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  1. BBThemes's Avatar
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    #26  

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    yes people, a product is worth what the parts cost, and thats it. no, forget about the people paid to put it together, those who have spent alot of time designing the hardware, coding the software, all the r+d and shipping too, that stuff doesnt cost anything...........meanwhile, in the real world, it does cost to employ people!!! shocker

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  2. Specwire's Avatar
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    I think the price is on par with the competition, as are the specs.

    However specs tell a small part of the story. Android phones on paper look very good, but the experience and OS fluidity is always suspect compared to iOS and Windows Phone 8.

    From the looks of BB10, it runs fast and lean like a mobile OS should, so I would expect good performance and user experience which is really what matters most.
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  3. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    #28  

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    The biggest problem IMHO, is that its last years hardware (when it'll be released).

    Quad core CPUs and 1080p screens is going to be the new baseline for premium phones, we will see several models with those specs at Mobile World congress which is a few weeks away, and they might be on the market already when the L series come out.

    When RIM settled on the hardware, the L series was still supposed to come out in 2012, so the delay is unfortunate. It means that it unfortunately isn't as cutting edge as some would like.

    Don't get me wrong, there is a huge pent up demand for them (among BB fans at least).

    But what about the rest of the potential customers? At the price point RIM is aiming for, customers will be able to get a quad core 1080p phone with twice the resolution and twice the horsepower/CPUs. That might be a tough sale...
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  4. samadkins29's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #29  

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    Quote Originally Posted by crackcookie View Post
    Yes we all have been waiting, you make it sound like it came out but your stores are all sold out or something. Anyway, your whole point is moot because you talk about specs....who gets things for specs? Quick, what are the specs of your car/microwave/****/pants/watch/tv/video game system and their next two direct competitors? And why is it that people only talk about specs with phones, as said before, it is about the OS and the experience not the specs. I could drive a Range Rover that has higher specs than my Rav-4. But does a bigger engine and more expensive type of gas result in a better experience for me? Do sports cars that ride so low to the ground you can't see around them with powerful engines that drown out the radio result in a better experience?

    At what spec points will you be satisfied? How many megapixels, cores, and pixels does RIM need to put into their phone to please you? Seriously, what is the magic number? Does it have to be higher than someone else? Cuz, if that is the case, then when that phone is put in production, tested, marketed, and shipped....it will already be obsolete.

    Thoughts.....you need to do more thinking. Close more apps, use the browser more often, and buy phones on contract to save more money. The Nexus is an exception to the rule, and if you can afford that, you could easily afford a BB10 phone...and also, how much do you think it cost to make an S3? A Note 2? An i5? Do you think their silicon chips come from Mars, do you think their harddrives are from somewhere else besides Thailand?

    Do you know that just about everything you buy in life is marked up, be it for pure profit, or because someone has done work for you, testing, marketing.....people are here to make money, not give you money.
    Obviously I hit a nerve with you or something. Anyone who is smart will look at specs when buying technology. I don't just go and throw my money at any old tv or laptop or tablet. I know most of the specs to my car and all of them to my computer (I dont know if thats weird in todays society), but your right, I dont know the thread count on my jeans.... Driving a Range Rover over your Rav-4 would definitely be a better experience. But hey, maybe you should write to Range Rover and tell them that technology doesn't need to get better and that they should just put in all the tech from your Rav -4 and slap a Range Rover badge on it. I think they could have chosen to go with a faster cpu and put in 2gb of ram. The screen is nice, and the OS looks solid. But thats just my opinion. It was also my opinion that the play book was over priced. Im not trying to attack RIM, but I just hope that the phone is reasonably priced. Every company needs to make profit. But Apple has become notorious for overpricing hardware. I just dont want RIM to do the same. Obviously it cost to produce units as well as the design and creation of BB10, but I think RIM will do best if they just sell direct. Same profit for them, lower price for consumers, and the phone company still gets your subscription every month. Please dont get me wrong and assume Im saying they cant make a profit. But profit and price gouging are two completely different things.
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  5. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RECOOL View Post
    .But here we talking about phones that our replaced yearly you cant swap parts out for new graphic card ,change the fan etc.Phones have no need for silly specs they need to just be working really well its main focus is communication.Have people forgot this I dont know people talk like they use their phone for everything and every minute as if its their laptop/pc on that small screen its not believable for.What you need quad core and the like? What kind of programs you need on your phone that demaned high end specs?? facebook ,netflix games??
    There's this new kind of phone out, you might have heard about it... It's called a Smartphone, and is so much more than just a simple communication tool. It's a whole computer, that fits in your pocket!
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    #31  

