- 12-22-12, 07:21 AM #51
I can make a cake for a couple of pounds, but then there's my time, my expertise and I would have to make enough to make a living from it. Selling it for £2.50 is making a profit, but it's not a viable profit.
- 12-22-12, 08:44 AM #53
- 12-22-12, 10:01 AM #57
How can you be unimpressed with rumour specs and prices??
The way the market has been steadily moving, specs are not everything. The only one that has been pushing out top tier specs is Samsung and Android still lags on it. Specs aren't everything and prices remain to be seen.
- 12-22-12, 10:04 AM #58
Ahh, the legendary "specs" debate. I suppose if you have to have the latest possible high end specs, this isn't the phone for you.
Then again, a lot of these phones seem to be upping the arms race for the sake of upping the arms race vs. a benefit to consumers.
"Here's an 8 core, LTE, 1080p, 600 PPI, 9" screen Smartphone with 16 GB of ram. And we've got a 60 megapixel camera too!
But the battery goes for an hour and a half and the apps will look the same as on other devices. Plus your eyes won't actually see a difference on the screen and the 60 megapixel camera will share photos to Facebook in the same quality as the 2 megapixel camera you used to have.
In the end, it won't matter. Samsung and Apple will make money, most of the other Android phone makers will have shrinking gross margins and that will be that"
I'm more interested in it being snappy, lasting a day and running competitive apps. If they can get that out of a dual core device, I'm fine with a dual core device.
- 12-22-12, 10:14 AM #59
- 12-22-12, 11:00 AM #60
I feel as though smartphone hardware specs have reached a plateau and Apple capitalized on that with the iPhone 5 - while the processor and wireless connectivity have marked improvements, they essentially made the device thinner and lighter. Their user experience remains the industry gold standard and they have every third party app that consumers care about.
If the rumored specs deliver the experience RIM is gunning for with BB10 and they are able to get the essential apps on board, I think they can get away with a $500-$550 price point.
- CrackBerry Newbie
12-22-12, 11:02 AM #62
- 3 Posts
What Specs , when were they released by RIM , as yet to find it anywhere . Amazing the BB bashers are in full swing , the only RIM downside is the children cant separate the past with the future . RIM is no longer the same company on 2011 , not even close and the NEW CEO has kept every promise since coming on board and yet many still refer RIM to the old days . I am not sure though did Apple get the same treatment back in the 90s when they were days aways from Chapter 11
- CrackBerry User
12-22-12, 11:06 AM #63
- 43 Posts
Well Google has been selling the specs card heavily the past years and well I am unimpressed.
Sorry to say android is a lower quality OS and regardless of how much they blow up the specs its not gonna be any more than mediocre.
Mr Jobs has proved this point again and again, remember for example even the latest and faster iphones have only 512k ram.
If bb10 is the software its supposed to be and there are no glitses then it's gonna be Apple vs RIM vs MS.
- 12-22-12, 11:32 AM #68
- CrackBerry Abuser
12-22-12, 11:54 AM #69
- 406 Posts
I look at things from a marketing perspective. RIM is not a new player in the game. They have been around for years and as a result have earned a brand reputation that they are trying to over come. I'd say it's safe to say that most of us who read the CrackBerry forums are in North America. Lets look at this debate from a brand perception in the North American Market perspective.
RIM has pretty much lost all credibility in North America due to some blunders of the last 3 years or so. If you've ever taken marketing, there is a general rule that it costs 5 time more to win a customer back that has left your then to gain a new one. So in North America, RIM has an up hill battle.
What are some of the perceptions that are in the heads of former RIM customers about BlackBerry phones?
OS looks like crap. That is already an out of date perception, but these people left around OS 5 so they have a point.
Hardware sucks. RIM has an image of being WAY behind the curve on hardware. People use the word "old" to describe BlackBerry allot.
No apps. We know RIM will address this problem wiht BB 10.
RIM needs every advantage it can give it's self out of the gate with BB 10. Hardware is the one area I have no faith at all in Thorsten. He was the hardware guy at RIM that led the downhill side after the Bold 9000. He is not forward thinking on hardware at all.
People who have left RIM are going to notice BB 10. They are going to hear what the reviewers say about it. The experience might be great but if the hardware is "last year" they will write it off and assume that it's the same old RIM that never learns. It really is much harder to win back a customer that has left then it is to get a new one. Customers who left will shy away at the slightest hint that the company is the same as they remember.
The Java OS compounded people's perception of lack luster hardware because of the memory leaks and battery pulls requirement. We know BB 10 is a different animal entirely and does not require top end hardware, but the people who left BlackBerry don't. They will hear the hardware is so last year in a review and assume that the new OS will freeze up and require a battery pull every day.
