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  1. Easy-G's Avatar
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    #51  

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    My guess is that on-contract purchases make up the majority of phone purchases, especially among new smartphone buyers. Those customers probably don't see or care about a price that is not subsidized by the carrier.
  2. Flexin's Avatar
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    #52  

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    Quote Originally Posted by d3ac0n View Post
    Those hi end devices you mentioned have very healthy ecosystem behind them. WP8 devices started with high expectations and prices are falling off the cliff in second hand market. And they actually have an semi established ecosystem.
    I did it before, I ll say it again: RIM needs to sell in volume at first. They can charge an arm and a leg for ARISTO but Z10 and X10 need to be affordable. <500USD affordable of contract. If they aim for ~700USD they ll end up with a Playbook v2 disaster and we all know they can't afford such a thing

    Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2
    If RIM needs $450 for the phone how are people expecting to get it for less then $500? That leaves no profit for the carriers and or less/no profit for RIM. People need to be realistic.

    James
  3. QuIcKsIlV3r's Avatar
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    #53  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlaten View Post
    For arguments sake, and to play devil's advocate, I'll try to answer your questions.

    I have no problem paying $800 for an Iphone5 given that the phone is proven i.e., has a proven operating system - even if it is archaic - and has a robust application ecosystem whereby I will not have to be constantly sending out messages begging hand over foot for both major and non-major developers to support the platform. In the case of BB10; despite being impressed and enthusiastic with what has been shown - the OS is relatively unknown and the app ecosystem has yet to materialize. Granted, RIM has been taking an aggressive stance in reaching out to developers and, if comments via twitter and other social media forums prove true, developers have replied with enthusiasm; however, it still remains to be seen if the major applications are going to be available.

    You mention that we should have faith in RIM. And on this, I must admit to having a chuckle. I did have faith in RIM prior to purchasing the Playbook on launch day. I had faith that RIM had produced a viable and complete tablet - a faith that was misplaced. I had faith that email would have been delivered in a timely fashion as RIM's CEO's promised - misplaced. I had faith that MSN and Skype, seeing how RIM showed pictures of them in their App World during the early press announcements of the Playbook, would in fact be there - misplaced. I had faith that BBM would actually be available on the device given that it was a Blackberry after all - misplaced. I had faith that when BBM was announced for the Playbook, it would actually look like a polished application instead of some after-thought with poorly executed frames/design - misplaced again.

    So with this mentality, I can see purchasing an iOS device for $800 while not doing the same thing for a BB10 device. This is not to say that I wouldn't buy a BB10 device - I already have mine preordered via Rogers - but it is to say that RIM is not yet in the same position as Apple or perhaps even Samsung. With those platforms, people will readily open their wallets regardless of price. With RIM, their recent past and their unknown present contributes to much more hesitation on the part of the consumer.
    Well then all I can say is, WAIT!!

    We got burned by the ex CEO's and now that Thorstein is on the helm, things have been a lot better. But you do know, all you've become is a non early adopter. That is all you have become. You whine about a pic that shouldn't have been there in the first place. They wanted MSN and Skype there at launch, but the deals fell through with MS and Skype. So RIM's fault yes, but seriously, that is almost 2yrs old now. Hold a grudge, fine, feel like you will get burned again? Fine... but seriously, it's you that is going to miss out. Apps are not the make or break of a PHONE and now with new leadership, you are reserved, but who cares if the phone is $700?? Like seriously. That is the cost of a high end phone, NO MATTER who the manufacture is. And anyone who comes up with the Nexus 4 argument, is just reaching, because I bet you anything, selling off contract is costing more than what the phone production is. Or the phone production is poor and they are selling it cheap.
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  4. narci's Avatar
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    #54  

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    Who would want to spend $700 on a phone from a company that is perceived to be dead?

    RIM knows they will keep a majority of their user base but also a majority of that user based is outside NA. RIM needs to win back BB users who went android or iOS and also pull in new BB users at the same time.

    If they price it the same as an iphone or S3, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

    I'm not saying give it away for free but price it slightly under the iphone and S3 price...say...$500-$600.

    RIM has nothing to lose and all to gain. If they price it too high, they'll be dead before they even started. They don't want to set the Playbook pricing expectations again.

    One of the more important perceptions is that BB have no apps. Well, they can't reliably attract developers if the user base is low.
  5. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by Flexin View Post
    Selling it too low will lower the value of the phone and RIM.

    People do buy phones without knowing anything about them. They walk into a store, and a sales person show off a few products and away they go. It happens all the time.

