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  1. CrownIsle's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  

    Question OVERNIGHT Charging . . .

    Aloha

    So, leaving our phones hooked up and charging all night/over night is fine? Is that thing they used to say about, NOT leaving it charging all night when it's already charged in a couple hours- being bad for battery life, just a myth or not hold true in the Zed's case? Very curious and I wake up often through the night and I do pull it off the charger and throw it back in bedside mode cause I'm nervous to do anything that may not keep the battery in "tip top" shape.

    I would literally leave my 9810 on the charger until the gat damn cows came home and sang with the fat lady. Not sure if That is really something that matters (they say it with home portable phones as well now and then)

    Beuller . . . ?
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  2. Kat0908's Avatar
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    You can leave it charging all night. Won't be a problem for the device.
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  3. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    #3  

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownIsle View Post
    Aloha

    So, leaving our phones hooked up and charging all night/over night is fine? Is that thing they used to say about, NOT leaving it charged all night when it's already charged being bad for battery life, just a myth or not hold true in the Zed's case? Very curious and I wake up often through the night and I do pull it off the charger and throw it back in bedside mode cause I'm nervous to so anything to not keep the battery in tip top shape.

    I would literally leave my 9810 on the charger until the gat damn cows came home and sang with the fat lady. Not sure if That is really something that matters (they say it with home portable phones as well now and then).

    Beuller . . . ?
    It's fine provided you're using a charger that is volted for that battery. Like, the one it came with. The battery can become unstable if it's overcharged using a charger that is set for a higher voltage. Use the charger it came with or one that has the same voltage and there will be no issues at all.
    Answers are easy. It's asking the right questions which is hard. - The Doctor

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  4. CrownIsle's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #4  

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    Wow, interesting. Cool thanks!

    How do we know this, has that talk about not leaving on the charger for a long a@$ time been proven incorrect with regards to battery quality?
    "Do not boast old woman, your death sits in that cage."
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  5. Bla1ze's Avatar
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    #5  

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownIsle View Post
    Wow, interesting. Cool thanks!

    How do we know this, has that talk about not leaving on the charger for a long a@$ time been proven incorrect with regards to battery quality?
    Experience. lol
    Answers are easy. It's asking the right questions which is hard. - The Doctor

    [ Mobile Nations Sites: Android, iOS, Windows Phone, BlackBerry, Connectedly]
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  6. CrownIsle's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #6  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    It's fine provided you're using a charger that is volted for that battery. Like, the one it came with. The battery can become unstable if it's overcharged using a charger that is set for a higher voltage. Use the charger it came with or one that has the same voltage and there will be no issues at all.
    Yup, using the one it came with.

    So, using the charger from my 9810, acceptable?
    "Do not boast old woman, your death sits in that cage."
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  7. jaleelhamid's Avatar
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    Not acceptable I believe

    Posted via BlackBerry 10
  8. Kat0908's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownIsle View Post
    Yup, using the one it came with.

    So, using the charger from my 9810, acceptable?
    I don't think the older chargers provide enough juice for the Z10. I've read about people using their phone while plugged in to one of the older chargers and the Z10's battery actually depleted instead of charged. I would stick with the charger you received with your Z10
  9. Vector-SS's Avatar
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    I'm using the 9700 charger which has 5V 700amp as opposed to the OEM 5V 750amp.

    Very close in numbers and I use the 9700 charger overnight as it pushes less juice.

    Posted via CB10
  10. CDM76's Avatar
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    #10  

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownIsle View Post
    Yup, using the one it came with.

    So, using the charger from my 9810, acceptable?
    I use my 9800 charger and no problems so far.
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    Can you use the PlayBook charger or is that too much juice?

    Posting from Z10

    Posted via CB10
    "God controls the weather, I control the Storm"
  12. CDM76's Avatar
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    #12  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat0908 View Post
    I don't think the older chargers provide enough juice for the Z10. I've read about people using their phone while plugged in to one of the older chargers and the Z10's battery actually depleted instead of charged. I would stick with the charger you received with your Z10
    Only while using it heavily (playing games etc). The Z10 battery may charge SLOWER with an older charger, but it still charges and is at full charge in the morning.
  13. Heinz Katchup's Avatar
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    #13  

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    Great question! Been waking up in the middle of the night to unplug my phone. As I was under the impression it was bad news to continue to charge a fully charged battery.