So from a marketing perspective, it's not about what the OS needs to run smooth, it's the fact that RIM needs to overcome potential win back customers perceptions about BlackBerry and if they came out of the gate with 2013 specs then it would be one less hurdle for them to over come. We don't even know if the Aristo is ever going to come to market. But we do know that the Z10 and X10 will. These phones will make the first impression for BB 10 and they need to get them right because the impression of BlackBerry right now is not good in many developed markets.
There are going to be amazing next generation phones announced before BlackBerry 10 at CES and just a few days after BlackBerry 10 at MWC in Feb. So RIM may think that there is no noise in Q1 but there are major industry events where companies like HTC, Sony, Samsung, Motorola etc announce some impressive new gear.
RIM can't survive if it only sells phones to us BlackBerry loyalists. The reason I wish the specs were better is simply because I want RIM to have every possible advantage in gaining back former customers in developed markets who won't look twice at BB 10 if they hear that RIM still hasn't learned to be an innovator in hardware. If they think RIM is still behind and playing catch up they won't come back. Especially with all the delays, RIM should have come out of the gate swinging with hardware that will set the bar for everyone else in 2013.
- 12-22-12, 12:15 PM #71
- 12-22-12, 12:22 PM #72
Also, quad-core does not mean its better than dual core. You have to look at the quality of the chip used. The new HTC X+ is using a Tegra quad-core processor, and according to most reviews any performance boost is hardly noticeable, but battery life is signifantly worse. Also the iPhone 5 with its dual-core a6 chip gets higher geek bench scores than the quad core exinos in the GS3, while also getting better life with a smaller phone. A lot goes into what makes a good processor, you can't just look at cores as much as you can't look at ghz. You have to look at the whole package and have software that can fully utilize it, and believe RIM will do that.
- 12-22-12, 01:13 PM #73
She would do the SAME exact thing if she had a BBZ10. She doesn't love the S3 for the specs, but for the experience. Large screen, smooth UI, quality camera.....You can't really say that about any blackberry....you can say it about the Playbook, but not any BB.
And that is what RIM needs to capture, I sent a few of my friends that video where a guy is "kidnapped" and forced to use BB10 with one hand while tied to a chair in under 30 seconds. They saw the phone, looked sleek, they noticed the UI (Notice how I don't say OS...because it isn't the OS it is the experience, is the phone clean, are transitions smooth, does it make sense, when I am stuck/frustrated, is it simple to go back or do something different) and the LARGE SCREEN (no pictures were really shown, but people equate large screens with great pics....again something the Storm didn't really have either)
Look, electronics are a cut throat industry, let us be clear about that. RIM has caught up in the experience platform, and possibly even surpassed IOS and Samsung. IOS isn't an amazing OS, its marketed as a phone for people who are too stupid to use a phone, and it works. Now BB10 will be marketed, or should be, as the OS of the present and future. Once you use a PB/BB10...you will think to yourself....why am I using buttons on my phone to do this function? Why doesn't everything have this feature? I have a PB, and sometimes when I use my cars touchscreen, or even my torch I touch it like a PB. Because a playbook is so intuitive. The UI rocks, it has set a new precedence that others will soon have to copy, all that needs to happen now is marketing (another thing RIM doesn't do well if at all)
Did you hear that? This OS is amazing, this phone will sell itself! They just have to release it, they got to get it online with the youtube clips and in peoples hands at stores. Do you know why RIM can't sell direct? Because no store HAS a BB. Seriously, I went to 8 different stores and asked for a 9900. None of them had one, 6 stores didn't even have BB in their kiosk. So now tell me, besides BB loyalists...who will buy a BB if they have never used one, or even seen one in a store??!??!
RIM will be smart to distance itself from its past, the only thing they should talk about are the current BB and the PB, because honestly, they don't have many flaws. Now they have to make sure that 1. They have apps for people and 2. they don't miss another release date!!!!
Now go forth, and send a friend or two of yours videos like this
BlackBerry 10 Camera: A Closer Look - YouTube
keep it short (no 14 minute lectures) and to the point, and instead of telling them, allow them to see with their own eyes.
The PB is prime example of an under power unit with a nice UI. Lets not get into its sales figures.... If your still wondering why no store stocks BB, its because the current phone line up is over priced. Thats RIM's fault not the stores. RIM could make a killing selling direct online and in electronics stores if the price point is right. When you have a company that's not doing so hot right now, the point is to get your phone into as many hands as possible. Consumers want unlocked/unbranded phones. TMO is planning to drop all subsidized phone prices and plans, a move I fully back. How well do you think computers would sell is they were locked into only one internet provider. "Enjoy your new DELL/Comcast internet computer" LOL
- CrackBerry Master
12-22-12, 01:51 PM #75
- 1,291 Posts
I think some analysts have "to market" priced the Z10 at between $400-$450, the actual cost of getting a phone into someone's hands. That includes the actual coast of the unit in parts, assembly, marketing, distribution, carrier support and all other costs. Knowing the price of a bunch of parts means nothing and only tells part of the story of getting a product into the stores especially when each manufacturer's costs are different for all levels of the marketing chain.
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