    We don't know the really price until January 30th. Until then I think people should keep a cool head. And no matter what the price, its up to each person to look at what is being offered and see if the price is right for them. I think it is wrong for people to expect RIM to just give the phones away because they think the company is desperate. The launch event is to showcase the new line of phones. That is where they show it off and show you why it will be priced for what they end up selling it for.

    Too low of a price is going to make it hard for them to ever make money on hardware.

    James
    would you say 550 - 600$ is too low?
    it is my honest opinion that at that price, they still make a profit. its just not as maximised.
    i am not asking to sell at no profit, just minimum profit in order to get the phones in the hands in the public.
    i have a real concern that even 550$ may not tempt people alone, but hopefully RIM has an effective marketing campaign that should help. just make sure its nothing like those damn surface ads.

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  6. narci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkehawke View Post
    would you say 550 - 600$ is too low?
    it is my honest opinion that at that price, they still make a profit. its just not as maximised.
    i am not asking to sell at no profit, just minimum profit in order to get the phones in the hands in the public.
    i have a real concern that even 550$ may not tempt people alone, but hopefully RIM has an effective marketing campaign that should help. just make sure its nothing like those damn surface ads.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk
    ^^^ exactly
  7. QuIcKsIlV3r's Avatar
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    #57  

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    You guys are missing the point though, not many people will be buying off contract, most will be upgrading on Rogers/AT&T/Sprint/Verizon/Bell/Telus and renewing for 2-3yrs. So there will be a subsidized price on the phone. As was already stated, if you want to be an early adopter, you WILL pay the high price, as the on contract pricing could be between $199-$299, and within 2 months, I bet it will be between $99-199 so if you don't like the price points, DO NOT BUY IT at the expensive price AND DO NOT B!TCH ABOUT IT!!!
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  8. narci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    You guys are missing the point though, not many people will be buying off contract, most will be upgrading on Rogers/AT&T/Sprint/Verizon/Bell/Telus and renewing for 2-3yrs. So there will be a subsidized price on the phone. As was already stated, if you want to be an early adopter, you WILL pay the high price, as the on contract pricing could be between $199-$299, and within 2 months, I between it will be between $99-199 so if you don't like the price points, DO NOT BUY IT at the expensive price AND DO NOT B!TCH ABOUT IT!!!
    With regards to the Canadian carriers, we have more them 3.

    Fido has a HUGE BB user base but they won't be getting BB10 anytime soon. Heck fido got the 9790 not so long ago.I know many 9900 who are on fido that had to get them off contract.

    Going by your statement, how many people are in mid contract? RIM needs to price the full price to attract those people who are in mid contract that cannot HUP.

    Example: I just got an S3 with 2.5 years left on my contract. If I wanted a Z10, I'd need to buy it out right. A used S3 on craigslist goes for about $450. That means I'll need to shell out $250 dollars to jump into a Z10 (on top of the phone price at the start of the contract).
  9. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    Well then all I can say is, WAIT!!

    We got burned by the ex CEO's and now that Thorstein is on the helm, things have been a lot better. But you do know, all you've become is a non early adopter. That is all you have become. You whine about a pic that shouldn't have been there in the first place. They wanted MSN and Skype there at launch, but the deals fell through with MS and Skype. So RIM's fault yes, but seriously, that is almost 2yrs old now. Hold a grudge, fine, feel like you will get burned again? Fine... but seriously, it's you that is going to miss out. Apps are not the make or break of a PHONE and now with new leadership, you are reserved, but who cares if the phone is $700?? Like seriously. That is the cost of a high end phone, NO MATTER who the manufacture is. And anyone who comes up with the Nexus 4 argument, is just reaching, because I bet you anything, selling off contract is costing more than what the phone production is. Or the phone production is poor and they are selling it cheap.

    do you actually think that?
    where do you think apples billions come from if that is how much it costs to produce a high end phone? girl guide charity events. they can easily sell the phones for less and get profit still.
    the most important thing is to get these phones selling. rim arent in a comfortable position you know. they arent a major player any more. they need this to work at full pace.
    waiting is not a luxury rim can afford to do. waiting may turn out to be very dangerous for them.
    please stop acting as if blackberry are a major player still. i know we all love our blackberrys here, but in the real world they are small time now.
    they cant afford to act like the big boys anymore. thats what got them in this mess. please stop advocating the same thing!


