[WhiteSpir1t]

I'm not entirely sure it isn't hardware related. My first Z10 rebooted constantly. I exchanged it for another one and it has not rebooted once. Same version, same software... the exchange was about three weeks after purchase. Just my two cents worth.

Posted via CB10

Have you replaced the sim card? Some others here have had their rebooting issue remedied by merely replacing their sim.

Posted via QNX 8.0.0 MSM8960_V3.2.1_F_R070_Rev:19 armle

[niss63]

Whereas I'm pretty confident that in about 90-95% of cases, it IS software related.

Of course this is true, since all of this hardware runs software, and can be tweaked to minimize conflicts or to widen/narrow parameters so that results don't create problems.

Exchanging a piece of hardware sometimes works because the interaction between the hardware and software is improved, either by a piece of hardware or software that is now falling within expected tolerances.

In my case, swapping the phone fixed the reboot problem, but I believe it was blind luck of the draw - the second phone I received was much older, as far as production date goes, than my original phone. What the difference is I don't know, but that the problem us no longer present is obvious.

I do know one thing - not having to deal with reboots pit me in a much better frame of mind to deal with the shortcomings of the new OS.

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

Have you replaced the sim card? Some others here have had their rebooting issue remedied by merely replacing their sim.

And my bet is that those are the same people that assume that because they swapped their phone and the problem changed, that it was "bad hardware".

Try telling that to the ones who have swapped it 5 times.

Unless a person is capable of doing a binary-identical copy of the complete software load on the failed device to the replacement device and then testing in a controlled environment, they really are in no position to categorically claim "the problem was hardware". Especially with a sample-size of 2.

[WhiteSpir1t]

And my bet is that those are the same people that assume that because they swapped their phone and the problem changed, that it was "bad hardware".

Try telling that to the ones who have swapped it 5 times.

Unless a person is capable of doing a binary-identical copy of the complete software load on the failed device to the replacement device and then testing in a controlled environment, they really are in no position to categorically claim "the problem was hardware". Especially with a sample-size of 2.

I didn't say anything about swapping phones or software load. Not sure how you got all that from my post...

[Omnitech]

I didn't say anything about swapping phones or software load. Not sure how you got all that from my post...

I compared what you were saying, which in summary was along the lines of "You should try swapping the SIM card", to the people who think that swapping other hardware components will fix the problem, but in most cases I think it's not much different from the random chance of changing some variables that most people don't even know about.

Given the overwhelming evidence that recent OS builds solve the problem for MOST people that have tried them, I don't know why people continue to cling to the idea that someone should spend time/money swapping hardware components when the fix is already pretty self-evident.

[Omnitech]

...recent OS builds solve the problem for MOST people that have tried them, I don't know why people continue to cling to the idea that someone should spend time/money swapping hardware components when the fix is already pretty self-evident.

I should modify "MOST" to "THE VAST MAJORITY".... it really is overwhelming, statistically.

So now we hear from the "hardware failure" crowd that "It must just be that they did something in the OS to workaround a hardware flaw."

[lactose]

I should modify "MOST" to "THE VAST MAJORITY".... it really is overwhelming, statistically.

So now we hear from the "hardware failure" crowd that "It must just be that they did something in the OS to workaround a hardware flaw."

I work down in that stuff and for many reasons I won't go into here, we nearly always work with incomplete knowledge. So the kind of certainty you guys throw around is not warranrted. It could possibly be a hardware problem and fixed by a software workaround. When MS or BB buy a package from Qualcomm, there is a LOT that can go wrong in that packagage. Errors in microcode (some of these chips kind of have their own OSes ya know) are gonna bring the machine down, I don't care what your OS is. And kudos to QNX for keeping most everything out of kernel mode. My guess is there is a hardware / firmware issue here in the Qualcomm package.

[WhiteSpir1t]

I compared what you were saying, which in summary was along the lines of "You should try swapping the SIM card", to the people who think that swapping other hardware components will fix the problem, but in most cases I think it's not much different from the random chance of changing some variables that most people don't even know about.

Given the overwhelming evidence that recent OS builds solve the problem for MOST people that have tried them, I don't know why people continue to cling to the idea that someone should spend time/money swapping hardware components when the fix is already pretty self-evident.

Oh I see. So to you, swapping out a sim card is just like swapping for a new phone? Interesting.

Posted via QNX 8.0.0 MSM8960_V3.2.1_F_R070_Rev:19 armle

[n8tiveg]

Reading through a lot of the pages could it be a CDMA issue that is causing the reboots. Since it seems Verizon is having lots of issues mostly. Just curious not sure of the other phone services(ie GSM vs CDMA)

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

I work down in that stuff and for many reasons I won't go into here, we nearly always work with incomplete knowledge. So the kind of certainty you guys throw around is not warranrted. It could possibly be a hardware problem and fixed by a software workaround. When MS or BB buy a package from Qualcomm, there is a LOT that can go wrong in that packagage. Errors in microcode (some of these chips kind of have their own OSes ya know) are gonna bring the machine down, I don't care what your OS is. And kudos to QNX for keeping most everything out of kernel mode. My guess is there is a hardware / firmware issue here in the Qualcomm package.

I'm not dismissing the possibility that it could be hardware related, but given the body of evidence that I have seen (and I have been following this issue like a hawk), including how many millions of other devices are being manufactured with the same exact Qualcomm SoC seemingly without such issues, suggests otherwise.