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    Some of these other platforms better start thinking about innovation, if that is the case. BB is going to set standards for a lot of people as far as the O/S is concerned. If the only thing some people think about is more power, faster CPU's, Quad cores and the like, they are going to fall into the same category as Apple is right now with their stale O/S, and each time a new model is introduced the only thing that will change is some of the internal features, such as CPU's, batteries, quad core etc, and up will go the price tag. People will think they are getting something totally new, when in reality they are only making a few hardware changes, which a lot don't know the difference anyhow. One can say the same about PC's too. I used to overclock my CPU on my pc when I owned one, and I had more crashes running it faster then when it was stock. Fast doesn't always mean better. It's the smoothness of it and the over all performance. Just saying. Especially since cell phones are becoming more like pocket computers in general
    Last edited by DJM626; 12-22-2012 at 02:41 PM.
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  7. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    "They are going to fall into the same category as Apple"

    What the heck are you talking about? Who are they? And how are they going to fall into the same category as Apple? Do you know somebody who manufactures their own smartphones?!?

    And for what it's worth, I think you're pretty lonely with the opinion that iOS is "stale"... Either most people feel differently, or they just don't care, as the iPhone once again outsold the competition in the smartphone market in the US. Sales in Europe and China also beat previous records. So there is nothing that indicates that customers are looking for something new and untraditional.,,
  8. samadkins29's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #33  

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    People only buy the next iphone because of the hardware change from the previous version. The iOS is solid and BB10 can be a solid OS for Blackberry. But dont think that hardware doesnt need to be kept up to date. Iphone kills on sales (over priced as it may be).
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  9. crackcookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samadkins29 View Post
    Obviously I hit a nerve with you or something. Anyone who is smart will look at specs when buying technology. I don't just go and throw my money at any old tv or laptop or tablet. I know most of the specs to my car and all of them to my computer (I dont know if thats weird in todays society), but your right, I dont know the thread count on my jeans.... Driving a Range Rover over your Rav-4 would definitely be a better experience. But hey, maybe you should write to Range Rover and tell them that technology doesn't need to get better and that they should just put in all the tech from your Rav -4 and slap a Range Rover badge on it. I think they could have chosen to go with a faster cpu and put in 2gb of ram. The screen is nice, and the OS looks solid. But thats just my opinion. It was also my opinion that the play book was over priced. Im not trying to attack RIM, but I just hope that the phone is reasonably priced. Every company needs to make profit. But Apple has become notorious for overpricing hardware. I just dont want RIM to do the same. Obviously it cost to produce units as well as the design and creation of BB10, but I think RIM will do best if they just sell direct. Same profit for them, lower price for consumers, and the phone company still gets your subscription every month. Please dont get me wrong and assume Im saying they cant make a profit. But profit and price gouging are two completely different things.
    IF RIM sells direct....directly to who? Who would walk into a RIM store? In Detroit, we have the only RIM store in America, and I don't mean a RIM store that is part of an airport or mall, I mean the only stand alone RIM store. NOOOOO ONE goes inside of it, in fact, the news paper did an article here 6 months ago about how it needs to be closed down because everyone else goes to the mall and the Apple store is always packed, even when they don't release anything. Or the Sprint/ATT/whatever store always has customers.

    RIM isn't Google if you haven't noticed and they cannot do things that Google can do. If they could, they would have a car driving around the world mapping it out and do a lot more. No on wants RIM products to be expensive, we would love them to be cheaper but I always equate RIM to Nintendo. Nintendos competition can do things it cannot, simply because Nintendo only makes video games and consoles. The moment the DS and Wii fail to sustain the company, the company fails to exist and must start selling assets. Sony sells electronics and MS computers.

    Look at RIM, what do they sell.....phones. Apple sells music, computers, and all that jazz, MS too, Google does just about everything. These companies would be fine if their phones sold for a loss or didn't sell at all. RIM just can't do that. Do you honestly think people want to walk into a RIM store and plunk down a few hundred for a phone, when they could get a phone for less at their carriers?
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  10. baolam86's Avatar
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    #35  

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    Quote Originally Posted by aragone79 View Post
    truly, Z10 is not top of the top smartphone spec. But Z10 brings smartphone meaning back to the origin.

