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  1. FirstBerry101's Avatar
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    #76  

    Default Re: z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    I will gladly pay 700 dollars for this phone. its going to amazing and quality costs money!


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  2. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #77  

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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstBerry101 View Post
    I will gladly pay 700 dollars for this phone. its going to amazing and quality costs money!


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    Whilst many here would pay that mu h. The vast majority of consumers wouldnt.

    And no flagships phones do not cost 700$ as standard. They had to earn the fanbase before charging that much. Look at the nokia 920. 450$ off contract and a quality piece of hardware, not exactly selling well. Bb10 has the same difficult task to do.
    Match prices with iOS and android and bb10 will fail because people simply will not change.

    It is bad business to launch a new platform at the same prices as the top products of an established platform. Especially if said new platform has no major advantage over established platforms, which so far bb10 does not have. Heres hoping the 30 jan changes that.
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  3. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkehawke View Post
    And no flagships phones do not cost 700$ as standard. They had to earn the fanbase before charging that much. Look at the nokia 920. 450$ off contract and a quality piece of hardware, not exactly selling well. Bb10 has the same difficult task to do.
    Match prices with iOS and android and bb10 will fail because people simply will not change.

    It is bad business to launch a new platform at the same prices as the top products of an established platform. Especially if said new platform has no major advantage over established platforms, which so far bb10 does not have. Heres hoping the 30 jan changes that.
    Judging by your own example, it would seem like launching at a price noticeably lower than the established platforms doesn't work either, so should rim just give up now?

    Realistically, they cannot charge right at the top end of pricing, but they should be looking at a mainstream high end price for their phone which for a canadian carrier would be around $550-600 which coincidentally is what that 700cad works out as once you remove sales tax which would seem to imply that once again people have flown off the handle for no reason whatsoever.
  4. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #79  

    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeevecr View Post
    Judging by your own example, it would seem like launching at a price noticeably lower than the established platforms doesn't work either, so should rim just give up now?

    Realistically, they cannot charge right at the top end of pricing, but they should be looking at a mainstream high end price for their phone which for a canadian carrier would be around $550-600 which coincidentally is what that 700cad works out as once you remove sales tax which would seem to imply that once again people have flown off the handle for no reason whatsoever.
    i've always said asking people to pay 550 to 600 is the ideal way to go.
    i dont know how Canadian tax works as i live in the uk.
    ideally the prices should be be 350 in the uk.
    as for the nokia. low prices alone wont guarantee sales. they need to advertise it and get it in the hands of people. let word of mouth spread.
    all this is assuming that bb10 is as good as we think.

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  5. dr0800's Avatar
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    But Nokia are struggling to push Windows 8 on their phones. Sim free the Nokia 820 is around 380 and the Z10 is a higher spec phone than that. If you are an early adopter you are looking at 450 for the 16gb.
    The mobile os market is in a state of flux. The only handset maker generating money from Android is Samsung and they are squeezing the other android manufacturers badly. The trend now seems for manufacturers to control the user experience by going to bespoke os. That is the unique selling point of BB10.
  6. magutwit's Avatar
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    It's the same thing as with the Dior and Chanel creams or perfumes, you can sell them really cheaper, but it wouldn't work...when people buy high range products, they won't buy it cheap, because they feel it can be worse.
    Samsung did a really good job though...

    I suggest a price slightly cheaper than iPhones.

    P.S. The problem with the PB is not that they sold first PB at the price of the iPads, the problem is that that tablet was a half-baked product!
  7. kevinnugent's Avatar
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    #82  

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    The new LTE version of Samsungs GS3 device can be got here for about $549 outright. If the Z10 is more expensive than this, I think it may struggle. Unless the marketing is amazing.
  8. dr0800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinnugent View Post
    The new LTE version of Samsungs GS3 device can be got here for about $549 outright. If the Z10 is more expensive than this, I think it may struggle. Unless the marketing is amazing.
    But Samsung is not a good example to quote. Samsung established themselves on the back os stolen IP from Apple and an aggressive marketing drive. The former is not available for RIM. Rest assured all the dust has not settled from the mobile os wars and that is likely to help RIM. If Android hanset manufacturers are having to pay for patent infringements of Apple their prices will rise. In addition Carriers want more than two ecosystems since they can renegotiate the eye gouging costs of carrying the Iphone.
  9. magutwit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlaten View Post
    You mention that we should have faith in RIM. And on this, I must admit to having a chuckle. I did have faith in RIM prior to purchasing the Playbook on launch day. I had faith that RIM had produced a viable and complete tablet - a faith that was misplaced. I had faith that email would have been delivered in a timely fashion as RIM's CEO's promised - misplaced. I had faith that MSN and Skype, seeing how RIM showed pictures of them in their App World during the early press announcements of the Playbook, would in fact be there - misplaced. I had faith that BBM would actually be available on the device given that it was a Blackberry after all - misplaced. I had faith that when BBM was announced for the Playbook, it would actually look like a polished application instead of some after-thought with poorly executed frames/design - misplaced again.
    +1
  10. QuIcKsIlV3r's Avatar
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    Either which way guys, RIM is going to charge whatever, and the carriers are going to charge whatever, so no sense arguing about what the cost should be because we don't control the prices. Either way the Z10 will be between $550-$650. Which is right inline with all the higher end devices, and stop coming back with "Well the nokia lumina bla bla bla" That is the business model that Nokia or whatever company wanted to model their prices at. Just don't be shocked on launch day when the price is announced. And for those that say "But the Android and iOS platforms are really well developed" Remember when the first iphone came out and the price was $600 for something like 4 or 8GB and that was an untested device in the market. So your argument is now invalid, A new system shouldn't be cut under price, it should start high and move down. Apple started high and remained high to this day. The playbook (despite what it was 20 something months ago) started off hot and high on price, and the market pushed it down. RIM will ultimately do it again with BB10. So like I say, don't get your panties all twisted up because you think it should be lower.