I just don't get why so many people are resistant to the possibility that it was simply an OS flaw that has now been corrected. I'm inclined to wonder if they are so emotionally invested in having been "right" all along about the hardware angle, that they are threading themselves through increasingly smaller pinholes trying to keep rationalizing that...

[Omnitech]

Reading through a lot of the pages could it be a CDMA issue that is causing the reboots. Since it seems Verizon is having lots of issues mostly. Just curious not sure of the other phone services(ie GSM vs CDMA)

Many people using GSM/3GPP carriers have the same sorts of issues. Verizon is probably the largest single carrier/seller of Blackberries in the world. (China Unicom has many more customers but they sell very few Blackberries, if any)

[TheScionicMan]

emotionally invested in having been "right" all along

I predicted this would happen 1-2 months ago,

[Omnitech]

Originally Posted by Omnitech
emotionally invested in having been "right" all along

Originally Posted by Omnitech
I predicted this would happen 1-2 months ago,

And if that is an incorrect assertion, and you have proof to back that up, I will be glad to change my stance on that.

The problem with what I was observing for the "hardware is at fault" crowd is that the "proof" for that assertion is all lined-up against them - but that doesn't seem to dampen their zeal for that POV, indeed it seems to drive them into more and more convoluted rationalizations.

[Easter Pig]

Aside from the Zorro as in the Mark of.......and the wee canid of the same name.....

What's a Zorro?????

Posted from my gorgeous Z10, which got me into being a BlackBerry fangirl again!!!!!!!!!!

A Zorro is a swashbuckling nabob quick with the sword but slow of wit.

[Omnitech]

A Zorro is a swashbuckling nabob quick with the sword but slow of wit.

Now there's a word I don't see used very often here - nabob.

Only time I can easily recall seeing it used was Spiro Agnew's famous phrase (written by William Safire, actually) about "...nattering nabobs of negativism..."

[deltact]

I'm not dismissing the possibility that it could be hardware related, but given the body of evidence that I have seen (and I have been following this issue like a hawk), including how many millions of other devices are being manufactured with the same exact Qualcomm SoC seemingly without such issues, suggests otherwise.

I just don't get why so many people are resistant to the possibility that it was simply an OS flaw that has now been corrected. I'm inclined to wonder if they are so emotionally invested in having been "right" all along about the hardware angle, that they are threading themselves through increasingly smaller pinholes trying to keep rationalizing that...

I`d just prefer the software fix, for sheer ease of implementation. Although a hardware issue might be nice because then there is the possibility of a refund and switching to the Q10, but that's just a fantasy!

[newcollector]

I have had a random reboot twice: once because the Score app froze, the second time the reason is unknown.

Other than those two times, my Z10 runs like a champ.

Could it be that reboots occur for a number of reasons, not a single reason? Could it be that most occur due to the OS and an upgrade to a 10.1 build will fix the issue? Could it be that some of the reboots occur due to an SD card issue (the card is a class four instead of a class ten, or the card is corrupted)? Is it not possible that a few of those suffering from random reboots have a hardware problem?


Posted via CB10 via my Z10

[ravipiero]

To be honest, I'm beginning to think that a lot of the problems people are reporting here and online in general are fake. I've had my Z10 for a while now and I've had none of the problems that people are going on about. I'm on 10.1 now.

For interest sake, I had a Z10 from the first batch released here in South Africa and I never had any of these problems on that Z10.

I think that this is another case of haters hating because they don't like a good thing that changes socially acceptable norms.

I may be wrong but as I type this post from my faultless BlackBerry Z10 I'm as happy as can be with my Z10.


Edit to add: I have not seen or heard of any of these problems from other Z10 users locally. The only problems I've heard about are not really problems with the phones but rather problems with the users not being willing to spend a little time learning how the new phone works and some people complaining about the absence of BIS on the new phones.

I never had any reboot issues either, but I don't think it's fake. There are a lot of going on inside a mobile system and that might happen. I had my ipad mini wifi problem, it doesn't happen to all user, but some others users are complaining about it in apple forum also.

We are lucky we don't deal with random reboot issue, and I hope those who had this issue find the solution fast.

Posted via CB10

[davinci4real]

Don't know a soul in South Africa that has the reboot issue.
I would guess at the fact that we're all running STL100-1, which there are barely any reports of reboot issues and none originating from SA.
That said unfortunately the reboot issue is true, BlackBerry have posted a bug report and Kevin has just published an article on it as well.
It's borderline impossible to tell who are genuinely users experiencing the problem or trolls hopping along for the ride, but it is happening, so we can't let the trolls stop us from offering help to those who want or need it.
Have a look at Kevin's article, he is getting two different Z10s that are experiencing the reboot to see what kind of troubleshooting the CB team can do.


Posted via CB10 from my Z10

Same thing here in nigeria. no one has the rebooting issues except those that got theirs from a carrier

[davinci4real]

Its a network problem. Modem firmware problem! ( software )

I said it! Carriers right? I haven't seen a person that had the problem on a sim free device

[paulo_mealha]

My reboots ended more or less when I updated to version 10.1.0.2312. The same happened to my wife's Z10. It may just be coincidence but I think is not a hardware problem. Living in Portugal, southern Europe, local carrier.

Posted via CB10

[Omnitech]

Same thing here in nigeria. no one has the rebooting issues except those that got theirs from a carrier

That's because the STL100-1 devices (non-LTE, TI SoC/CPU instead of Qualcomm) basically don't have this problem.