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  1. MattUK's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #51  

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    Quote Originally Posted by netwerx1 View Post
    Maybe nobody else noticed, but the Z10 appears to have Flipboard, WhatsApp, and Instagram installed...side-loaded Android apps? Are they working well? Sorry for the side-track...
    Flipboard, WhatsApp work fine, Instagram and Spotify do not.. was just playing around with a spare handset to prove sideloading was working as I couldn't get it working on the other handset
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  2. MattUK's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #52  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jarrodmeyer View Post
    What you might not realize is on the first Z10 photo here the strip of light coming in from the right seems to be significantly impacting the photo as the camera software tries to adjust the image to cope with the extra backlighting.

    Its always incredibly important to match the image frame as closely as possible to avoid exactly that.
    No doubt.. but as I mentioned before this isn't a perfect scientific test, its a simple quick test out of the box as someone might use it to take a few pictures here and then.. I appreciate that to be a totally fair comparison then it would need to be setup better, plus it was Sunday and Sunday's don't count as days where I am able to think, process or be smart its my day off
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  3. peter9477's Avatar
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    #53  

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    Sorry rapha194, but your claim is ridiculous and unfounded. If we grant that the iPhone is better across the board as some are saying here (and I don't think the evidence has been produced to prove that just yet), then we still have no reason whatsoever to think that the Z10 can't be improved with some software enhancements. It may or may not be possible, but I haven't seen any responses in this thread either from expert photographers (who also understand how digital cameras work at a low level) or the BlackBerry hardware and software engineers. Anyone else is just speculating, so please keep your mind clear on when you're just making stuff up and when it really is factual. You said "let's be honest" but, honestly, you're not...
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  4. GTiLeo's Avatar
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    #54  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    To a point, but all the software tweaks in the world can't make up for inferior optics.
    i agree with you here but the optics on the Z10 do not apear to be sub quality, they appear clear and the details come through well, my observations show a dullness more then anything else which can be a tweeking of the contrast and color settings
  5. MattUK's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #55  

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    I would agree, some of the other pictures posted look fantastic.. lots of conditions will impact the output, and its the software that handles how it decides what to do. I reckon we will see fixes, or amendments to the shooting modes before long.
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  6. mikeo007's Avatar
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    #56  

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTiLeo View Post
    i agree with you here but the optics on the Z10 do not apear to be sub quality, they appear clear and the details come through well, my observations show a dullness more then anything else which can be a tweeking of the contrast and color settings
    It's virtually impossible to tell how much image data has actually been captured with these pictures since they have been resampled to a lower resolution.
    IMO the optics are definitely inferior. Take a look at some of the full sized images from reviews like the one done by Anandtech. The detail is just not there in the full sized images. Software tweaks can only tweak what's already part of the picture. The can't reliably add information to an image where it doesn't exist.
  7. GTiLeo's Avatar
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    #57  

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo007 View Post
    It's virtually impossible to tell how much image data has actually been captured with these pictures since they have been resampled to a lower resolution.
    IMO the optics are definitely inferior. Take a look at some of the full sized images from reviews like the one done by Anandtech. The detail is just not there in the full sized images. Software tweaks can only tweak what's already part of the picture. The can't reliably add information to an image where it doesn't exist.
    you may be right i'll take a look at more samples or come time to buy one look at my own picutres taken, either way i'm not much of a picture taker so the camera is no big deal to me
  8. BKbehave's Avatar
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    #58  

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    Definitely a First World problem, but I will play along. Can you see the image you want? If yes, then move on. It's a phone. It's a phone. Did I say it's a phone? Jack of all trade, master on none. I am sure if you play with the settings, you may obtain the look you want......but wait, there are filters to think about, so the original shot becomes less important, in some cases. I think it's me. I am not getting this phone, expecting it to take pictures like a.... dedicated camera. It's all fun and games until we take it so seriously. Now a camera that was able to make phone calls.......that's a different story.....
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  9. meltbox360's Avatar
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    #59  

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    Can someone with photoshop skills take a z10 photo and try to improve it with VERY simple things to see how much better we can make the photo through simple adjustments? This would probably tell us what we can expect if software tweaks are implemented. Also to those saying software can't add info reliably. If the software captures the picture it can also remember how bright the area was and make some reasonably accurate adjustments just based off of that. Sure we can't do that but a good algorithm COULD. Not sure if it will though...
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    #60  

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    Quote Originally Posted by meltbox360 View Post
    Can someone with photoshop skills take a z10 photo and try to improve it with VERY simple things to see how much better we can make the photo through simple adjustments? This would probably tell us what we can expect if software tweaks are implemented. Also to those saying software can't add info reliably. If the software captures the picture it can also remember how bright the area was and make some reasonably accurate adjustments just based off of that. Sure we can't do that but a good algorithm COULD. Not sure if it will though...
    I'll be happy to do that later today.