    Even if the device costs $350-400 to make, you still need to make a profit, which means that the phone would start no less then $500 to consumers. Which is why I'm thinking between $550-600 will be the outright selling price.

    And for D3agon or however you spell it, it's not our fault you haven't gone on contract in 7yrs. You want the latest and greatest, you pay for it especially if you are an early adopter. Here's a grand idea, sign up for a new contract phone and you can probably get the phone half price of what you would pay retail. Heaven forbid that you go on contract with a carrier you have probably been with for 9-11yrs already. I've been with Rogers/Cantel AT&T (way back in the day here in Canada) almost 18yrs ago. I resign contracts with Rogers because I am happy with them. I don't like contracts, but I resign 3yr contracts because I know I'm not going anywhere else. I can fairly easily get whatever I want from Rogers because I have been with them so long. People tell me all the time I should just finish a contract and then jump to someone else to get a better deal. I don't, because I get some of the best deals already with Rogers. It's nice to have options, but my carrier to me personally is the best carrier in Canada. So I don't hesitate to resign another 3yrs and if a new phone comes out in between, guess what? I pay the money to get a new phone. Easy and simple as that. If I want the latest and greatest, I pay the price.
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  11. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #86  

    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    Either which way guys, RIM is going to charge whatever, and the carriers are going to charge whatever, so no sense arguing about what the cost should be because we don't control the prices. Either way the Z10 will be between $550-$650. Which is right inline with all the higher end devices, and stop coming back with "Well the nokia lumina bla bla bla" That is the business model that Nokia or whatever company wanted to model their prices at. Just don't be shocked on launch day when the price is announced. And for those that say "But the Android and iOS platforms are really well developed" Remember when the first iphone came out and the price was $600 for something like 4 or 8GB and that was an untested device in the market. So your argument is now invalid, A new system shouldn't be cut under price, it should start high and move down. Apple started high and remained high to this day. The playbook (despite what it was 20 something months ago) started off hot and high on price, and the market pushed it down. RIM will ultimately do it again with BB10. So like I say, don't get your panties all twisted up because you think it should be lower.

    Even if the device costs $350-400 to make, you still need to make a profit, which means that the phone would start no less then $500 to consumers. Which is why I'm thinking between $550-600 will be the outright selling price.

    And for D3agon or however you spell it, it's not our fault you haven't gone on contract in 7yrs. You want the latest and greatest, you pay for it especially if you are an early adopter. Here's a grand idea, sign up for a new contract phone and you can probably get the phone half price of what you would pay retail. Heaven forbid that you go on contract with a carrier you have probably been with for 9-11yrs already. I've been with Rogers/Cantel AT&T (way back in the day here in Canada) almost 18yrs ago. I resign contracts with Rogers because I am happy with them. I don't like contracts, but I resign 3yr contracts because I know I'm not going anywhere else. I can fairly easily get whatever I want from Rogers because I have been with them so long. People tell me all the time I should just finish a contract and then jump to someone else to get a better deal. I don't, because I get some of the best deals already with Rogers. It's nice to have options, but my carrier to me personally is the best carrier in Canada. So I don't hesitate to resign another 3yrs and if a new phone comes out in between, guess what? I pay the money to get a new phone. Easy and simple as that. If I want the latest and greatest, I pay the price.
    the iphone was a lot cheaper when it came out. the prices rose with the popularity. same with Samsung. blackberry does not enjoy that popularity.
    the perfume analogy used earlier is the same thing. fact is many ppl buy the fake dior if they can.
    you're right, whatever the price will be will be.
    but i, and many others, will look to the price as one of the first signs to see if rim have learnt from their mistakes.
    they simply can not mingle with the big players anymore. seeing as everyone conviniently missed the point about nokia i'll spell it out. nokia were a bigger player then blackberry ever was. they could charge high prices in their hey day. but just like RIM they are small league now. they know they cant charge the same as apple and Samsung. expect to see htc doing a similar thing. i just hope rim see this, i have faith they do.
    because with all we know for sure about bb10 now, there is no real reason for a consumer to pick it over the other platforms, other then personal preference. and the kicker is the other platforms have far too much of a lead on that.

