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  1. TomJasper's Avatar
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    #101  

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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    It was not 'underpowered' when it came out. Also, give some examples of things it can't do or is inhibited by it's "lack of power"
    samadkins29 - YouTube High five RubberChicken76.
  2. Gla1ze's Avatar
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    #102  

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    Quite frankly, we don't know what are the final specs and price of the Z10, so I think it's wise to argue only after we get that info ! We also don't know what it's battery life will be like as well as it's performance compared to other devices !!!
  3. Saiga's Avatar
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    #103  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeberry View Post
    what?? I am not sure but doesn't the Snapdragon S4 rumoured in BB 10 powers the Lumia 920, "bond" phone Xperia V and HTC 8X?? hardly low end, let alone ultra low end. The Stellar is probably low end (still won't call it ultra low end) because of "low end" screen, camera and the famous Samsung build quality
    Why didn't you quote the rest of what I put? And how exactly was what I said wrong?

    I said the dual core Snapdragon S4 powers ultra low end phones now and it does. Google it.

    You can say whatever you want, but the dual core S4 does indeed power entry level smartphones now. That is a easily proven fact. Free on contract phones use the Snapdragon S4. Re-read that last sentence. I don't care what other phones use it. The fact remains, that the S4 now powers a few of the cheapest, low-end smartphones available today. Did it make sense that time or are you still confused about it?

    Just because Sony, Nokia and HTC are still pimping the dual core S4 doesn't change the fact that other manufactures slap that same CPU in their cheapest devices. How well are Sony, Nokia and HTC doing in the smartphone business again?
  4. Unbiased Tech's Avatar
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    #104  

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    I get your point on price point but I have something for you to consider. It's all about the operating system and the engine running under it. The iPhone is smooth and their os runs smooth on older devices. Sure the OS itself may leave a lot to be desired but you can't deny the great ux those devices offer. Another example is WP. They ran on single cores and we're incredibly smooth and fluid devices, but their specs couldn't compare to top androids yet the "Smoked by Windows Phone challenge" was a success as far as the results go. And to conclude, just what about the specs are not high end enough? By launch its gonna have a screen top ten in pixel density, best html5 scores, based on the 4G lte playbook's benchmarks you could a bb10 device to have best in class benchmarks, great features, smooth experience, 1080p video output, and a decent battery. The special sheets have been leaked enough that I don't want to go down the list but the specs are definitely on par with current flagship phones. Oh and if you want the specs to compete against the GSIV, iPhone 5s, HTC X ++, the new razrs, new nexus, new wp phones, and other 2013 flagships, the Aristotle will be there competing neck and neck spec wise.
  5. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    #105  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeberry View Post
    what?? I am not sure but doesn't the Snapdragon S4 rumoured in BB 10 powers the Lumia 920, "bond" phone Xperia V and HTC 8X?? hardly low end, let alone ultra low end. The Stellar is probably low end (still won't call it ultra low end) because of "low end" screen, camera and the famous Samsung build quality
    There's S4 Plus, and there's S4 Pro, AKA 8064. There's also S4 Prime, but I don't know of anybody using that yet, or rather, will be using, since it's not available yet.
  6. samadkins29's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #106  

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomJasper View Post
    samadkins29 - YouTube High five RubberChicken76.
    I'm not sure why you feel the need to post good comments followed by personal attack comments. Would you like links to my ebay and steam accounts?... As for Chicken76's comments. Well, I don't need to repost that the PB was a complete fail when first released. Had a huge amount of issues and lack of being able to do simple things(lack of apps, slow hardware, etc..). The fact that RIM resealed a tablet at top dollar that was less useful than my phone really states it all. Prices plummeted and sales were never that good. But lets not get into the PB anymore. You may have had a great experience with it, good for you. I see opening a thread on CB was a huge mistake. Its like talking to apple fan boys. Even when I was starting threads about issues I was having on PB you still had the idiots saying it was me. Two months later people realized it did have major issues and filled CB with complaint threads. I dont want RIM to be Nokia, with cheap ****ty phones. I want to pay top dollar for BB, but like any smart consumer, it needs to lead in both hardware and software. Thats the point of paying a lot for a phone. My opinion on the phone can change. I saw that its now rumored to have 2GB, thats awesome. Im hoping some of the other specs get beefed up as well.
  7. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    #107  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbiased Tech View Post
    Oh and if you want the specs to compete against the GSIV, iPhone 5s, HTC X ++, the new razrs, new nexus, new wp phones, and other 2013 flagships, the Aristotle will be there competing neck and neck spec wise.
    By the time Aristo becomes available.... it will lag way behind the GS4. Next years Galaxy is most likely going to be powered by the next generation ARM architecture, Cortex A-15, which offers a 40% performance increase over current generation A-9 cores at same speeds. Why won't RIM be using same CPU? Probably because Samsung will produce them exclusively for themselves. TSMC will be busy like they always are. That doesn't leave many fabs capable of producing 28nm chips at quantity that do not have their production under contract.

