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  1. Bobert_123's Avatar
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    #176  

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    Quote Originally Posted by crackcookie View Post
    Yes we all have been waiting, you make it sound like it came out but your stores are all sold out or something. Anyway, your whole point is moot because you talk about specs....who gets things for specs? Quick, what are the specs of your car/microwave/****/pants/watch/tv/video game system and their next two direct competitors? And why is it that people only talk about specs with phones, as said before, it is about the OS and the experience not the specs. I could drive a Range Rover that has higher specs than my Rav-4. But does a bigger engine and more expensive type of gas result in a better experience for me? Do sports cars that ride so low to the ground you can't see around them with powerful engines that drown out the radio result in a better experience?

    At what spec points will you be satisfied? How many megapixels, cores, and pixels does RIM need to put into their phone to please you? Seriously, what is the magic number? Does it have to be higher than someone else? Cuz, if that is the case, then when that phone is put in production, tested, marketed, and shipped....it will already be obsolete.

    Thoughts.....you need to do more thinking. Close more apps, use the browser more often, and buy phones on contract to save more money. The Nexus is an exception to the rule, and if you can afford that, you could easily afford a BB10 phone...and also, how much do you think it cost to make an S3? A Note 2? An i5? Do you think their silicon chips come from Mars, do you think their harddrives are from somewhere else besides Thailand?

    Do you know that just about everything you buy in life is marked up, be it for pure profit, or because someone has done work for you, testing, marketing.....people are here to make money, not give you money.
    Yes, yes it does. Not caring much about a phones specs and saying they don't matter are COMPLETLY different.
    Sent from my NEW PASSPORT or a soon to be BB10 PlayBook

    - BlackBerry Curve 8530 (Virgin Mobile) - BlackBerry Bold 9900 (T-Mobile) - BlackBerry PlayBook 64 gig - BlackBerry Z10[/B] (T-Mobile) - BlackBerry Z30 WHITE (Unlocked) - Blackberry Passport (Unlocked)
  2. BB12MX's Avatar
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    #177  

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    Valid points ... I paid around $430 for my Bold 2 on a contract renewal mid 2011, then I paid $550 for my 9860 (full price) on Dec 2011 ... I am thinking I will pay about $600 for my BB10 when is released on a contract renewal, but full price will be for sure $950+ ... because in here that is the price for the iphone 5 and the galaxy SIII ... but I can tell you I do not have any problem paying this price for the phone that I want and I am waiting for ...

    So, lets enjoy our phones, because they worth the price =)

    Oh and I also paid $240 for my 64GB PB - full price - Oct 2012, and I do not regret this at all ...
    Last edited by BB12MX; 12-27-2012 at 12:39 PM. Reason: adding PB
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  3. m1a1mg's Avatar
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    #178  

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    I'll wait 60 days from release. Just to read the reviews and issues. From where it sit (got burned twice by BB), I'm going to have to see it work well before I step up.

    To anyone who says they buy anything without looking at the specs of the competition, really? I bought a new car this past summer. I not only knew the specs of the competition, I drove each of them.
  4. d3ac0n's Avatar
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    #179  

    Default Re: Z10 specs, price point - Not so impressed....

    It's not the specs that define the product but the user experience. If RIM can give an awesome experience with the BB10 they can surely charge more for their product.

    But for that to happen they need to get the devices to add many hands possible. So, more affordable devices will equal more sales, more sales will generate more hype. They can charge an arm and a leg for Aristo, but Z10 and X10 need to be affordable. Like sub $500 full contact affordable, not $600+ that is rumored

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  5. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    #180  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljbad4life View Post
    I just want to throw this out there as someone on the android side of the fence. It's about the user experience.

    I currently own a Galaxy s3, so do millions of other people and is the only phone in the USA to out sell the iphone on every carrier it's offered on. Why is that? it's not the specs. The HTC One x has the exact same CPU and Storage options (minus the micro sd slot) the One X has a better screen, better camera and is built out of better materials and has sold so few that HTC is floundering. The user experience is much better on the s3 with gestures that it elevates it above another android device.
    Didn't the ios increase its market share to over 50% in the states, it seems more likely that the s3 only really outsold the iphone in the quarter before the isheep marched out to queue for the ip5.