    but who knows what Jan 30 will bring. we can discuss this all day long and noone will be right or wrong as all we are doing is speculating. come the 30th all this may mean nothing when rim reveal bb10 comes with a usb attachment that makes you a cup of tea and also it predicts the lottery with 90% success lol.



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  12. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #87  

    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by dr0800 View Post
    But Samsung is not a good example to quote. Samsung established themselves on the back os stolen IP from Apple and an aggressive marketing drive. The former is not available for RIM. Rest assured all the dust has not settled from the mobile os wars and that is likely to help RIM. If Android hanset manufacturers are having to pay for patent infringements of Apple their prices will rise. In addition Carriers want more than two ecosystems since they can renegotiate the eye gouging costs of carrying the Iphone.
    you missed the point. the s3 is a popular phone. most people would pick it over the z10 if they were the same price.
    also its debatable with what you claim. there is enough evidence out there to show android was developed before iOS. but that has nothing to do with this thread.


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  13. anon5398027's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkehawke View Post
    ...
    they simply can not mingle with the big players anymore. seeing as everyone conviniently missed the point about nokia i'll spell it out. nokia were a bigger player then blackberry ever was. they could charge high prices in their hey day. but just like RIM they are small league now. they know they cant charge the same as apple and Samsung. ...

    In germany the Lumia 920 costs 650 (~850$). It was sold out immediately and is still selling very good.
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  14. dr0800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkehawke View Post
    you missed the point. the s3 is a popular phone. most people would pick it over the z10 if they were the same price.
    also its debatable with what you claim. there is enough evidence out there to show android was developed before iOS. but that has nothing to do with this
    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk
    Whether people choose android over BB depends what they look for in a phone. Price point is not the sina qua non for me. I require a stable messaging platform with solid security. I will pay a premium for an OS without the security issues that riddle Android.
    The IP infringement I was referring to was the e-mails released at trial confirming Samsung made their UI mimic the behaviour of Ios; page bounce, tap to zoom being two obvious examples.
    Slightly off topic but Samsung have a history of copying innovation and undercutting the price. Sony suffered with their flat screen TV technology and Apple became a victim as well.
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  15. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #90  

    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by dr0800 View Post
    Whether people choose android over BB depends what they look for in a phone. Price point is not the sina qua non for me. I require a stable messaging platform with solid security. I will pay a premium for an OS without the security issues that riddle Android.
    The IP infringement I was referring to was the e-mails released at trial confirming Samsung made their UI mimic the behaviour of Ios; page bounce, tap to zoom being two obvious examples.
    Slightly off topic but Samsung have a history of copying innovation and undercutting the price. Sony suffered with their flat screen TV technology and Apple became a victim as well.
    i agree with you. i like the security of blackberry. unfortunately everyone here is in the minority.
    i want to continue to use blackberry so i want them to succeed. for that to happen they need to gain more users.
    i'm not speaking for myself as i will be getting a z10.
    i'm trying to think from a neutral pov and think of things that would tempt neutrals over.
    security is just not important to the general consumer. blackberrys predicament proves that. so we have to offer them something else.


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  16. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #91  

    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    yeah apple are as bad as Samsung in that regards. i believe that bounce back patent has been invalidated. what that means, who knows. hopefully it means things that should never have been patented wont get patented in the future.
    the patent system seems to dodgy as it stands. how can you patent something you never invented.
    needs a complete overhaul if you ask me

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  17. d3ac0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    And for those that say "But the Android and iOS platforms are really well developed" Remember when the first iphone came out and the price was $600 for something like 4 or 8GB and that was an untested device in the market. So your argument is now invalid, A new system shouldn't be cut under price, it should start high and move down. Apple started high and remained high to this day. The playbook (despite what it was 20 something months ago) started off hot and high on price, and the market pushed it down. RIM will ultimately do it again with BB10. So like I say, don't get your panties all twisted up because you think it should be lower.
    No it's not invalid. You know why? Because Apple shills always bought Apple products before the iPhone that were overpriced. They were used to pay the Apple tax. They still are. RIM does not have a B-Plan if BB10 fails. If it comes to that, God forbid, it will crumble and die with a bang. We don't want that.


