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  1. gilroyneil's Avatar
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    Default New switcher. Switching back. My thoughts.

    Hi,

    I dont want to be a troll or annoy anyone, but I guess that there are people reading this forum who are iOS/Android owners considering a switch to BB10 and the Z10. I want to post my thoughts on why the Z10 is not competitive for those people to read. If you are a staunch BB supporter you will probably think I am an ***** or just plain wrong.

    For info, I own a iPhone 5 and a Google Nexus 4 and I enjoy technology and phones. In the last 4 months I have also owned a Note 2 and a Lumia 920.

    Reasons why BB10/Z10 is not ready and competitive with iOS/Android:

    1. The device itself is fine. Nothing great. Its not as nice as an iPhone (its more plasticy and weighs more) but probably on par with the Nexus 4.
    2. The camera is OK. Nothing more. Not as good as the iPhone or a Note 2 I had before, but better than the Nexus 4.
    3. The screen is nice but not as bright as the iPhone. About the same as the Nexus 4.
    4. The Hub is nothing more than a glorified Notification Center with a sloppy UI. The paradigm of having all notifications mixed together is... different.. and for me it neither wins nor loses. I personally prefer pulling down from top of screen on Android or IOS but its roughtly similar.
    5. Evernote integration in Remember is pathetic. Useless. Doesn't sync back to regular Evernote clients and the only view is alphabetical. UPDATE - after a reboot, the notes did sync back to Evernote. Still there is no rich text editing/sorting but its not *as* bad as I first thought.
    6. The Gesture UI is fine but no more convenient than a home button. In fact, I think its easier to press a home button than make the same gesture over and over and over
    7. Apps... wow. If you are used to IOS or Android be prepared for a shock, the situation on BB10 is worse than Windows Phone. The apps, by and large, are terrible or simply links to web pages. There is no Youtube app, no BBC iPlayer, no Spotify, no decent Podcast app (Podcasts is not a decent app), no Evernote, no Skype, no TeamViewer. And so on. What apps there are are v1.0 apps like the first batches of Windows Phone 8 apps. This will improve but if you compare to iOS or Android its another world and simply years behind.
    8. Browser is OK. About the same as iPhone or Android. But 1 annoying bug prevents me from using it - you can change the Search provider but only to Google.com and not google.co.uk so most of the search results are less relevant to me.
    9. BB Link on my Mac is OK. But it screws up the iTunes metadata for videos, and cannot group by metadata so ALL Movies and TV Shows are lumped together in a list. Rubbish.
    10. HTML Email wont fit to screen so you will be horizontal scrolling.
    11. Battery Life. To be fair I haven't owned it for very long (I need to return it within 7 days) but its not good. About as good as the Nexus 4 - i.e. Poor - and nowhere near the battery life of the iPhone 5.
    12. Email is worse on the BB than it is on iPhone and Android. I have 2 Google EAS accounts. I set both up as EAS accounts on the BB. Emails arrive more or less same time as other devices but when you read them on the BB, it isnt sending back the "READ" command to the server so the messages will appear as Unread on all other devices. What an annoying bug.
    13. BBM is useless to new converts as chances are they wont know anyone else with a BB.
    14. Notifications arrive very slowly (e.g. Twitter mentions etc).

    I have many more complaints too, but i think I will stop there.

    Some of this can be fixed easily, some cannot.

    My honest advice is this: in 2013 with a new iPhone about 6 months away and the new generation of 1080p Androids weeks away, this phone feels out of place. It should have been released in this state 2 years ago around iOS 4 and Gingerbread/Honeycomb. Thats what if could actually compete against. but against Jelly Bean and iOS 6 and the hardware on offer, its not good enough.
    Last edited by gilroyneil; 02-07-2013 at 09:30 AM.
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  2. calkenneth's Avatar
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    Posting your honest opinion in a fair and constructive way is hardly worthy of a troll label. This encourages healthy discussions! We know that BB monitors these forums so this will only help make the product better.

    Apps will come - you're comparing a new player in a relatively mature ecosystem to an established player (android/apple) so naturally it takes time.