    I always say that I ever try London. the spec is still out of nowhere if you compare it with Nexus 4. But, don't question about it's overall performance.

    You cannot find the simplicity, the easy to use, and truly liquid OS from others. BB10 is straight to the point. I don't see any widget there, but the apps itself is the widget for itself.

    Don't need the shortcut since you can jump into the page where the app exist.

    If Z10 price is USD 600, I still want to buy it. If I cannot afford it by cash, I can afford it by credit.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9360 using Tapatalk

    Many people can shell out over $ 800 for a brand new iphone. Heck, ill even shell out that much for the whole new experience.

    Btw, Most of mobile apps are not heavy like PC apps so it is not too heavy for dual cores to process all the data execution. In my case, i practically haven't seen any app that are over 1GB. A smooth OS helps a lot, this is why iphone doesn't need quad core and still being sold like hot cake. A liquid OS like BB10 surely doesn't need quad cores if you have been watching those video.
    Any way, you pay what you get. People willing to pay for new experience and you want to pay for higher specs. Sorry if RIM disappointed you :9
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  11. baolam86's Avatar
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    #36  

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    Quote Originally Posted by crackcookie View Post
    IF RIM sells direct....directly to who? Who would walk into a RIM store? In Detroit, we have the only RIM store in America, and I don't mean a RIM store that is part of an airport or mall, I mean the only stand alone RIM store. NOOOOO ONE goes inside of it, in fact, the news paper did an article here 6 months ago about how it needs to be closed down because everyone else goes to the mall and the Apple store is always packed, even when they don't release anything. Or the Sprint/ATT/whatever store always has customers.

    RIM isn't Google if you haven't noticed and they cannot do things that Google can do. If they could, they would have a car driving around the world mapping it out and do a lot more. No on wants RIM products to be expensive, we would love them to be cheaper but I always equate RIM to Nintendo. Nintendos competition can do things it cannot, simply because Nintendo only makes video games and consoles. The moment the DS and Wii fail to sustain the company, the company fails to exist and must start selling assets. Sony sells electronics and MS computers.

    Look at RIM, what do they sell.....phones. Apple sells music, computers, and all that jazz, MS too, Google does just about everything. These companies would be fine if their phones sold for a loss or didn't sell at all. RIM just can't do that. Do you honestly think people want to walk into a RIM store and plunk down a few hundred for a phone, when they could get a phone for less at their carriers?
    You have a very good point. RIM doesn't have any other alternative revenue except services revenue and selling phones. Other corps has a lot more stuffs to turn profit.
  12. southlander's Avatar
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    #37  

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    It's a whole computer, that fits in your pocket!
    Yeah sort of. If you ignore all the things a real PC (a whole computer) can absolutely smoke a phone at doing.
  13. southlander's Avatar
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    #38  

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    I am not going to let ~ $150 sway my opinion IF there are no huge shortcomings on the release. As others have said, a properly engineered OS does not require top specs. iOS and Windows phone are both examples of great OS'es that work well on more modest hardware.
  14. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southlander View Post
    I am not going to let ~ $150 sway my opinion IF there are no huge shortcomings on the release. As others have said, a properly engineered OS does not require top specs. iOS and Windows phone are both examples of great OS'es that work well on more modest hardware.
    But you forget about the other advantages that quad core phones bring. Better battery life for example, than a single or dual core CPU.
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  15. baolam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    But you forget about the other advantages that quad core phones bring. Better battery life for example, than a single or dual core CPU.
    You kidding rite ? All cores share the same battery, many cores allow you to execute the instructions faster it also drain your battery faster. There is no freaking way it will save your battery life. Why do you think all of the 4.7 - 5 inches phablets with quad cores out there pack one **** of a battery ?