    I will now sleep like baby knowing it doesn't matter. Thanks!

    Posted via CB10
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  14. jrlong's Avatar
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    #14  

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownIsle View Post
    Is that thing they used to say about, NOT leaving it charging all night when it's already charged in a couple hours- being bad for battery life, just a myth or not hold true in the Zed's case?
    The short answer: should be no problem.

    The long answer (I design hardware with lithium batteries and chargers): A lithium ion battery charger integrated circuit (IC) takes care of charge management. This chip is in the phone, not in the little cube or in your computer. Whatever you plug into your Z10 feeds this IC, but it modulates the voltage that the battery sees. It runs a "constant current, constant voltage" charge cycle to properly charge your battery even though your input charging voltage is a constant 5V. A really dead battery will charge with maximum current (looks like 1300mA off the wall cube which is quite fast) but starts with a lower voltage (maybe 3.6V). As the battery charges, the voltage will rise up to 4.2V but current is constant. Once the battery has reached 4.2V, the charge cycle switches to constant voltage mode and current starts ramping down. This is why you can do a quick charge on your battery in about two hours, but a full battery charge takes 4-6 hours. As the battery gets close to 100%, the charger IC will switch off. The battery will discharge a bit until the voltage is low enough to reactivate the charger. Depending on the current draw of the device, this "top-up" cycle might happen as often as every 15 minutes, or maybe as long as every 3 hours.

    Lithium ion battery chemistry also does not have "memory" like other battery types, so you don't have to worry if you charge a half-full battery.
    As far as what you plug in? You're probably good for anything 4.4V - 5.5V. Lots of the charger ICs I use are rated to 7V. If you plugged in a higher voltage, hopefully the charger circuit has over voltage protection and would just block that, but no guarantees. You really shouldn't ever plug in a power source that was not designed for a product. However, because BB uses a USB charger, you can safely plug in any USB charger to the Z10.

    Other notes:
    - The Z10 battery is 1800mAh (mAh = milliamp hours). If your device only draws 1mA, it will run for 1800 hours. It probably draws an average of 100mA, though, which is why it lasts 18 hours. Since the charger can provide 1300mA, technically you could charge the battery in 1800mAh/1300mA = 1.4 hours. BUT, the charging function is only about 80% efficient, and the full charging current is only done to about 80% of capacity.
    - I had a battery app on my Z10 that always reported the charging current as 1300mA even when the battery was fully charged. I figured they were just detecting if the charger was plugged in and assuming that meant it was fast charging. I deleted that app.
    - If you're charging from a powered USB 2.0 port, the most you can charge at is 500mA per the USB 2.0 spec -- that's all the USB power source is supposed to provide.
    - There's a chance that old BB chargers were not built to supply 1300mA of current, so they might not be as good at charging the Z10.
    - If you followed all this, you should be satisfied to know why a busy Z10 could indeed drain its battery while charging (the device is simply taking more current that what is being replenished by the maximum allowed charger current). There are a few other factors in there, but I don't think anyone's read this far.

    Lastly, since this is a novel anyway, here's a link to a lithium ion charging IC that I've used (see page 9 of the datasheet for the charging profile):
    Battery Management Products - Battery Charger Solutions - BQ24086 - TI.com
    I tried to find a data sheet for the Qualcomm PM8921 power management IC that's in the Z10, but no luck. Qualcomm is not exactly an "open source" company... It likely runs a very similar charging profile as the TI part.
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  15. knighty2112's Avatar
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    #15  

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    Been testing charging my battery overnight for the last 2 weeks. Battery guru still reporting a battery health of between 93 to 96%, which is what it was reporting even when I took it off charge before I went to sleep, so seems OK so far. Obviously over a couple of years things maybe different, but I can change the battery if required in future, so no big deal.

    Whoosh.....!!!!!!!!!! Careful! Z10 in action here!
  16. poorboy75's Avatar
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    #16  

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlong View Post
    The short answer: should be no problem.