    It's all good though. Since BB10 is so efficient, it doesn't need the extra power boost from Cortex A-15.
  8. samadkins29's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #108  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    By the time Aristo becomes available.... it will lag way behind the GS4.
    Thats why those specs should be in the z10. Amazing specs complete with a blazing fast UI. Thats what will win back customers for RIM.
  9. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    #109  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    The Nexus line and it's price point will never really be matched. It's an exception to the norm. What you're saying could pretty much be applied to any phone out there being sold.

    "Why buy <insert device> when I can get a Nexus for $349"

    Google can get away with it because their revenue isn't found in the sale price of the hardware.
    Xiaomi 2 has very similar specs to the N4. The main difference is that is has a 4.3" screen, but compensates by offering more storage starting at 16GB. It sells for about $320. The Lenovo K860 has similar specs to the Samsung GS3, but has a slightly larger screen at 5". It sells for about $345. Both companies rely on hardware sales for their revenues. That basically means it's quite possible to sell a high end phone for $350 or less and make a profit. It's up to the companies to decide whether they want to go that route.

    The Z10 has very similar hardware to the Xiaomi 1S, which sells for about $240 for 1.7Ghz, or $210 for 1.5Ghz.
    samadkins29 likes this.
  10. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    #110  

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    Quote Originally Posted by samadkins29 View Post
    Thats why those specs should be in the z10. Amazing specs complete with a blazing fast UI. Thats what will win back customers for RIM.
    No. Having apps will win customers back. Specs will be an after thought if RIM can manage to get the devices in peoples hands to try out. In order to that though, the apps need to be there. You know who really cares about specs? Android users. That's about it. Windows Phone users talk more about how the OS works with the given hardware, same with iOS users. Heck, just look at the reference points in this thread alone -- most of them are Android.

    Nexus 4, SGS3, Xiaomi, SGS4, Sony Xperia, LG, HTC <-- All Android devices mentioned.

    And we all know iOS runs on minimal hardware because of how the OS is built. Only recently has Apple been more forthcoming with their use of spec terms.

    In the end, it's a pretty simple scenario. If you don't like it.. don't buy it.
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  11. samadkins29's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #111  

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    Windows phone is not taking off anytime soon and Iphone, well your pretty much stuck with it. Iphone users do complain about specs but still continue to buy it anyways, not because its good, but because the have this mind set that no other phone works. I didnt mention apps since I assume RIM was going to take care of that when they released the developer units and pushed hard on selling BB10. For the last time specs can a do matter. Just because windows 7 runs just fine on a Athlon 64, doesn't mean im going to trade in my current desktop for it. Basically what your saying is that its OK to have last years hardware simply because the OS is streamlined.
  12. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    #112  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    Xiaomi 2 has very similar specs to the N4. The main difference is that is has a 4.3" screen, but compensates by offering more storage starting at 16GB. It sells for about $320. The Lenovo K860 has similar specs to the Samsung GS3, but has a slightly larger screen at 5". It sells for about $345. Both companies rely on hardware sales for their revenues. That basically means it's quite possible to sell a high end phone for $350 or less and make a profit. It's up to the companies to decide whether they want to go that route.

    The Z10 has very similar hardware to the Xiaomi 1S, which sells for about $240 for 1.7Ghz, or $210 for 1.5Ghz.
    True. Lemme know when you see either of those outside of Asia that isn't in the hands of a tech blogger though, lol.
    Answers are easy. It's asking the right questions which is hard. - The Doctor

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  13. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    #113  

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    Quote Originally Posted by samadkins29 View Post
    For the last time specs can a do matter. Just because windows 7 runs just fine on a Athlon 64, doesn't mean im going to trade in my current desktop for it. Basically what your saying is that its OK to have last years hardware simply because the OS is streamlined.
    They matter to you and like I said, if you don't like it -- don't buy it. Simple.

    If you really want to get down to the nitty gritty, do you really think RIM isn't aware of that? The Z10 was built out 2012..it was supposed to release in 2012.. that's why the specs are what they are. If it upsets you THAT much, wait 6-7 months.

