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  1. lorax1284's Avatar
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    #51  

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    (aside: I'm calling the company "BlackBerry" or "BB" and the DEVICES will collectively be "BBDs".)

    Now, BB doesn't manufacture the actual camera component. Who does?

    Light data goes through the lens and hits the sensor which is converted to electric impulses which are in turn processed by software into a picture.

    Is the physical hardware inside the BBDs inferior, or is it the software? If it's software, I will leave it to the developers to fix it.

    If it's because BB "decided" to go down market with a cheap sensor made by a company that doesn't make very good sensors, I will have to take a GO Transit bus to Waterloo and give Thorsten Heins a good SMACK across the face a la a 40's movie "broad" showing the roguish cad the whatfor.

    According to iSuppli, the cameras in the iPhone 5 cost $18. If BB indeed lowered the price of the device by $30 so they could cut corners on the cameras, I WILL BE VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY ANGRY... and disappointed, because THAT IS VERY VERY STUPID! Personally I carry a Canon S95 with me everywhere I go, so I have a really GOOD camera always available... I only use my phone camera to take pictures of "information" that I need temporarily and then throw the pic away... but many people want a decent camera in their phone and if BB cut corners for no good reason other than "eff YOU!" to those who DO want a decent camera, how can we of CrackBerry Nation be anything but disappointed and / or enraged.

    It makes me want to sell my shares as soon as the price stabilizes, which it will, above what I paid, probably by June.
    Last edited by lorax1284; 02-01-2013 at 10:49 AM.
    I was tapering off. I'm all tapered out now.
  2. n8ter#AC's Avatar
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    #52  

    Default Re: Why is the camera quality on Z10 still lacking?

    Quote Originally Posted by jarrodmeyer View Post
    Wouldn't we all.

    But - in reality - you have to consider the target market for these phones. It's been stated over and over again that 'hyper-connected, getting-things-done, type people'; "Blackberry people" are their target. For most Blackberry people the camera is _not_ the top priority.

    Not that this is an excuse for a sub-par camera, but for me personally? What I've seen of the camera quality is great. It should more than cover my needs. I don't need to be all landscaping and night shooting and wildlife hunting with it. I need daily capture-the-moment type shots. I need something to get that great face my daughter is pulling, something that can be on me all the time in ways and places my DSLR can't.

    To date I think iPhone and, recently, Nokia have the best imaging products in a mobile phone. But it's all about priorities: If you want imaging, consider those carefully against your other priorities. No device can have it all, and Blackberry certainly seem to be doing what they do _well_ in the Z10. It brings camera quality up to par with what I'd say is industry standard (if not pinnacle) at the moment - and that's good news for me.

    J
    Wrong. If they are willing to limit themselves that way, they're better off just shutting the company down IMO. This forum is full of people that use "they're only worried about blackberry/enterprise/business people" as an excuse for subpar functionality. RIM's past performance as an enterprise brand doesn't automatically mean they couldn't care less about the consumer market that put them in the whole they're in now. Taking the consumer market and their demands/wants for granted is what put them in the position they're in now. Camera quality is one of the biggest features in a smartphone these days. It's more important than BB Hub, IMO. I wouldn't even consider a phone with a subpar camera, no matter who makes it or how great the OS or the rest of the hardware is.

    Face it - the consumer market is what's driving adoption these days, not core fan bases that will use whatever RIM/Blackberry puts out. The camera is bad. It's worse than a Galaxy SII camera, easily, and not even on par with HTC Flagships from late 2011 (Vivid, Rezound, Sensation, Amaze 4G).

    And for the record, more MP does not equate to better image quality. In many cases the MP are shoved into equivalent sensor sizes which leads to WORSE image quality - just larger images. There's a reason why the Lumia 920 only has a 8.7MP sensor, and the Pureview 808 has a HUGE sensor protruding out of it to accommodate the bigger MP. Compare that to something like Sony's 12.x MP sensors in their phones, which is almost the same size as the One X's sensor, but takes much noisier images as a result.

    That camera quality isn't great. Not even close. Look at the images. I'm impressed the Lumia, though. I went to the AT&T store to play with the camera and it was nice. I only hate the barebones camera software Microsoft has in WP8.