    My take -- and I'm not a professional photographer but I am a professional reviewer, I went to film school, and I've used nearly every flagship smartphone camera on the market (iPhone 5, Lumia 920, Galaxy SIII, etc) -- the Z10 is not in the same league as the iPhone or the Lumia. It's not a bad camera (except in low light, where it absolutely is), but it's not at that level.

    Software might be part of the reason but I'm also quite certain that the optics play a role. I doubt it has BSI and the sensor is likely not as large as what Apple is using (no question it's smaller than what Nokia is using - the 920 is a beast of a phone but its nearly as good as a standalone pocket camera. I just pretend it has a fixed lens and genuinely, the photos are often as good as what I get on my Canon S100).

    That isn't to say that the camera sucks. It doesn't. But it's no better than the iPhone 4S's camera (I'd honestly rate it worse). Having said that, the ability to do the time warp stuff IS slick.

    Anyway, I'll be happy to take some photos later today and run them through Lightroom and post them here.

    Look, not being the best doesn't mean the camera sucks.
  11. PunPryde's Avatar
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    #61  

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    Damn it, the iPhone5 pics look better to me , with flash it's not as bad though. Ugh, Z10 y u no have better camera!!!
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    #62  

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    Sorry for being a party pooper, but if you want some quality photos in low Light conditions, and if camera size matters, i honestly recomend a mirrorless camera with interchangeble optics. I love my Sony NEX camera.

    I understand we want to have the best of everything in a smartphone, but a serious cmos with serious optics will make a smartphone too bulky. In photography, size matters. ;-). Anything else, is just compromising.

    Simply, Z10 is a smartphone with a camera and not the other way around. I accept that Z10 not having the best comera in smartphone, but still decent. Personally the UX is more importante for me.
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  13. PunPryde's Avatar
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    #63  

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    Okay, everyone keeps saying this is a phone not a camera BUT these are comparisons to OTHER PHONES not cameras... and from what I've seen the Z10 lags the competition camera-wise.
  14. rapha194's Avatar
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    #64  

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    Top phone can not depend on Instagram and photoshop to make up their deficiencies!
  15. qbnkelt's Avatar
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    #65  

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapha194 View Post
    PS: Sorry my English ... I used google translate
    i kinda got that feeling!!!!You're fine
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    #66  

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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalman101 View Post
    Sorry for being a party pooper, but if you want some quality photos in low Light conditions, and if camera size matters, i honestly recomend a mirrorless camera with interchangeble optics. I love my Sony NEX camera.

    I understand we want to have the best of everything in a smartphone, but a serious cmos with serious optics will make a smartphone too bulky. In photography, size matters. ;-). Anything else, is just compromising.

    Simply, Z10 is a smartphone with a camera and not the other way around. I accept that Z10 not having the best comera in smartphone, but still decent. Personally the UX is more importante for me.
    except that Apple, Nokia and Samsung have managed to put high quality lenses and hardware in their phones. How is it that BB couldn't?
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and good with ketchup
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  17. Italiannyc's Avatar
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    #67  

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    The Iphone takes better pix then the Z10. Its really that simple. Not really a reason to not get a phone. For most people, if you dont have that iphone 5 or whatever phone image next to it, they will be perfectly content with how the picture looks. Lets be real. Most people are only putting these pictures on facebook.