    Realistically, the main things in favour of the S3 are not user experience so much as the combination of a nice big screen and absolute ****loads of advertising that nobody else in the android market can match.
  6. Stychill's Avatar
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    #181  

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    Quote Originally Posted by crackcookie View Post
    If it ain't broke don't fix it right? Yes, they have nearly reached the pinnacle of their devices, but imagine if one day the Cammarro (I'm sure I didn't spell this properly, but why did autocorrect suggest mammary???) was turned into the Chevy Avalanche in the 2014 model, for the sake of drastic changes just to change?
    i'm not sure i fully understand what you're saying, rim used the same mentality and here they are making a change, they aren't completely copying another product they are coming up with their own ideas to improve on what was there. OS 7 whats stopping apple from doing the same thing and improving on IOS 6, in my opinion its stale and it looks like they have no idea of what they could do to the product to make it interesting again. Rim has made an astronomical change from OS 7 to BB10 albeit a long overdue change but at least they knew when enough was enough.
  7. Stychill's Avatar
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    #182  

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    Quote Originally Posted by d3ac0n View Post
    It's not the specs that define the product but the user experience. If RIM can give an awesome experience with the BB10 they can surely charge more for their product.

    But for that to happen they need to get the devices to add many hands possible. So, more affordable devices will equal more sales, more sales will generate more hype. They can charge an arm and a leg for Aristo, but Z10 and X10 need to be affordable. Like sub $500 full contact affordable, not $600+ that is rumored

    Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2
    We have the same opinion on the matter.
  8. ljbad4life's Avatar
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    #183  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    There is a large segment of the population for whom the single most important factor in a purchase decision for certain items is brand name. I strongly suspect smartphones might fall into this category. Samsung is a very respected and desired brand name in consumer electronics and inspires strong brand loyalty. Given similar factors, I believe more people will choose a Samsung phone over a competitor.
    On one hand I agree with you (apple has die hard fans, even blackberry has die hard fans), but on another hand I don't. If you look at the trend with android phones, people have no brand loyalty that last more than 2 phone cycles. Remember HTC was the bell of the ball, selling millions upon millions and could do no wrong (think original Evo era), now look at HTC, ready to crumble. Then look at Samsung, which when they launched the original galaxy that was plagued with software and hardware issues, people swore never to buy samsung again and it reflected in the relatively low galaxy S purchases and only slightly better SGS2. Now the SGS3 is flying off the shelves.

    Experience keeps people coming back, not specs.
  9. Crowezine's Avatar
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    #184  

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    Think about it. We'll have the same issue we had with the PlayBook's at first. They started at around 500/$700 and now they're about 150/$280, so they've gone down immensly. This might happen with the phones. They'll start at around 600, and end up being 200 in the near future. No worries!
    Josh - Curve 9320 & PlayBook 64GB - BlackBerry Enthusiast - CrackBerry Addict - PlayBook Sideloader
  10. ljbad4life's Avatar
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    #185  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeevecr View Post
    Didn't the ios increase its market share to over 50% in the states, it seems more likely that the s3 only really outsold the iphone in the quarter before the isheep marched out to queue for the ip5.

    Realistically, the main things in favour of the S3 are not user experience so much as the combination of a nice big screen and absolute ****loads of advertising that nobody else in the android market can match.
    Have you used a S3? Have you used the gestures, and many of the other features (like voice actions) that set it apart? The one x has a big screen (the same size), and in fact a better screen! You can't advertise dual core, no one cares, but Samsung did advertise all of it's unique features (while taking digs at apple).

    and NO android or any phone could even challenge an old iphone (the iphone 4s was still current at the time) in sales so that speaks volumes.
  11. cjcampbell's Avatar
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    #186  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowezine View Post
    Think about it. We'll have the same issue we had with the PlayBook's at first. They started at around 500/$700 and now they're about 150/$280, so they've gone down immensly. This might happen with the phones. They'll start at around 600, and end up being 200 in the near future. No worries!
    I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
  12. Stychill's Avatar
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    #187  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowezine View Post
    Think about it. We'll have the same issue we had with the PlayBook's at first. They started at around 500/$700 and now they're about 150/$280, so they've gone down immensly. This might happen with the phones. They'll start at around 600, and end up being 200 in the near future. No worries!
    I expect that to happen too, but in about 4 years or so...by then i would have no need for a 1st generation BB10 device
  13. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    #188  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowezine View Post
    Think about it. We'll have the same issue we had with the PlayBook's at first. They started at around 500/$700 and now they're about 150/$280, so they've gone down immensly. This might happen with the phones. They'll start at around 600, and end up being 200 in the near future. No worries!
    No chance of that, if bb10 does not succeed at normal prices then the company is done and will simply stop making phones entirely rather than losing money per phone.
  14. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    #189  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljbad4life View Post
    Have you used a S3? Have you used the gestures, and many of the other features (like voice actions) that set it apart? The one x has a big screen (the same size), and in fact a better screen! You can't advertise dual core, no one cares, but Samsung did advertise all of it's unique features (while taking digs at apple).
    Aren't they just using the stock voice stuff from android? The htc has a slightly smaller screen, but my point was more about the combination of that nice big screen phone and the wall to wall advertising they bombard people with and to be fair they did take an interesting approach with that advertising, but you cannot underestimate how important the sheer volume of adverts also were.