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  10. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    You guys are missing the point though, not many people will be buying off contract, most will be upgrading on Rogers/AT&T/Sprint/Verizon/Bell/Telus and renewing for 2-3yrs. So there will be a subsidized price on the phone. As was already stated, if you want to be an early adopter, you WILL pay the high price, as the on contract pricing could be between $199-$299, and within 2 months, I bet it will be between $99-199 so if you don't like the price points, DO NOT BUY IT at the expensive price AND DO NOT B!TCH ABOUT IT!!!
    you have completely missed the point.
    would that be your advise to the consumers? if its too expensive for your liking then dont buy it?
    cos they already did that.
    i'm glad you're not running the bb10 launch lol

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  11. QuIcKsIlV3r's Avatar
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    #61  

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    Quote Originally Posted by narci View Post
    With regards to the Canadian carriers, we have more them 3.

    Fido has a HUGE BB user base but they won't be getting BB10 anytime soon. Heck fido got the 9790 not so long ago.

    Going by your statement, how many people are in mid contract? RIM needs to price the full price to attract those people who are in mid contract that cannot HUP.

    Example: I just got an S3 with 2.5 years left on my contract. If I wanted a Z10, I'd need to buy it out right. A used S3 on craigslist goes for about $450. That means I'll need to shell out $250 dollars to jump into a Z10 (on top of the phone price at the start of the contract).
    Yes well, Fido, Wind, Public, Koodoo are all subsardies of the big 3 or independent and I was just giving examples of the big 6 in North America.

    I see your point, and I can bet you, the price point will be between $549-$649 off contract which is perfectly inline with EVERY other high end phone in the market. If the phone costs say $400-450 to make, RIM needs to make a profit still, so the phone won't be cheaper than $550.
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  12. Flexin's Avatar
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    #62  

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkehawke View Post
    would you say 550 - 600$ is too low?
    it is my honest opinion that at that price, they still make a profit. its just not as maximised.
    i am not asking to sell at no profit, just minimum profit in order to get the phones in the hands in the public.
    i have a real concern that even 550$ may not tempt people alone, but hopefully RIM has an effective marketing campaign that should help. just make sure its nothing like those damn surface ads.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk
    If RIM wants $450 then $550-600 would be nice. With the price carriers charge Canadians for service you would think they could ease up on the hardware. You can't get people on price alone.

    They need to market it well and hopefully the sales people will show the product off rather then just push them to iOS or Android.

    James
  13. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #63  

    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by Flexin View Post
    If RIM wants $450 then $550-600 would be nice. With the price carriers charge Canadians for service you would think they could ease up on the hardware. You can't get people on price alone.

    They need to market it well and hopefully the sales people will show the product off rather then just push them to iOS or Android.

    James
    yeah i think i mentioned the need for marketing later on.

    also promotional events and maybe live demo.
    something like test your Browser against ours lol

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  14. Thenton Burke's Avatar
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    If the final price is one penny above 599, they should change the name of the company from RIM to RIP.
  15. QuIcKsIlV3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkehawke View Post
    you have completely missed the point.
    would that be your advise to the consumers? if its too expensive for your liking then dont buy it?
    cos they already did that.
    i'm glad you're not running the bb10 launch lol

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk
    Not everyone can afford to be an early adopter. You can't expect RIM to lower their price to please everyone. It would be nice, but buddy, this is economics, you are in a business to make money, and if the cost to make the phone is high, expect to pay a higher price for it. It has NOTHING to do with how well or not how well you are doing in the market place. RIM is already taking a huge profit hit and loosing money on the PlayBook. They botched that big time, but really, you can't expect them to lose money right off the get go. They aren't in the position to do that. They need to MAKE money.
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  16. narci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    Not everyone can afford to be an early adopter. You can't expect RIM to lower their price to please everyone. It would be nice, but buddy, this is economics, you are in a business to make money, and if the cost to make the phone is high, expect to pay a higher price for it. It has NOTHING to do with how well or not how well you are doing in the market place. RIM is already taking a huge profit hit and loosing money on the PlayBook. They botched that big time, but really, you can't expect them to lose money right off the get go. They aren't in the position to do that. They need to MAKE money.
    If they wanted to make money, they should price the phone at $1000. Problem is you won't sell many at that price point.

    You have to understand that if you price the phone the same as the iPhone or S3, majority will take the iphone or S3 without a thought of the Z10. Why? Because those are proven platforms. Proven by who? By friends and family that have them and rave about them. RIM needs that kind of "marketing" that you can only buy by putting as many BB10 phones into hands of consumers. To do that, they can't price it the same as the market leaders.