    The success of a product has more to do with what one person thinks is great. Not everyone is content with mediocrity, especially when there are a number of devices available for half the cost with much better ecosystems backing them which have much better camera hardware and software on them.
    Last edited by n8ter#AC; 02-01-2013 at 10:58 AM.
  3. steveng01's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #53  

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    Clove Blog has some interesting pictures taken by Z10. Seems like the pic look good under strong sunlight and medicore when the surrounding is shaded, like the old BB phones.

    BlackBerry Z10 Sample Images
  4. BB_Bmore's Avatar
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    #54  

    Default Why is the camera quality on Z10 still lacking?

    The best camera I've ever used from BlackBerry was on the Style 9670...yes the flip phone lol. 5 MP with auto focus it always took fantastic shots IMO.

    Sent from my BlackBerry by Choice using Tapatalk
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  5. lorax1284's Avatar
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    #55  

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveng01 View Post
    Clove Blog has some interesting pictures taken by Z10. Seems like the pic look good under strong sunlight and medicore when the surrounding is shaded, like the old BB phones.

    BlackBerry Z10 Sample Images
    That is very reassuring (no sarcasm).
    I was tapering off. I'm all tapered out now.
  6. Oscar_E's Avatar
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    #56  

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    Eeeeeh !! iPhone 5 has a 1.2 GHz dual core processor, 1 gig of ram, 8 MP camera, with a 1.3 MP front facing camera. BBZ10 has better specs. But still, the camera quality is not about pixels, people have been fooled about this, i mean pixels are important, but is the camera sensor which gives the real quality of the pictures.

    Another though is that if the new BB devices don't take good quality pictures, Instagram wont be interested in developing for BlackBerry.
    kbz1960 likes this.
  7. CrownIsle's Avatar
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    #57  

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    It's upsetting that a new device can be released (not yet available in the US) but still be putting out things that folks are seeing as not being stellar when they had all the time in the world to hit the nail on the head. Granted an update may or may not help the issue a bit but if they are trying to be more relevant as a brand that can sit along side other smartphones- everyone wants bomb video and bomb pics. That's just a given.

    I have stock in BlackBerry. I hate to start asking myself why now.
    "Do not boast old woman, your death sits in that cage."
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  8. jbrians's Avatar
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    #58  

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    Software updates will improve the camera up to the max that the hardware can deliver. Not better than but at least up to. I have every expectation that they are staying awake nights trying to make this the best they can.

    The ultimate truth is, everyone is going to put the phone in their pocket, smear it up with greasy fingerprints from their super size me "happy meal" and then pop off a couple of pics through their filthy lens and be happy with the result.
    What is likely going to happen is the hardware, even though less than the best spec'd out there, is going to take such great pics of people (because of the brilliant time editing features) that your friends will be praising your photography skills (rubbing off on the hardware in your hand). The photography "system" in the Z10 is going to be one of the best overall packages out there...not necessarily for the best quality pics but for the best people pleasing pics... until the other guys come up with something as clever.
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  9. CrownIsle's Avatar
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    I hope you're right on all accounts.

    I wish for nothing more more than for BlackBerry to be successful and beyond.

    At this point- things will unfold as they may. I just hope there is no real displeasure if anyone that has purchased these devices- though human nature is to complain indeed (guilty here Indeed)
    Last edited by CrownIsle; 02-01-2013 at 08:44 PM.
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  10. MizMiMi02's Avatar
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    #60  

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveng01 View Post
    Clove Blog has some interesting pictures taken by Z10. Seems like the pic look good under strong sunlight and medicore when the surrounding is shaded, like the old BB phones.

    BlackBerry Z10 Sample Images
    Those pictures look great to me, I'm not sure what people were expecting...
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  11. sredd68's Avatar
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    #61  

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveng01 View Post
    If Blackberry really want to game with other brands and attract non-BB users, they have to step up and match the spec others are offering. 8MP camera is just out dated, period. The pictures we have seen taken by Z10 or 9900 have too much noise. This is 2013!
    More MP does not make for a better picture, in fact it can cause more noise, the only thing more MP is gather more info.

    Do more megapixels mean better picture quality? - Yahoo! Answers

    Camera megapixels: Why more isn't always better (Smartphones Unlocked) | Dialed In - CNET Blogs

    The Megapixel Myth

    The Megapixel Myth: Is More Really Better? - TopTenREVIEWS

    In other words, dont judge a camera by it's MP count. Post processing by the camera means so much more and for image quality you have to start with a good lens.
    Light the Torch, The Storm has passed!!!!
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  12. jarrodmeyer's Avatar
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    #62  

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    Quote Originally Posted by steveng01 View Post
    Clove Blog has some interesting pictures taken by Z10. Seems like the pic look good under strong sunlight and medicore when the surrounding is shaded, like the old BB phones.