    Sorry you didn't like the device!
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  3. omega supreme's Avatar
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    Wow, another one of these... What about for people that never used an iphone or any of the latest androids?? In which case the z10 is leaps and bounds better and more convenient than anything they had previously... You say that some of your issues can be fixed later which is true, but you should have known this with a little research and opt to buy it LATER... This is why i didn't mind that it wasn't released in the U.S. with everywhere else, i know that by the time it does, most of those "issues" will be addressed...
    And your issue with google is not a hardware problem it's google that is making it difficult for blackberry (for obvious reasons)...and the number of apps is a biased and closeminded argument cause ios and android have about a 5 yr head start. A LOT of developers are working on hundreds if not 1000s of apps as we speak and will continue to grow as time goes by. Besides, can you honestly say you use over 20 apps on your phone right now? Then what's the point of having a million at your disposal? All that does is clutter the marketplace if you ask me...but that's just me.
    I for one don't see myself buying that overpriced thing called an iphone from the monopolizing evil empire that is apple... God forbid you should run out of memory on your iphone cause it will cost you another 200 or so to get another one with more memory; which of course you don't mind paying. You are exactly their type of customer, have fun giving them your money while being tracked by google's horde...

    You're entitled to your opinion but it seems that it isn't with an open mind. Not everyone collects phones like you have, not everyone uses the apps you do. I have been using a blackberry 9700 for 4 yrs, which is ancient in tech yrs but it has suited me fine up until the last year or so with insufficient memory, leaks and constant battery pulls. Could i have bought another phone? Sure but i have never paid more than 50 dollars for a phone (because a better one will be out in a few months anyway) and i wasn't about to with an iphone or android... I held out for the z10 for close to a year now, and i already know it will fit my needs without breaking my wallet.
    Last edited by omega supreme; 02-07-2013 at 05:07 AM.
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  4. DaNii1985's Avatar
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    Very honest opinion and respect to your bravery for coming to CB and rant about other platforms. I'll not answer you but you can read red line in my signature for that I'm well satisfied with my Z10 because it's the start of new era for BB. Timing could be late but hey its better to be late than never. About the looks of phone, everyone who sees the phone in my hand goes on oh is it new blackberry it look amazing. I'm not talking about my friends or family but random people at my work or at bus stop! I still don't understand the need of big app collection because my social life is so busy that I hardly find time to even try any app which they review as good. Maybe for users like you having a phone with loads of apps is a big thing but trust me not everyone is crazy about apps in this world
    Nokia 3310> Nokia 8210> Nokia 1110> Nokia 7610> Nokia N95> iPhone 3G> Nokia N900> Blackberry 9700> Blackberry 9900 White> Blackberry Z10

    I believed in Blackberry Z10 and now a proud owner of it

    For all those people who try to talk about how good their phone or OS is, listen, if they were so 'amazing' then I would have left BB long ago and CB would be dead by now. Point is not that I believe I made the best choice among all available phones but I made a choice which serves me best!!!
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  5. gilroyneil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega supreme View Post
    Wow, another one of these...
    I for one don't see myself buying that overpriced thing called an iphone from the monopolizing evil empire called apple... You are exactly their type of customer, have fun giving them your money while being tracked by google's horde.
    Have you tried an iPhone or Android device? Sometimes its fun and interesting to try other platforms. My post was mainly aimed at people who are not already BB users. If you are you would probably appreciate the improvements but I would also advise you to try new iPhone and Android devices as well.
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  6. DaNii1985's Avatar
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    Oh and for the record, got 4 iphones and 1 mini ipad brand new up for sale, if you are interested let me know because I am not even bother to open those boxes since my crazy friend circle gifted me all those thinking iphones are the only product left in market to gift :/
    Nokia 3310> Nokia 8210> Nokia 1110> Nokia 7610> Nokia N95> iPhone 3G> Nokia N900> Blackberry 9700> Blackberry 9900 White> Blackberry Z10

    I believed in Blackberry Z10 and now a proud owner of it

    For all those people who try to talk about how good their phone or OS is, listen, if they were so 'amazing' then I would have left BB long ago and CB would be dead by now. Point is not that I believe I made the best choice among all available phones but I made a choice which serves me best!!!
  7. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    Phil mickenson is waiting for you
  8. Whyareallthegoodnamestaken's Avatar
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    Default New switcher. Switching back. My thoughts.

