll see how it does tomorrow. Maybe it was just a fluke. Maybe it's my Paratek antenna becoming finicky.



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[Branta]

Right... on an older GSM/3G phone the difference between no bars and full bars is usually about 40dB, so a 10,000x stronger received signal. That's like the difference between being 10 miles from the only available cell tower, or right next to it, so it still suggests some external changes might be a factor. The other thing which you have revealed is LTE. The original GSM phones were usually designed so each extra bar represented a similar increase in signal. That kind of fell apart later when some manufacturers started to add an adjustment for the quality of connection, then they got LTE and changed the scheme yet again. It might also be influenced by network congestion, delays to assign a slot, and with multiple users all coming out of the same subway trying to grab the same cell at the same time, "first up best dressed" - pure luck and timing that your phone requests a slot just as one becomes free, or just too late and another user got in ahead of you.

However you also mentioned needing to restart the networking, which is something I have noticed when signal is lost for a longer period. I suspect the phone might have a graded search for signal for power saving - if signal is lost search immediately, if no luck after 'n' tries there's no signal so increase the delay between searches so we don't eat the battery before the human moves to an area with service. If still no luck increase the delay some more, etc. The restart will shift from reduced search back to a more aggressive mode.

I've also seen gaps and failures in cell hand-off where the phone goes into a tunnel or other dead zone, and the next available cell is not logically connected to the last good cell. The hand-off scheme expects the phone to move in a rational manner between cells in a rational chain with a gradual shift in best cell so the system knows (ahead of events) the expected jump to the next tower. When the phone simply drops off the net and reappears somewhere completely different it has to start the search from scratch and renegotiate all the protocols.

[houstoncheng]

I think you may be right - I've had both Defender and Commuter for the Z30, and the Bluetooth reception is noticeably weaker with the Commuter.

[rotorwrench]

I've used both on my Z30, a Commuter and a Defender and had no noticeable difference in signal strength or quality, in or out of the case. I predominantly use the Defender case, which is more robust and heavier than the Commuter and if there was a signal degradation due to the case I would definitely know in the area I'm in, due to frequently being on the fringe of a 4G area. There are definite areas where I lose 4G and it remains the same whether the Z is in the case or not.

Back with OS7 and prior you could change the bar display to actual signal strength in db, which is truly more accurate than the screwed up bar system now, but that feature isn't available on BB10 that I'm aware of. But the next best thing, and is sort of a cool app due to other tracking and logging features, is Signal Tracker in BB World, made for BB10 and will give you live, true signal strength wherever you are, with the ability to track and view on Google Maps if you want a record of locations with the best signal. Worth checking out and very informative if you are as signal anal as I am.

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