    RIM is stuck between a rock and a hard place. BB10 phones NEED to succeed. It's their core business (compared to the PB which is not). If they fail on BB10, their done.
  17. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #67  

    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    Not everyone can afford to be an early adopter. You can't expect RIM to lower their price to please everyone. It would be nice, but buddy, this is economics, you are in a business to make money, and if the cost to make the phone is high, expect to pay a higher price for it. It has NOTHING to do with how well or not how well you are doing in the market place. RIM is already taking a huge profit hit and loosing money on the PlayBook. They botched that big time, but really, you can't expect them to lose money right off the get go. They aren't in the position to do that. They need to MAKE money.
    yeah they tried what you just said with os6 and os7.
    you cant play the short game. they need to look at long term. they cant afford to act like a big player any more. they just arent.
    since everyone seems to have garnered a misconception over the nexus 4 prices (it only applies to the devices sold by google, not in the high street) i will use the nokia 920 as an example.
    the phone cost 450$ off contract, ands is arguably far superior to the z10 in terms of hardware.
    so i still stand by charging the z10 at 550 - 600$ is reasonable. anything over that is not


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  18. QuIcKsIlV3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkehawke View Post
    yeah they tried what you just said with os6 and os7.
    you cant play the short game. they need to look at long term. they cant afford to act like a big player any more. they just arent.
    since everyone seems to have garnered a misconception over the nexus 4 prices (it only applies to the devices sold by google, not in the high street) i will use the nokia 920 as an example.
    the phone cost 450$ off contract, ands is arguably far superior to the z10 in terms of hardware.
    so i still stand by charging the z10 at 550 - 600$ is reasonable. anything over that is not


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk
    And that, I can agree with, the phone will be between $550-$650 Canadian. I am willing to bet my Z10 (when I get it lol) on that price point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkehawke View Post
    i was unaware of this. thanks for clarifying
    This only helps folks who won't have to pay Sales Tax. Here it's 10%. Just sayin'.
  20. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #70  

    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    And that, I can agree with, the phone will be between $550-$650 Canadian. I am willing to bet my Z10 (when I get it lol) on that price point.
    ideally I'd like it to be cheaper. but 550 reflects premium prices and remains cheaper than the iphone 5 and s3 i believe?
    thats the balance they need to get. they need to give people extra incentive to try bb10.
    they also need a killer ad campaign

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    There's a fine line. People tend not to value things they get too cheaply. But you can't launch a new device into this environment for too much money. Unfortunately for RIM they can't dictate pricing to the carriers - OR - maybe they have done a deal already. We haven't seen/heard yet who the 50 initial carriers are yet. Maybe they'll play ball with RIM.
  22. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #72  

    Default z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    luckily its in the carriers interest for bb10 to succeed. so hopefully they'll keep it nice and competitive. they know bb10 will not sell if matched to an iphone or s3.
    i think its more than 50 carriers now, the 50 were only for testing initially but i believe i read it has spread to more carriers.

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    Default Re: z10 rumoured to be 700cad

    Quote Originally Posted by Flexin View Post
    If RIM needs $450 for the phone how are people expecting to get it for less then $500? That leaves no profit for the carriers and or less/no profit for RIM. People need to be realistic.

    James
    If RIM's costs double from the Playbook they need to get a new R&D or/and marketing team. No device costs $450. Specially with last gen innards.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuIcKsIlV3r View Post
    You guys are missing the point though, not many people will be buying off contract, most will be upgrading on Rogers/AT&T/Sprint/Verizon/Bell/Telus and renewing for 2-3yrs. So there will be a subsidized price on the phone. As was already stated, if you want to be an early adopter, you WILL pay the high price, as the on contract pricing could be between $199-$299, and within 2 months, I bet it will be between $99-199 so if you don't like the price points, DO NOT BUY IT at the expensive price AND DO NOT B!TCH ABOUT IT!!!
    You will be surprised to know that the rest of the world buys devices off contract for the most part. I live in Europe and the last time I bought an on the contract device was 7 years ago.

    As for your do called b1tching let's clarify one thing : this forum is for BlackBerry FANS not Blackberry SHEEP. The SHEEP part is patented from Apple.
    Most of the users that rise valid arguments about the rumored price do so because they want RIM to comeback with a bang and not pull a NOKIA and drown in their own arrogance

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  24. dr0800's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkehawke View Post
    saw on ndtv.com that the rumoured price for the z10 will be 700cad.
    if this is true then i am disappointed as it will seem RIM has learnt nothing.
    700cad rounded slightly up is 450gbp and to ask for that price for a completely unproven and untested platform is crazy.
    i am hoping the site was way off with that price.
    On the contrary 450 is about the right price sim free for a Z10. This is a flagship phone that is set to compete with market leaders like the Galaxy SIIi and Iphone 4s.
    The price point is still well below the Iphone 5.
    We have to face it RIM are not going down the Nexus route. I for one will be ponying up my 450 sobs to buy the phone outright.
    just for clarification they got the price based on a competition by a carrier, so there is no official word on it.

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    recommended retail price != retail price ...
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