    It's all relative. Personally I find iOS's notification centre to be a poor excuse for a hub with a sloppy UI, and the home button an anachronism. :-p
  9. mikeycollins13's Avatar
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    A lot the comments seemed very valid. The unread email thing is very annoying....But this is version 1 of a new OS and I expect there will be upgradades to address a lot of these kinks and nags and you will end up with the winning OS, fresher than the Iphone and crisper than Android.
  10. jdhooghe's Avatar
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    I had a 4S(sold it), a Nexus 7(sold it) and currently have a 920 for a phone. The phone is incredible, I love Nokia but it seems like Microsoft just doesn't give two ****s about its own platform which is why I am looking at BB10. I don't want Android and I want something other than iOS which is basically just a launcher in my eyes. I love WP8 because it integrates rather than separates. BB10 has potential in my eyes but the things that make Blackberries blackberries are not there anymore which is why I'm hoping that they will be fixed by the time the Z10 and the Q10 are released in the U.S. I applaud your bravery in posting what you did anyway. There are a LOT of fanboys and girls on this forum who look down on anyone who uses Android or iOS when in reality they are just as much a sheep as iOS and Android fanboys and girls.
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  11. gilroyneil's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I would add that the Z10 speaker was really good. I dont know why Engadget review said it was quiet, as it as loud as the iPhone 5/Lumia 920 speaker and just as good quality. Call management was good too - nice UI for making calls.

    I am bored of iOS and to a lesser extent, Android - which is why I have tried Windows Phones and BlackBerry 10. If Apple dont make iOS 7 something really special I suspect a small but significant proportion of customers will migrate to other platforms - which will be very good for Google and maybe good for Microsoft and Blackberry.

    As for a question about "how many apps do I use" - the answer is: not many day to day. I need the following: A decent Twitter client, Skype, Evernote, a Radio Player, and a decent Podcast App. I want: Google Maps (still the best), Spotify, BBC iPlayer, TeamViewer, WebEx and Sky Go. Everything else I can probably live without, though I find airline apps useful when I travel for work. By my reckoning, BB10 has 2 of these apps currently available (Nobex/TuneIn and Cisco WebEx). This will improve over time, yes, but the Apps will likely not be as good as the iOS and Android versions for several years.

    Most of the replies have been really great on here. I just wanted to post my thoughts as I frequented these forums prior to the purchase so I guess others will too.
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  12. Emu the Foo's Avatar
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    This is fair. You are somewhat right because I do kind of want to fight you. But that's only like 20% of me. The rest sees you just comparing and make an assessment. You are not complaining and not knocking it. Only thing is I wish you would spend more time with it. Other than that thanks, and again this is fair and most importantly you actually used the device. Not like other people freaking the eff out saying, "blah blah blah and that's why I won't use blackberry when it comes to the states!" to that I say ***** PLEASE! Use the device before you say anything!

    New switcher. Switching back. My thoughts.-bitch-please.jpg
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  13. Bakamushi's Avatar
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    The OP is right, but I would also add that the Z10, although comparable to the Nexus 4 in terms of hardware, is priced two times more expensive. And then it doesn't have all the nice software of the last version of Android.

    Even if you have the money, it is already arguable whether you should spend 600 euros for the flagships that are around (polycarbonate hull, amoled, IP67 protection, etc.), because however great they are only just phones, and maybe you should get a nice week-end trip or something like that... with a cheaper phone that will do the trick.
    Last edited by Bakamushi; 02-07-2013 at 06:22 AM.
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  14. Bakamushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilroyneil View Post
    As for a question about "how many apps do I use" - the answer is: not many day to day. I need the following: A decent Twitter client, Skype, Evernote, a Radio Player, and a decent Podcast App. I want: Google Maps (still the best), Spotify, BBC iPlayer, TeamViewer, WebEx and Sky Go. Everything else I can probably live without, though I find airline apps useful when I travel for work.