    Ironically, that apple vs samsung trial probably helped too, as accusing your rival of being a copy that people can go into the shops and buy for less while seemingly getting more is not the smartest of moves on the part of apple.
  15. jdevenberg's Avatar
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    #190  

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    If any company can take Google on in the low cost for good hardware game, it would be RIM. They sell so many services and will make money off app sales, that it would make sense for them to go the Nexus 4 route and charge $350 for the hardware simply to build a user base that they can then sell services for and make money off of every month. They can't charge iPhone prices and expect people to pay that for it. I currently have Windows Phone 7 (Nokia Lumia 900) and am planning on getting a new phone in the next few months. Right now I'm leaning towards either a BB10 device or an iPhone 5. If they cost the same amount, since I'll be buying off contract, I'll go for the iPhone with the mature, established ecosystem or I'll stick with Windows Phone and get a Lumia 920 for $450 off contract from AT&T (better the devil you know than the devil you don't). If I can get the Z10 for $400 or less, I'll likely give BB10 a try.
  16. lnichols's Avatar
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    #191  

    Default Re: Z10 specs, price point - Not so impressed....

    I'm not impressed with this simplistic analysis of the Nexus pricing! Google is subsidizing the Nexus 4 bought through Play store. Many carriers decided to not carry the Nexus 4 because their off contract price of $499 couldn't compete with Google's subsidized off contract price. Also LG is trying to break into the US market and taking the razor thin margin approach. Similar spec'd phones from LG in Korea are selling for $900 US. I for one want RIM to sell phones and make money doing it.
  17. jdevenberg's Avatar
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    #192  

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    I'm not impressed with this simplistic analysis of the Nexus pricing! Google is subsidizing the Nexus 4 bought through Play store. Many carriers decided to not carry the Nexus 4 because their off contract price of $499 couldn't compete with Google's subsidized off contract price. Also LG is trying to break into the US market and taking the razor thin margin approach. Similar spec'd phones from LG in Korea are selling for $900 US. I for one want RIM to sell phones and make money doing it.
    The problem with that is, as Microsoft has seen with Windows Phone 7 and 8, that you can't offer an immature, new ecosystem and experience and price it the same as the heavy hitters and still sell units. It wasn't until the Lumia 900 and the Lumia 920 that any appriciable numbers of Windows Phones sold. The 920 was launched along side the Titan II, which was a superior phone in nearly every way, but cost the same as an iPhone, and the 900 sold circles around the Titan II.

    If RIM charges $600 off contract and $199 on contract, only die hard blackberry fans will buy a Z10. If they take the Nokia approach and offer top notch hardware at mid-range prices, they have a decent chance at selling good numbers of units. I know of three people, myself included, who are past blackberry users that would try BB10 at $99 on contract, but at $199, we'll either be 2 galaxy S 4's and an iPhone 5S this fall or 1 galaxy S4 and 2 5S's. If RIM wants to win new customers, they need to sell their phones at $99 on contract and no more than $499 off contract, but $400 or $450 would be better.
  18. ljbad4life's Avatar
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    #193  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeevecr View Post
    Aren't they just using the stock voice stuff from android? The htc has a slightly smaller screen, but my point was more about the combination of that nice big screen phone and the wall to wall advertising they bombard people with and to be fair they did take an interesting approach with that advertising, but you cannot underestimate how important the sheer volume of adverts also were.