    Let make it simple, a V8 (quad cores) sport car sure as h*ll drinking gas much more than a V6 sport one.
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    #41  

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    Quote Originally Posted by samadkins29 View Post
    Anyone who is smart will look at specs when buying technology.
    Anyone who 'just' looks at specs when buying is anything but smart. If an OS makes a device work as smoothly with 1GB RAM as with a 3GB RAM, it doesn't make sense to have 3GB. Same with CPU.
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  17. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackcookie View Post
    Yes we all have been waiting, you make it sound like it came out but your stores are all sold out or something. Anyway, your whole point is moot because you talk about specs....who gets things for specs? Quick, what are the specs of your car/microwave/****/pants/watch/tv/video game system and their next two direct competitors? And why is it that people only talk about specs with phones, as said before, it is about the OS and the experience not the specs. I could drive a Range Rover that has higher specs than my Rav-4. But does a bigger engine and more expensive type of gas result in a better experience for me? Do sports cars that ride so low to the ground you can't see around them with powerful engines that drown out the radio result in a better experience?

    ....[SNIP]....
    I think I peed a little laughing. heh.
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    #43  

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    Quad core CPUs and 1080p screens is going to be the new baseline for premium phones, we will see several models with those specs at Mobile World congress which is a few weeks away, and they might be on the market already when the L series come out.
    There are plenty of examples both on this site and elsewhere that show quad core means precisely nothing to the performance so that is not a big deal and as far as 1080p being the baseline, that simply isn't true unless you only consider oversized 5" phones to be classed as premium phones, which seems an overly narrow view of what constitutes a premium model when it would exclude every OS that wasn't android at this point.

    The reality is that bb10 does not require excessive specs in order to perform great and if rim had wanted to get into this entirely idiotic spec arms race they would have gone with android already and in all likelihood would have been dead by now since they cannot compete with samsung as every other android manufacturer seems to be finding out give or take the few weeks when they have a higher spec model out.

    Right now the companies making any money from handsets are apple and samsung, so the challenge for rim is how to join that group and the right way for them is probably to take some of what works for apple such as controlling the entire experience to avoid the need to go mad on specs and from samsung they cannot emulate the manufacturing benefits, but can offer their products at a range of pricepoints and not simply go with one model.
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  19. fernandez21's Avatar
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    i dont get why everyone is so upset with the specs, every seems on par with other top handsets. It has a snap dragon s4, which is the best processor available at the moment in regards to speed and battery life, has a screen with over 350ppi, a powerful gpu, and lte. The only thing I could see is the 1gb RAM, would've been nice if had 2gb, but 1gb is still fine, and 16gb storage is also on the low end, but it does have an sd card slot so you can add more. Plus as others have said, as long as the software can take advantage of those specs the user experience should be fantastic.
    all smartphones are tools.
    android = 48pc tool set (you"ll eventually find the tool you need, but some assembly required)
    iphone = swiss army knife (most of the tools you need in a small, simple to use package)
    blackberry = adjustable wrench (sometimes all you need is a wrench)
    windows phone = bionic wrench (its different....but it works)
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  20. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baolam86 View Post
    You kidding rite ? All cores share the same battery, many cores allow you to execute the instructions faster it also drain your battery faster. There is no freaking way it will save your battery life. Why do you think all of the 4.7 - 5 inches phablets with quad cores out there pack one **** of a battery ?

    Let make it simple, a V8 (quad cores) sport car sure as h*ll drinking gas much more than a V6 sport one.
    I suggest you leave the car metaphors in the bar, and study electronic engineering or computer science for a couple of years. Or ask somebody who has.

    Try to google HUGS... Hurry Up Go to Sleep.
    A dual core CPU at 1 ghz can finish several tasks faster than a single core at 1.5 ghz for example, goes to sleep faster and therefore uses less power. Likewise with an 800 ghz quad core CPU compared with the 1 ghz dual core. It uses less power for the same tasks because (among other things like process difference) it goes to sleep faster.
  21. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeberry View Post
    Anyone who 'just' looks at specs when buying is anything but smart. If an OS makes a device work as smoothly with 1GB RAM as with a 3GB RAM, it doesn't make sense to have 3GB. Same with CPU.
    Yes! Lets all go out and get less more dollars! I think I have a bunch of old 1ghz pentiums in my garage I'm sure you're interested in for cheap. Why, you could just put a super efficient OS on it, and have it run as fast as a 3 ghz i3, right? Oh no?

    You assume an awful lot here. For example that BB10 is three times as efficient as Android or iOS. Nothing suggests that is the case. the Playbook wasn't particularly efficient, and nothing that I'm hearing through the grapevine from developers suggests that BB10 is even close to the miracle you try to make it out to be.