    Yes, but you see your last sentence is exactly the point. There are those big names which you think of as daily use, but also all those specific apps that are so useful on Android and Ios WHEN you need them : your airflight company, your bank, sailing simulation, real estate...............
  15. Rennteam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega supreme View Post
    Wow, another one of these... What about for people that never used an iphone or any of the latest androids?? In which case the z10 is leaps and bounds better and more convenient than anything they had previously...
    In this regard, the Z10 is just "another" smartphone on the market people can choose from.
    I have the Z10 since Tuesday. My daily phone is the iPhone 5 but I also own the SGS3, the Note II and other Android devices (like the Nexus 10 for example, which is a tablet though).
    For me, the Z10 is nothing special. It is just your ordinary middle class smartphone without any highlights. Well...actually there are two highlights, one of them being useless to normal users: The BES support (for corporate users) and the very good software keyboard, which allows fast typing with little errors (which is a software and not a hardware feature).
    Overall, the Z10 will probably be a good device for loyal BB users and maybe even for newcomers who never used a smartphone before (they exist?) but for everyone else, especially for gadget lovers, tech addicts and high end smartphone users, the Z10...how to wrap it up in a nice single word...sucks.
    We can discuss features and updates and whatever all day long but right now, as of this moment, the Z10 isn't even close to the competition and definitely not worth the almost 600 EUR I paid for.
    There is a lot of hype going on right now about the Z10 but I think that those, who own a Z10 or have one on order and who glorify it in any possible way, don't do BB, the BB community and BB users any favor because if BB doesn't understand that the Z10 is "just another smartphone", BB will be out of business in a year from now on.
    I just hope they have something else up their sleeves because with the next Galaxy S4 and iPhone 6 coming along the way this year, BB will be under a lot of pressure.
    Right now, the Z10 can't even keep up with the current competition, so what about the next generation?! Case closed.
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  16. omega supreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilroyneil View Post
    Have you tried an iPhone or Android device? Sometimes its fun and interesting to try other platforms. My post was mainly aimed at people who are not already BB users. If you are you would probably appreciate the improvements but I would also advise you to try new iPhone and Android devices as well.
    It's not so much the product but the company in general. I have revised my original post to include a few more things that i don't like about apple but i'll elaborate here as well... I have a problem seeing a company release 2-3 versions of the exact same phone and only have memory as the difference maker. I have a problem seeing people take that same product for service to an apple store and not allowing you to take it anywhere else, and charge you an arm and a leg to repair. I have a problem with a company that says their phone is the "latest and greatest" only to release yet another version of it a few months later...
    yrs ago i bought a video ipod cause it was all the rage. I pulled it out a year ago due to some traveling and i charged it, the charge lasted about 10 min and that was it... I guess the battery needs replacing which i know i would need to take into an apple store and they will charge me a ridiculous amount of money but not before they try to convince me to upgrade to the "latest and greatest"...no thanks.

    I also tried an android, that being a samsung Behold that literally was the size and thickness of a piece of steak. The battery on that would last me about half a day; longer if i didn't use it at all. To give u an idea, on a full battery if i took about 4 pictures with the flash on the battery would be drained in half. After about a month i returned it and they offered me a free bold 9700 and i have remained with it ever since...aside from that, you can't beat the security of a blackberry which is crucial for me...

    You say this thread is directed at people who may be thinking of switching? You do realize why this site is called CRACKBERRY don't you?
    Last edited by omega supreme; 02-07-2013 at 06:27 AM.
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  17. Rennteam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilroyneil View Post
    Have you tried an iPhone or Android device? Sometimes its fun and interesting to try other platforms. My post was mainly aimed at people who are not already BB users. If you are you would probably appreciate the improvements but I would also advise you to try new iPhone and Android devices as well.
    Don't even bother to make people understand how important it is to have a broader view and experience with other devices.
    When I post something about the iPhone 5 on an Android forum, I get ripped apart to pieces. When I post something about the SGS3 on an iPhone forum, the same happens to me there.
    People want to believe that they always make the right choices and are not very often inclined to listen to other experiences or even consider them to be true.
    "Hey, I bought this phone, it is the best in the world, I spent a lot of money for it and I don't care about what you say...", this is usually the mentality of over 90% of the respective owners.
    It may be a mentality thing, it may be a money thing (not everybody can afford buying the newest gadgets all the time) but what bothers me a lot is that I always get accused of trolling and/or being a fanboy. Seriously? I use all these different devices and I am a fanboy? Not the ones who use only a single device?
    I do not want to make the Z10 look bad, it is in my opinion the best BB device on the market so far and BB 10 is in many regards better than the older OS but BB still isn't "there", still can't keep up with the competition. It is sad, it is the truth and I really hope that they realize it as soon as possible. I want BB to stay alive, a good competition is always important to put pressure on developing new and better stuff. Unfortunately I cannot see how BB and even Nokia will survive this. Sad.
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  18. Oscar_E's Avatar
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    1-A lot of what you're complaining about is customizable
    2-of course they will be a couple off bugs, which will get fix really soon with updates
    3-the home button is just something you are use to, but if you see every future tech, even in movies, it's all going to be about gestures, imagine a big window (glass) that you can interact with, wouldn't it look really weird if it has a button in the middle ??? the home button is gonna get obsolete before you know it.
    4-can you reply email, text, whatsapp, msn, FB, Twitter, etc. without even leaving the notification center in iOS or Android ? i know iOS does FB and Twitter, but not everything like you can do that from the BB hub !!
    5-battery life is relative to how much you use your phone, i assume you haven't been able to put down your Z10 lol !!