    Ironically, that apple vs samsung trial probably helped too, as accusing your rival of being a copy that people can go into the shops and buy for less while seemingly getting more is not the smartest of moves on the part of apple.
    .10 inches is not perceivable to most people, but an IPS LCD is a much nicer than amoled and has less glare and better color balance/depth is. In every review, the One x wins out in the display category. Samsung has it's own suite of software that's built on top of android. that allows you to use hand gestures, tilt to zoom. One of my favorites is if you are texting someone and you want to call them you just put the phone to you face and it dials them.

    I will admit that marketing is a huge part of it, and maybe the trial did effect it too, but the LG optimus G is advertised pretty heavily and sales are lackluster.
  19. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    #194  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdevenberg View Post
    If any company can take Google on in the low cost for good hardware game, it would be RIM. They sell so many services and will make money off app sales, that it would make sense for them to go the Nexus 4 route and charge $350 for the hardware simply to build a user base that they can then sell services for and make money off of every month. They can't charge iPhone prices and expect people to pay that for it. I currently have Windows Phone 7 (Nokia Lumia 900) and am planning on getting a new phone in the next few months. Right now I'm leaning towards either a BB10 device or an iPhone 5. If they cost the same amount, since I'll be buying off contract, I'll go for the iPhone with the mature, established ecosystem or I'll stick with Windows Phone and get a Lumia 920 for $450 off contract from AT&T (better the devil you know than the devil you don't). If I can get the Z10 for $400 or less, I'll likely give BB10 a try.
    Rim has zero chance of competing if it comes down to being purely things like price, specs or time to market because the hardware margin is secondary to google or amazon and then there are the likes of samsung or the big chinese companies that can cope with tiny margins. Rim cannot command apple-like margins and nor will they expect to do so, but the idea that they would take a hit on the margins they need due to other revenue streams is fairly laughable.

    It seems like you are being far too strict on the pricing you will allow for bb10 when you will happily pay $450 for another wp after being failed by them with wp7 or you will pay $650 at a minimum for an iphone, but you will only consider the bb10 at $400 or less, to me that seems like you don't really want one and are looking for an excuse why not.
  20. jdevenberg's Avatar
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    #195  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeevecr View Post
    Rim has zero chance of competing if it comes down to being purely things like price, specs or time to market because the hardware margin is secondary to google or amazon and then there are the likes of samsung or the big chinese companies that can cope with tiny margins. Rim cannot command apple-like margins and nor will they expect to do so, but the idea that they would take a hit on the margins they need due to other revenue streams is fairly laughable.

    It seems like you are being far too strict on the pricing you will allow for bb10 when you will happily pay $450 for another wp after being failed by them with wp7 or you will pay $650 at a minimum for an iphone, but you will only consider the bb10 at $400 or less, to me that seems like you don't really want one and are looking for an excuse why not.
    I actually do want one, and honestly, I'd probably pay up to $499 for it, so long as its camera and build quality are up to par with other high end phones, $400 is just the most I'd be willing to commit sight unseen. I'm a chronic early adopter. I've used Android when 1.6 was the latest version, I adopted Windows Phone two months after it launched, even before its first update, and I'd love to give BB10 a whirl as well. And yes, I'd pay more for an iPhone because it comes with several promises Blackberry (and Windows Phone for that matter), can't make, such as: I will have the latest, hottest apps as soon as they launch and I'm not going to be stuck with a phone on a dead or dying platform halfway through my contract or a year after I drop $500 (or more) for a phone. I wouldn't pay over $499 for a Windows Phone either. Its the reason people will pay more for a Toyota than a Kia. Does it matter that the Kia is just as good now a days and has resolved the issues of the past? No. There is a name and trust issue that Kia has that Toyota doesn't. The Toyota has a precieved higher quality, even if it is entirely in consumers minds. Thats the same problem both RIM and Microsoft face in smartphones. The biggest problem with this is that the less tech saavy a consumer is, the bigger the name issue becomes, and it is the un-tech-saavy masses RIM needs to convince to buy its phones. I'm not saying they need to go Google thin on margins, but if they launch this at $599 off contract and $250 (as some have suggested) on contract no one will buy it. At $199 on contract, it will attract slightly more buyers. At $99, it will look appealing to average consumers compared to an aging iPhone 4S and the midling Android offerings, due to its richer feature set, better screen and camera than are generally found at that price range.
  21. lnichols's Avatar
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    #196  

    Default Re: Z10 specs, price point - Not so impressed....