    The reality is, that its a 1.0 product, (1.5 at best) that's up against operating systems that have been optimized and finetuned for many years and many versions. If the BB10 is merely comparable in efficiency next to iOS, Android and WP8 they have reason to celebrate and be congratulated.

    The other Important factor you happen to leave out, is that 3rd party software will be even less optimized and less efficient than the OS. Most of the apps, especially games you'll see for BB10 won't be developed for BB10, but will be quick and dirty ports. In other words, you'll wish for for more RAM and a quad core CPU in a years time.

    Lastly, you try to explaining to customers that they're better off with a dual core phone rather than a quad core phone. MHz and number of cores have always won out in the marketplace, and I doubt it's going to change now.
  22. CrackedBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fernandez21 View Post
    i dont get why everyone is so upset with the specs, every seems on par with other top handsets. It has a snap dragon s4, which is the best processor available at the moment in regards to speed and battery life, has a screen with over 350ppi, a powerful gpu, and lte. The only thing I could see is the 1gb RAM, would've been nice if had 2gb, but 1gb is still fine, and 16gb storage is also on the low end, but it does have an sd card slot so you can add more. Plus as others have said, as long as the software can take advantage of those specs the user experience should be fantastic.
    Yes, it's up to the specs of phones that are out NOW. But the L series won't be out and in consumers hands till February/March at the earliest, and by that time it'll be up against quad core phones with 2gb RAM and 1080p screens. That's the problem...
  23. Hawkeberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    Yes! Lets all go out and get less more dollars! I think I have a bunch of old 1ghz pentiums in my garage I'm sure you're interested in for cheap. Why, you could just put a super efficient OS on it, and have it run as fast as a 3 ghz i3, right? Oh no?
    Make such an OS that will run as smoothly on the old 1Ghz Pentiums that runs todays' softwares and I might be interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    You assume an awful lot here. For example that BB10 is three times as efficient as Android or iOS. Nothing suggests that is the case. the Playbook wasn't particularly efficient, and nothing that I'm hearing through the grapevine from developers suggests that BB10 is even close to the miracle you try to make it out to be.
    I didn't assume anything. If you weren't so blinded by specs and actually read what I wrote, you would have noticed the "if".I have a 1.5 Ghz dual core Android with 1 GB RAM and I am yet to run an app that makes it struggle. So a bit more optimization and BB10 will be the "project butter" with similar specs. If it isn't, it deserves to faily anyway irrespective of specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    Lastly, you try to explaining to customers that they're better off with a dual core phone rather than a quad core phone. MHz and number of cores have always won out in the marketplace, and I doubt it's going to change now.
    Those who want the brag rights for specs will go to Samsung or Sony's upcoming Yuga / Odin.

    They also have to ensure it is affordable to most. Having quad-core, 3GB RAM and 5.5" screen might impress you and few others but will be out of reach/interest for most (especially if you don't want its build to be samsung-plasticky). That's not what they want. They can release a "superphone" later but the first will have to accomodate almost everyone.
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  24. dynot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackedBarry View Post
    A dual core CPU at 1 ghz can finish several tasks faster than a single core at 1.5 ghz for example, goes to sleep faster and therefore uses less power. Likewise with an 800 ghz quad core CPU compared with the 1 ghz dual core. It uses less power for the same tasks because (among other things like process difference) it goes to sleep faster.
    This is a popular myth. Firstly, the majority of battery drain comes from the display, the CPU, and the radio so any improvement is marginal at best. Just turning on your BT will eliminate any savings you get with quad cores. Second, faster performance will invariably demand more battery power. And lastly, only software which is specifcally developed for quad cores will optimize power use.

    In the final analysis you can't automatically assume that quad core uses less power. Perhaps in theorey it does but there are other real-world uses thatfactor in.
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    If your not impressed with the spec, then buy an android and stfu. I fully believe apple has shown everyone that specs don't matter. As long as the OS is smooth and fluid, the user experience is what its all about, not who has the most raw computing power.

    Your also comparing a company who gives away its OS to hardware manufacturers(IE. I can bump up the specs of the hardware because I don't have to worry about the price of R&D for the OS, or how to recoup those prices), to a company who has to produce both.
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