    I respect your choice, and i agree with standing up for your brand of preference, but i think it's not to smart to troll in a BlackBerry nation. cheers my friend, and good luck
  19. gilroyneil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omega supreme View Post
    I also tried an android, that being a samsung Behold that literally was the size and thickness of a piece of steak. The battery on that would last me about half a day; longer if i didn't use it at all. To give u an idea, on a full battery if i took about 4 pictures with the flash on the battery would be drained in half. After about a month i returned it and they offered me a free bold 9700 and i have remained with it ever since...aside from that, you can't beat the security of a blackberry which is crucial for me...

    You say this thread is directed at people who may be thinking of switching? You do realize why this site is called CRACKBERRY don't you?
    I agree with some of your sentiments with Apple, but I would argue that they probably do offer the best customer service of any phone manufacturer right now. Plus they actually have shops where you can get tech advice and service repairs performed.

    As for the Android you tried, I don't know which it was but I would suggest that the S3 is the closest premium Samsung which will go against the Z10 and its is arguably better in hardware terms (camera, battery life, weight). Its also 10% - 20% cheaper than the Z10 here in the UK (probably because we are only about 4 months away from the S4).

    And I do realise I am on Crackberry.com. As I keep stating, there will be people looking at these forums right now who are interested in the Z10 who are not currently BB owners. For the next few months - at least until the Q10 launches in the US I would guess - there will be new users to this forum who are not BB fans who may appreciate a switcher's view. If they dont, then thats fine too. I found it cathartic to write some of this down as I wasn't expecting to be returning the device so quickly and feel disappointed in myself for buying it despite reading what were (on reflection) very honest independent reviews like Engadget/Verge etc from people that don't use a BlackBerry every day.
  20. omega supreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennteam View Post
    Overall, the Z10 will probably be a good device for loyal BB users and maybe even for newcomers who never used a smartphone before (they exist?) but for everyone else, especially for gadget lovers, tech addicts and high end smartphone users, the Z10...how to wrap it up in a nice single word...sucks.
    We can discuss features and updates and whatever all day long but right now, as of this moment, the Z10 isn't even close to the competition and definitely not worth the almost 600 EUR I paid for.
    There is a lot of hype going on right now about the Z10 but I think that those, who own a Z10 or have one on order and who glorify it in any possible way, don't do BB, the BB community and BB users any favor because if BB doesn't understand that the Z10 is "just another smartphone", BB will be out of business in a year from now on.
    I just hope they have something else up their sleeves because with the next Galaxy S4 and iPhone 6 coming along the way this year, BB will be under a lot of pressure.
    Right now, the Z10 can't even keep up with the current competition, so what about the next generation?! Case closed.
    The problem is that the tech addicts you mentioned is not the market this phone is geared toward...i don't think it's trying to compete with the rest, it's merely showing everyone that they're not out of the game like everyone thought they were...i don't know how much 600 euros translates to in u.s. dollars but i don't expect to pay more than $130 for it....