    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    And for D3agon or however you spell it, it's not our fault you haven't gone on contract in 7yrs. You want the latest and greatest, you pay for it especially if you are an early adopter. Here's a grand idea, sign up for a new contract phone and you can probably get the phone half price of what you would pay retail. Heaven forbid that you go on contract with a carrier you have probably been with for 9-11yrs already. I've been with Rogers/Cantel AT&T (way back in the day here in Canada) almost 18yrs ago. I resign contracts with Rogers because I am happy with them. I don't like contracts, but I resign 3yr contracts because I know I'm not going anywhere else. I can fairly easily get whatever I want from Rogers because I have been with them so long. People tell me all the time I should just finish a contract and then jump to someone else to get a better deal. I don't, because I get some of the best deals already with Rogers. It's nice to have options, but my carrier to me personally is the best carrier in Canada. So I don't hesitate to resign another 3yrs and if a new phone comes out in between, guess what? I pay the money to get a new phone. Easy and simple as that. If I want the latest and greatest, I pay the price.
    I don't mind paying full price. I am used to pay full price and enjoy the freedom. But let say, TODAY, I can get a SG3 for $450, a Note II for $520 and an i5 for $650 (prices converted from euro to USD without TAX). If Z10 comes to ~$500 I 'll grab one for sure. If it comes to $650-$700, I 'll go grab a i5 and trade it for a Z10+cash. Cause that's how the market works.

    BB10 is NOT a proven, OS. It has all the right genes and it SEEMS that will be a real HIT, but if not enough devices make it to the average Joe Consumer's hands it will hurt RIM. And I think that most if not all of us here do not want that. As I said before, RIM can charge and arm and a leg and a nut if they want for ARISTO, but Z10 and X10 need to be affordable. They need to be the building block for RIM's future, that's volume and word of mouth.
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  18. d3ac0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badabaeng View Post
    In germany the Lumia 920 costs 650€ (~850$). It was sold out immediately and is still selling very good.
    Yeah, all five of them! LOL. Nokia is restricting supply so it seems that there is high demand. In two months time the 920 will be cheap
  19. anon5398027's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d3ac0n View Post
    Yeah, all five of them! LOL. Nokia is restricting supply so it seems that there is high demand. In two months time the 920 will be cheap
    They restricted the supply for the US. Not europe.
  20. Banco's Avatar
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    It's interesting to see how different markets view things. In the UK, if you were to even ask me how much a smartphone is I wouldn't know. It's never part of the marketing, the monthly cost on contract is the way it's presented. I'm sure some people go out and buy them, but it's not how it appears in public consciousness.
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  21. d3ac0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badabaeng View Post
    They restricted the supply for the US. Not europe.
    Europe too. For a fact
  22. dr0800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d3ac0n View Post
    Europe too. For a fact
    IIRC the Nokia CEO described the company's position as akin to standing on the deck of a burning oil platform. I have looked at the 820 and it's a solid piece ok kit but Windows 8 does not seem to be making inroads. This is itself is good for RIM. Smartphone adoption by consumers is increasing. I would guess that if BB could cut into Android subscriptions and get a global market share of 10% it is mission accomplished for Heins.
    Last edited by dr0800; 01-08-2013 at 10:54 AM.
  23. theegoldenone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banco View Post
    It's interesting to see how different markets view things. In the UK, if you were to even ask me how much a smartphone is I wouldn't know. It's never part of the marketing, the monthly cost on contract is the way it's presented. I'm sure some people go out and buy them, but it's not how it appears in public consciousness.
    Good point. I'm in the US. I'm curious on how many people actually buy phones outright vs contact. Though I've always had the means, buying a phone outright has never really crossed my mind.
  24. dr0800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lc1412 View Post
    Good point. I'm in the US. I'm curious on how many people actually buy phones outright vs contact. Though I've always had the means, buying a phone outright has never really crossed my mind.
    Most people will buy their phones on contract. EE are offering their 4g network rates starting at 38 a month with a 500mb data cap, wtf? Images of **** Turpin come to mind.
    In these austere times it would cheaper to buy the phone sim free and take a cheap as chips sim only plan. If you're a BT broadband customer you'll get UK wide wifi coverage.
  25. Banco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr0800 View Post
    Most people will buy their phones on contract. EE are offering their 4g network rates starting at 38 a month with a 500mb data cap, wtf? Images of **** Turpin come to mind.
    In these austere times it would cheaper to buy the phone sim free and take a cheap as chips sim only plan. If you're a BT broadband customer you'll get UK wide wifi coverage.
    EE are taking advantage of the early adopters who want 4G whilst they have a monopoly. Yep, definitely a rip off, but we all know that plenty of people will go for it, even with the pathetic 500GB allowance that will be gone in a day or so. Prices will fall as soon as the other providers start piling in.

    As an aside, have you tried to use their website? It's a complete disaster - looks pretty but is utterly unusable.
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