    Quote Originally Posted by jdevenberg View Post
    The problem with that is, as Microsoft has seen with Windows Phone 7 and 8, that you can't offer an immature, new ecosystem and experience and price it the same as the heavy hitters and still sell units. It wasn't until the Lumia 900 and the Lumia 920 that any appriciable numbers of Windows Phones sold. The 920 was launched along side the Titan II, which was a superior phone in nearly every way, but cost the same as an iPhone, and the 900 sold circles around the Titan II.

    If RIM charges $600 off contract and $199 on contract, only die hard blackberry fans will buy a Z10. If they take the Nokia approach and offer top notch hardware at mid-range prices, they have a decent chance at selling good numbers of units. I know of three people, myself included, who are past blackberry users that would try BB10 at $99 on contract, but at $199, we'll either be 2 galaxy S 4's and an iPhone 5S this fall or 1 galaxy S4 and 2 5S's. If RIM wants to win new customers, they need to sell their phones at $99 on contract and no more than $499 off contract, but $400 or $450 would be better.
    RIM doesn't determine the on contract price, the carriers do. Carriers offer gret subsidies on the iPhone to hit the $200 sweet spot. Even though a GS3 is cheaper MSRP than iPhone, on contract price is $200 normally. I bet if RIM set the price at $499 then carriers would still charge $200 on contract normally, just like they do with GS3. Also Nokia didn't sell a ton of unit even at $99 on contract for the Lumia 900.
    HerfDurf likes this.
  22. jdevenberg's Avatar
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    #197  

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    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols View Post
    RIM doesn't determine the on contract price, the carriers do. Carriers offer gret subsidies on the iPhone to hit the $200 sweet spot. Even though a GS3 is cheaper MSRP than iPhone, on contract price is $200 normally. I bet if RIM set the price at $499 then carriers would still charge $200 on contract normally, just like they do with GS3. Also Nokia didn't sell a ton of unit even at $99 on contract for the Lumia 900.
    True that Nokia didn't sell a ton of units, but they sold way more than any other Windows Phone to that point. It was also shot in the foot by the announcement two months after its launch that it wouldn't be getting Windows Phone 8. The 920 is selling relatively well and is using the same approach. If RIM wanted to, they could make deals with the carriers to get a $99 contract price, just like Nokia had to.

    The main point is that no new ecosystem has gotten huge by charging what the top dogs charge. Android didn't take off until it had a ton of cheap options available. Nokia's Lumia line, which is by far the best selling Windows Phones, are priced below their competition at every speck level. RIM has to do the same if they want to succeed, at least in the USA. In other countries where their name is still strong, they may be able to charge more, again, just like Nokia does.
  23. michadam's Avatar
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    #198  

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    iPhone 5 $599 no way to Change battyery, no memory slot. Wtf

    Used the new bb10 yesterday I blows iPhone away. (Personal experience) I want mine now! R&D amazing.

    Imagine staying in the 6th floor of a motel and your friend is on the 5th floor, but to see him you have to take the elevator to the lobby every time, that is what all other phones I have seen are like. BB10 faster and more efficient.
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    #199  

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    Quote Originally Posted by narci View Post
    Specs only matter to android users because it's essentially the same android OS across many different pieces of hardware.

    You don't hear android users say to each other that their OS is better then each others.
    Thank You for pointing this out. I know several android users waiting to switch to BB10 none bothered to ask for specs they just like the OS. I showed my cousin BB10, she used to own a BB and now owns a iphone and is planning to get the iPhone5, she was instantly impressed w/ bb10 and didn't bother to ask specs. We can't apply how we think to everyone and say if BB10 doesn't go the Android way of specs they won't sell well.
  25. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    #200  

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    Specs matter to everybody, even to iPhone buyers. Forget the iPhone 5, and concentrate on the iPhone 4S and the iPhone 4 for a minute. Take out Siri, and what are the differences between the two? Physically, they're virtually identical. The 4S though has a dual core processor and a better camera. If specs didn't matter, everybody would just opt for the iPhone 4 because of its cheaper price.

    How does Samsung market its stuff against the iPhone? They compare specs. They say how much faster its processor is, how much bigger the screen is, how it has stuff like NFC that iPhone doesn't have. The Galaxy S3 was a phenomenal success for Samsung this year, at times outselling the iPhone. Something they did must have worked.... maybe it was beefing up the specs.

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