    as far as competition goes, if they manage to include all the so called popular apps that people want then it can be said that they are keeping up with the rest... The android devices that you claim to be great is subjective as there are other forums and users proclaiming what they hate about it, personally for me, size and battery life are important factors, and neither the galaxys nor the notes fit that bill...and in case you forgot, blackberry has 6 other bb10 phones that they plan to release by the end of the year so consider the z10 more like an appetizer.
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  21. nocturnal123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilroyneil View Post
    Have you tried an iPhone or Android device? Sometimes its fun and interesting to try other platforms. My post was mainly aimed at people who are not already BB users. If you are you would probably appreciate the improvements but I would also advise you to try new iPhone and Android devices as well.
    I have tried the iphone and an android device didn't like either. The new BlackBerry z10 is by far in my opinion better. The screen on the Z10 is better than iphone retina display and I love the keyboard. Like a lot of other BB users I don't see the need for tons of apps. Screen brightness is not an issue either not sure what you're talking about. Overall I love my Z10 and think everyone should try it.
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  22. DaNii1985's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennteam View Post
    Don't even bother to make people understand how important it is to have a broader view and experience with other devices.
    When I post something about the iPhone 5 on an Android forum, I get ripped apart to pieces. When I post something about the SGS3 on an iPhone forum, the same happens to me there.
    People want to believe that they always make the right choices and are not very often inclined to listen to other experiences or even consider them to be true.
    "Hey, I bought this phone, it is the best in the world, I spent a lot of money for it and I don't care about what you say...", this is usually the mentality of over 90% of the respective owners.
    It may be a mentality thing, it may be a money thing (not everybody can afford buying the newest gadgets all the time) but what bothers me a lot is that I always get accused of trolling and/or being a fanboy. Seriously? I use all these different devices and I am a fanboy? Not the ones who use only a single device?
    I do not want to make the Z10 look bad, it is in my opinion the best BB device on the market so far and BB 10 is in many regards better than the older OS but BB still isn't "there", still can't keep up with the competition. It is sad, it is the truth and I really hope that they realize it as soon as possible. I want BB to stay alive, a good competition is always important to put pressure on developing new and better stuff. Unfortunately I cannot see how BB and even Nokia will survive this. Sad.
    Point is not that I believe I made the best choice among all available phone but I made a choice which serves me best!! That's why people don't like where you tell them here what is better because we all can check what's available in market. If you offer your suggestions to someone who live under the rock then that makes sense but coming to a forum which is here to provide users help or guidance and real life experiences with one specified platform and talk about other platforms doesn't make any sense to me :/ if i like Android or iOS, I will go and post goods or bad a bought it in their forum just to share my experience
    Nokia 3310> Nokia 8210> Nokia 1110> Nokia 7610> Nokia N95> iPhone 3G> Nokia N900> Blackberry 9700> Blackberry 9900 White> Blackberry Z10

    I believed in Blackberry Z10 and now a proud owner of it

    For all those people who try to talk about how good their phone or OS is, listen, if they were so 'amazing' then I would have left BB long ago and CB would be dead by now. Point is not that I believe I made the best choice among all available phones but I made a choice which serves me best!!!
    Thanked by:
    bigbbrybeliever (02-17-2013) 
  23. njblackberry's Avatar
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    Excellent comments and very objective. Notice the ones slamming the OP do not have a Z10.
    I know someone - who has been using BBs a lot longer than most - has a list of 60 items that he has sent to BlackBerry.
    Use what works for you. The Z10 is nice, just not finished yet. And certainly not revolutionary.

    And I do have one. Trying desperately to work around apps that I need to do my job.
  24. Mike Schoor's Avatar
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    I tried my friends iPhone 5 recently and I really found it annoying having to press the home button all the time. It just didnt make sense to me, I just wanted to swipe to go back or close the app. Maybe it is due to watching the demo videos but from what I have seen the Z10 is far more appealing to me than an iPhone or Android.

    If I had to choose any other platform it would probably be WP8 - Lumia 920.

    I tried the Note 2 recently and i didn't find it impressive.

    Still going to wait for the Z10, now if Vodacom SA would just get it in stores already!
  25. diapers's Avatar
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    Frankly, the opinion people who own a large number of different phones within a short amount of time is to be taken with a grain of salt.
    Thanked by 3:
    BB_Bmore (02-08-2013),  MoolahMitch (02-08-2013),  zzzdamian (02-08-2013) 
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