    Now if you are the type that wants to blow up the picture and print them, etc etc, then yes you would have a problem with the Z10 camera. That is the minority though.
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  18. Italiannyc's Avatar
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    #68  

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    The whole camera thing is weird for me. I was in a similar situation. I had an HTC AMAZE, and it had an AMAZING camera. (AMAZE, get it). Its flash shots were a little off but I didnt care about that. Took some of my best photos with it. Sadly, I hated HTC. ( Wifi calling issues that I rely on) and there were 2 many bugs, so I was givin the option at the time to switch to the Samsung GS2. The GS2 blew away the HTC in many ways, including call quality and weight, which was important to me. Except for the camera. The camera was worse then the Amaze. Seemed like a big step down to me. I was disappointed because I was starting to really love taking pictures, knowing how great they were going to come out. In the end, I kept the GS2 because everything else was better and it went on to be one of the best phones I have ever used. Thing is, every time I would take a picture with it, I would still remember how great they looked on the HTC phone and it pissed me off. From that point on, I told myself I would never buy a phone without an amazing camera on it.

    You can fix the image all you want with programs, but it will never come out as crisp an clear as a photo would would a better camera phone. Not to mention, every one of those apps you use to mess with photos on your phone compresses the image. In the end, the GS2 photos came out " ok/good ", but no where near GREAT. The Amaze photos came out great period, without doing anything.

    So maybe in the end, some people really do value how a photo looks when buying a smart phone. I know I'm one of them.
  19. cgk
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    #69  

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKbehave View Post
    Definitely a First World problem, but I will play along.

    That 'first world problem' stuff needs to die - mainly because it's insulting to non-first world countries and suggests that everyone else is running around in loin-cloths and lives in mud-huts and their main problems are getting food/avoid warfare. Check out any emerging markets forum and they are all complaining as much as us if not more about mobile problems - indeed, in many countries because the infrastructure is more mobile focused, in many cases they are even more picky than people in first world nations.
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  20. jarrodmeyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunPryde View Post
    Okay, everyone keeps saying this is a phone not a camera BUT these are comparisons to OTHER PHONES not cameras... and from what I've seen the Z10 lags the competition camera-wise.
    And so?

    If you want the _very best_ camera in your phone, be sure to shop for it. I don't remember ever hearing of a Blackberry rep saying their phone cameras would trump the competition. It's about focus, really.

    But the camera is proving very good. And the timeshift is freaking great (revolutionary, even). I'm happy.
  21. rapha194's Avatar
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    #71  

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    My uncle is a professional photographer and asked his opinion with some samples of reviews and some forum users

    He had an iphone 4s and now he bought the iphone 5

    That's Words of a Professional, but any amateur can notice

    He said the photos of 4s is better than that of the Z10.

    Motorola, Lg and Blackberry never invested or struggled to put one together Optical (lens and sensor) to pay for their phones. For that reason they is not new these results.

    If you want a phone that SEEMS take good pictures when using third-party programs .... go ahead.

    Software will significantly improve contrast color ... .. shine. Noise, Sharpness improves somewhat.

    REPEAT

    Today a hig end phone can not take pictures worse than a phone 2 years ago.
  22. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    #72  

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    I prefer the z10 pictures 100%
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    #73  

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    I guess I missed something, have we seen some 1:1 shots? lol on people talking about what is wrong using supposition of the hardware, software, conditions, device settings and user ability.
    Nothing is so common as is the goal to be remarkable
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgk View Post
    That 'first world problem' stuff needs to die - mainly because it's insulting to non-first world countries and suggests that everyone else is running around in loin-cloths and lives in mud-huts and their main problems are getting food/avoid warfare. Check out any emerging markets forum and they are all complaining as much as us if not more about mobile problems - indeed, in many countries because the infrastructure is more mobile focused, in many cases they are even more picky than people in first world nations.
    So how about a spoilt rich person problem? Is that more PC for ya,
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  25. Toodeurep's Avatar
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    #75  

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapha194 View Post
    My uncle is a professional photographer and asked his opinion with some samples of reviews and some forum users

    He had an iphone 4s and now he bought the iphone 5

    That's Words of a Professional, but any amateur can notice

    He said the photos of 4s is better than that of the Z10.

    Motorola, Lg and Blackberry never invested or struggled to put one together Optical (lens and sensor) to pay for their phones. For that reason they is not new these results.

    If you want a phone that SEEMS take good pictures when using third-party programs .... go ahead.

    Software will significantly improve contrast color ... .. shine. Noise, Sharpness improves somewhat.

    REPEAT

    Today a hig end phone can not take pictures worse than a phone 2 years ago.
    Based on photos in this thread or actually viewing them printed or on a PC?
    Nothing is so common as is the goal to be remarkable
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