    BlackBerry Z10 Sample Images

    Great news! Points at the possibility of a software fix down the road for some of those images (and I mean _some_).

    Most of them, though, are pretty faultless when compared to similar shots from iPhone5, Lumia 920, and GS3. (based on gsmarena.com galleries)
  13. IllmasterMathematics's Avatar
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    #63  

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    Quote Originally Posted by donmateo View Post
    Maybe this is more your type then...

    http://www.productwiki.com/upload/im..._rebel_t1i.jpg
    What a ****ty attitude. Who needs to make phone calls when you have a home phone? Or browse the Internet when you have an iPad?

    The fact of the matter is: to be truly compelling, the Z10 needs to be doing everything an iPhone can do as well or better. They put in all this work to be competitive on all these features and then the camera is this huge oversight that they've NEVER been able to get right. Dismissing the problem is a huge disservice to the brand you think you're defending.
  14. CrownIsle's Avatar
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    #64  

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    Quote Originally Posted by MizMiMi02 View Post
    Those pictures look great to me, I'm not sure what people were expecting...

    I agree here in this case. 100%. Those pictures look gorgeous actually.

    On the flip side, the images Kevin posted- looked like a camera that would have been on a 7520. I am glad to see those images look so great in that link, thanks to whomever!
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  15. #65  

    Default Re: Why is the camera quality on Z10 still lacking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fr3lncr View Post
    To be fair, the camera on the 9900 is actually quite good depending on the type of shots you are taking. Indoors, low light, or macro shots, no, it isn't very good. Outdoors, landscapes, with the light behind you, it takes great shots. Images are sharp, bright, good contrast.

    A camera's quality has absolutely nothing to do with the number of megapixels. It's a useless stat. You have to look at things like focus speed, accurate focus, shutter speed, ISO performance, pixel sharpness, or basically the final image quality on the whole.

    Case in point - Galaxy S2 with 8MP camera. Complete garbage (I know, I have one and I refuse to use it for pictures since the focus is slow, shutter is slow, sharpness is off, poor contrast, etc. etc.). My 9900 takes much, much better pictures than it. (Note: this is just a comparison against the S2 to show that a higher spec'd phone can still give garbage results. The iPhone is also a higher spec'd phone and it gives much better results than the 9900).

    In reality a 5MP camera is fine for most (seriously, what are you actually going to print with it? If you are just showing it on a computer screen, 5MP is more than enough). If you want more than that, buy a point and shoot of which pretty much any is better than any cell phone camera period. (Though admittedly, it isn't always convenient to carry one around or you may not have it on you when you need it).

    That being said, the shots in the review where they compare the Z10 with the Lumina, S3, iPhone 5 and an HTC one(?) were disappointing. RIM/Blackberry had bought some camera technology a while back (something about a liquid lens??) and I thought it would have made it in here. Personally, my preference would be for low light performance which would actually be better if they used a lower MP camera (more or less).

    Maybe BlackBerry should just cough up some $$ and buy a decent camera sensor from Sony or someone and just be done with it. I'm not saying a BlackBerry should have or needs the best camera quality (it'd be nice but not really required), but it should definitely have image quality that is better than average.
    First off, I never mentioned megapixels. I know enough about photography to not make that mistake. Which is the reason I still have my d80 and I buy better lenses instead of spending money on a d90 and still need better lenses.

    Secondly, life happens indoors, in low light too. Whether it's a silly thing that a child of pet does or a beautifully decorated church at Christmas or friends at a restaurant, one can't guarantee the position of the sun or the lighting.

    If I can take great pics with my SGIII and my 4S today, I should reasonably expect a BB flagship to do the same for its just released device.

    Looking at the pics of Kevin and the team doing the comparison shots on the Nokia, iPhone, and SGIII, it is sad to see that you can really pick Z10.


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  16. CrownIsle's Avatar
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    Photos Taken With The Z10 thread has totally proven this thread otherwise . . . . . thankfully.

    The images look awesome but I can't lie and act like I don't see CrackBerry Kev's comparing photo shots in my head lol

    I think the camera is going to be great from the looks of the other thread.
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    #67  

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    Lumia seems to be the best .. Galaxy S3 is bad though
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