    The long answer (I design hardware with lithium batteries and chargers): A lithium ion battery charger integrated circuit (IC) takes care of charge management. This chip is in the phone, not in the little cube or in your computer. Whatever you plug into your Z10 feeds this IC, but it modulates the voltage that the battery sees. It runs a "constant current, constant voltage" charge cycle to properly charge your battery even though your input charging voltage is a constant 5V. A really dead battery will charge with maximum current (looks like 1300mA off the wall cube which is quite fast) but starts with a lower voltage (maybe 3.6V). As the battery charges, the voltage will rise up to 4.2V but current is constant. Once the battery has reached 4.2V, the charge cycle switches to constant voltage mode and current starts ramping down. This is why you can do a quick charge on your battery in about two hours, but a full battery charge takes 4-6 hours. As the battery gets close to 100%, the charger IC will switch off. The battery will discharge a bit until the voltage is low enough to reactivate the charger. Depending on the current draw of the device, this "top-up" cycle might happen as often as every 15 minutes, or maybe as long as every 3 hours.

    Lithium ion battery chemistry also does not have "memory" like other battery types, so you don't have to worry if you charge a half-full battery.
    As far as what you plug in? You're probably good for anything 4.4V - 5.5V. Lots of the charger ICs I use are rated to 7V. If you plugged in a higher voltage, hopefully the charger circuit has over voltage protection and would just block that, but no guarantees. You really shouldn't ever plug in a power source that was not designed for a product. However, because BB uses a USB charger, you can safely plug in any USB charger to the Z10.

    Other notes:
    - The Z10 battery is 1800mAh (mAh = milliamp hours). If your device only draws 1mA, it will run for 1800 hours. It probably draws an average of 100mA, though, which is why it lasts 18 hours. Since the charger can provide 1300mA, technically you could charge the battery in 1800mAh/1300mA = 1.4 hours. BUT, the charging function is only about 80% efficient, and the full charging current is only done to about 80% of capacity.
    - I had a battery app on my Z10 that always reported the charging current as 1300mA even when the battery was fully charged. I figured they were just detecting if the charger was plugged in and assuming that meant it was fast charging. I deleted that app.
    - If you're charging from a powered USB 2.0 port, the most you can charge at is 500mA per the USB 2.0 spec -- that's all the USB power source is supposed to provide.
    - There's a chance that old BB chargers were not built to supply 1300mA of current, so they might not be as good at charging the Z10.
    - If you followed all this, you should be satisfied to know why a busy Z10 could indeed drain its battery while charging (the device is simply taking more current that what is being replenished by the maximum allowed charger current). There are a few other factors in there, but I don't think anyone's read this far.

    Lastly, since this is a novel anyway, here's a link to a lithium ion charging IC that I've used (see page 9 of the datasheet for the charging profile):
    Battery Management Products - Battery Charger Solutions - BQ24086 - TI.com
    I tried to find a data sheet for the Qualcomm PM8921 power management IC that's in the Z10, but no luck. Qualcomm is not exactly an "open source" company... It likely runs a very similar charging profile as the TI part.
    Thanks for the awesome explanation! Appreciate it
  17. pandapurple's Avatar
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    #17  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Katchup View Post
    Great question! Been waking up in the middle of the night to unplug my phone. As I was under the impression it was bad news to continue to charge a fully charged battery.

    I will now sleep like baby knowing it doesn't matter. Thanks!

    Posted via CB10
    You won't be sleeping soundly if you sleep like a baby. J/k

    Posted via CB10
    Buy the Z10 because you choose to. Enough reason in itself.
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  18. Duffman19's Avatar
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    #18  

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    I keep it plugged into pb charger all night. I'll just buy a new battery if it caps out

    Posted via CB10 from my BlackBerry zed one zero
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  19. CrownIsle's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #19  

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    I'm only using the charger it came with now . . . . so I'll just pack that up with me all the time to be sure I have that one on hand. Yall rock for all the insight and the likes!

    When I can, I think the charger bundle is in order here ;-)
    "Do not boast old woman, your death sits in that cage."
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  20. pandapurple's Avatar
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    Bump.

    Posted via CB10
    Buy the Z10 because you choose to. Enough reason in itself.
  21. CrownIsle's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #21  

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    Bump for what?
    "Do not boast old woman, your death sits in that cage."
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  22. brkdncr's Avatar
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    #22  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bla1ze View Post
    It's fine provided you're using a charger that is volted for that battery. Like, the one it came with. The battery can become unstable if it's overcharged using a charger that is set for a higher voltage. Use the charger it came with or one that has the same voltage and there will be no issues at all.
    Luckily, no USB chargers are rated for anything except 5V, which is the USB spec. Any micro usb charger will work, some charger faster than other due the mA they can push. Probably the best would be the 2100mA charger from the Playbook.

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