    You can say it a million times over, complain about it a million times over but it's not going to change anything at this stage. The devices are built, awaiting shipment and locked down.
    Answers are easy. It's asking the right questions which is hard. - The Doctor

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    lboogie_1971_ likes this.
  14. samadkins29's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #114  

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    Android turn four, hits 75% market share | News | TechRadar

    Tell me again how you were saying to not compare it to Android phones. Android doesn't have to worry about market share so they compete over specs. RIM is in a good position to win some of the market back, but not with over priced hardware. If specs don't matter to you then so be it. Nothing I can say will a change that. I will admit that I was wrong in starting a thread about unconfirmed specs. I was just a little taken aback when the specs were listed on CB. They seem shoddy for a phone that we all know RIM will put a nice huge price tag on.
  15. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    #115  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    True. Lemme know when you see either of those outside of Asia that isn't in the hands of a tech blogger though, lol.
    It'll happen in 2013. Xiaomi has plans to go into Europe. Lenovo is already selling outside of China, with plans to start expanding to western markets.
  16. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    #116  

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    Quote Originally Posted by samadkins29 View Post
    Android turn four, hits 75% market share | News | TechRadar

    Tell me again how you were saying to not compare it to Android phones. Android doesn't have to worry about market share so they compete over specs. RIM is in a good position to win some of the market back, but not with over priced hardware. If specs don't matter to you then so be it. Nothing I can say will a change that. I will admit that I was wrong in starting a thread about unconfirmed specs. I was just a little taken aback when the specs were listed on CB. They seem shoddy for a phone that we all know RIM will put a nice huge price tag on.
    Funny thing is.. I don't necessarily disagree with you. I agree, the specs should be higher but at the same time, I also realize what the first devices are. They're 2012 devices and that's RIM's problem. Consumers will speak with their wallets if they find the hardware not up to snuff. However, I also believe that for some specs won't be such a concern once they see how the OS reacts to what it is given. Problem is, getting the devices in the hands of consumers to fully realize that fact. Which of course, leads back to the bigger problem -- apps. If they're not there, then that overrules specs entirely.
    Answers are easy. It's asking the right questions which is hard. - The Doctor

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  17. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    #117  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    It'll happen in 2013. Xiaomi has plans to go into Europe. Lenovo is already selling outside of China, with plans to start expanding to western markets.
    I hope so.. I'm rather sick of giving Samsung money.. ha!
    Answers are easy. It's asking the right questions which is hard. - The Doctor

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  18. ILUMINATIUNDEAD's Avatar
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    #118  

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    " Ended up getting a Galaxy Nexus for $349 to hold me over. " hold me over? Haha it sounds like your so hungry you ate a cracker so you'll just survive. Relax!
    Ask for my pin!
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  19. samadkins29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    The Z10 was built out 2012..it was supposed to release in 2012.. .
    And if it was released in Q3 2012, you would not have heard a peep from me. Would have bought it outright, no matter the price tag. RIM has a history of releasing hardware behind the current trend. Its NOT working for them. I will agree with you on the apps aspect. Although when I ask other android users and iphone users how many apps they use, it almost always hardly any (not including games). They seem sto steer away from BB because of the lack of apps, regardless of whether they would use said app or not. So I do get your point.
  20. samadkins29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILUMINATIUNDEAD View Post
    " Ended up getting a Galaxy Nexus for $349 to hold me over. " hold me over? Haha it sounds like your so hungry you ate a cracker so you'll just survive. Relax!
    I felt like that. The Galax Nexus although its a nice phone, is not what I want to be using. Having only used BB apart from this Nexus, im eagerly awaiting the comeback of BB.
  21. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    No. Having apps will win customers back. Specs will be an after thought if RIM can manage to get the devices in peoples hands to try out. In order to that though, the apps need to be there. You know who really cares about specs? Android users. That's about it. Windows Phone users talk more about how the OS works with the given hardware, same with iOS users. Heck, just look at the reference points in this thread alone -- most of them are Android.
    RIM's best chance is with people who don't yet own a smartphone. Even in the US, almost 50% don't use a smartphone yet. It's much easier to win over a new virgin customer than one that's already entrenched in an ecosystem.

    Specs matter because that's the what the sale staff will push the devices with. Most lay people have no idea what differentiates the various platforms, and what makes one better than another, and sales staff will find phone specs much easier to explain. It's much easier to explain how 1.7Ghz is better than 1.2Ghz than trying to explain how something like Peek works. Even a non-techie can easily understand a quad core is better is better than a dual core. If a smartphone newbie sees one phone with a dual core, and another with quad core, both at the same price.... it's a much easier decision to just go with the quad core.

    Perhaps specs don't matter to the general usability of a phone, but to the customer, they matter, because it's what differentiates them.
  22. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    RIM's best chance is with people who don't yet own a smartphone. Even in the US, almost 50% don't use a smartphone yet. It's much easier to win over a new virgin customer than one that's already entrenched in an ecosystem.

    Specs matter because that's the what the sale staff will push the devices with. Most lay people have no idea what differentiates the various platforms, and what makes one better than another, and sales staff will find phone specs much easier to explain. It's much easier to explain how 1.7Ghz is better than 1.2Ghz than trying to explain how something like Peek works. Even a non-techie can easily understand a quad core is better is better than a dual core. If a smartphone newbie sees one phone with a dual core, and another with quad core, both at the same price.... it's a much easier decision to just go with the quad core.

    Perhaps specs don't matter to the general usability of a phone, but to the customer, they matter, because it's what differentiates them.
    If I didn't own a Dev Alpha, I would fully agree with this.. but you know what.. everyone who I have showed the Dev Alpha to even in it's cobbled form.. is amazed with it, wants to play with it, wants to try taking photos with it, wants to try the keyboard.. you know what they don't ask though? A single damn thing about specs. I've showed it to Best Buy employees, Future Shop employees, Rogers/Bell/Telus employees, The Source employees.. Friends, Family and a good many folks who have long since moved on from BlackBerry.. pretty much anyone who asks about it and... nothing. Not a single question about specs. And I even go so far as to show them what happens when an app does crash, I tossed a bunch of crap code into cascades so folks can see how gracefully an app crashes, should it crash.

    Most people just wanna know one thing. "So... am I gonna see that damn black clock any more?" lol.
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  23. Roo Zilla's Avatar
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    #123  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    Funny thing is.. I don't necessarily disagree with you. I agree, the specs should be higher but at the same time, I also realize what the first devices are. They're 2012 devices and that's RIM's problem. Consumers will speak with their wallets if they find the hardware not up to snuff. However, I also believe that for some specs won't be such a concern once they see how the OS reacts to what it is given. Problem is, getting the devices in the hands of consumers to fully realize that fact. Which of course, leads back to the bigger problem -- apps. If they're not there, then that overrules specs entirely.
    The smartphone business model is rapidly changing. Even as recently as a year ago, a small maker could order components about 60-90 days in advance. Rapid growth in smartphone sales have left small makers out of the loop so to speak, as chips makers can't keep up. Now, you have to order almost 180 days in advance. Unless you have your own fab or a relationship, it leaves you begging for scraps. It's quite possible RIM wanted to use better specs, but 6 months ago, nobody was taking orders for anything better or their production run was already spoken for. Add that to the fact that phone design also takes a bit of time, and all of a sudden, you're looking at a 9 month lag behind your competitors.

    Even in China, you can't get a Xiaomi 2 phone if you wanted to. It's a small company, about 3 million units sold in twelve months spanning 2011-2012. It's sold out and the waitlist is months long. Although some people think the shortage is artificial. I haven't been able to confirm either way.
  24. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roo Zilla View Post
    The smartphone business model is rapidly changing. Even as recently as a year ago, a small maker could order components about 60-90 days in advance. Rapid growth in smartphone sales have left small makers out of the loop so to speak, as chips makers can't keep up. Now, you have to order almost 180 days in advance. Unless you have your own fab or a relationship, it leaves you begging for scraps. It's quite possible RIM wanted to use better specs, but 6 months ago, nobody was taking orders for anything better or their production run was already spoken for. Add that to the fact that phone design also takes a bit of time, and all of a sudden, you're looking at a 9 month lag behind your competitors.

    Even in China, you can't get a Xiaomi 2 phone if you wanted to. It's sold out and the waitlist is months long. Although some people think the shortage is artificial. I haven't been able to confirm either way.
    Which is also one of the key reasons Apple has started touting their specs more.. they like to lay claim to the Apple AXX chips when everyone who cares to know, knows Samsung runs that ship. It helps create the vision that Apple is under control of all things when they're not as much as they'd love to be. Though, no one can deny they have their supply chain pretty tight.

    (Good chattin fells, peace out though -- bed time. Have a happy holidays)
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    #125  

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJM626 View Post
    Is BB still popular in Australia? Always wondered about that
    It used to be. Not so much now. I think they have less than 1% market share here now.
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