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  1. jasonvan9's Avatar
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    Default L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Screen Resolution:
    L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!-3.png
    BB10 Dev. Alpha Devices are at 1280*768 in a 4.2" screen for a 355ppi... if released today, they would be industry leading
    Mighty Thor confirmed that BB10 device resolutions would be slightly lower at 1280*720 which at the assumed 4.2" screen gives you 350ppi

    L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!-1.jpg
    My only concern is the new Nexus 4 is already matching the resolution (NOTE: ppi is only 320 on Nexus 4) at a very low price point of $299 with 8GB of storage, or $349 with 16GB
    Yes, they both have great screens, but it is one less pitch to a potential customer to buy a new BB10 phone

    Hardware:
    So far, we have nothing to go off of but rumours as to the chipset going into the new L-Series BB10 phones. So far, the consensus is this;
    Rumoured BB10 Device Spec - CrackBerry
    Snapdragon S4 Pro processor @ 1.5-1.7GHz
    Adreno 320 GPU
    Bluetooth 4.0
    802.11a/b/g/n (2.4/5 GHz)
    etc.

    Nexus 4 seems to have the same chipset that has been rumoured for the upcoming L-Series BB10 Device for a very an insanely low price point.
    Official Nexus 4 Spec Sheet - Tech Crunch
    L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!-2.jpg

    This presents a new obstacle that RIM will need to market around to make BB10 a success, but that price point for state of the art hardware is going to be even harder to get around... Even the rumoured superphone Aristo Specs - CrackBerry still only meets the specs of this device that is releasing in Q4 2012 when aristo isnt set to launch until Q2-Q3 2013... by that time, it will be deemed to have mid range specs im sure at the rate android phones are launched.

    Now, arguments against this are:
    1. The screen resolutions arnt an issue, BlackBerry will still have the best PPI so therefore, its better. True, but when the marketing department tries to convince people and explain what "ppi" means... well, just another obstacle and more confusion will likely be the result.

    2. Thor just said in an interview they are not in the specs race, they are in the experience race. This is true, experience always trumps any specs as this has been argued plenty on the forums, but as it has also been discussed, this is BlackBerrys rebirth, is it a mistake to launch without having top of the range specs?

    3. Nexus 4 doesnt have expandable storage, this is a drawback for all of us BB users because we are used to having expandable storage in all of our BB handsets (excluding PlayBook)... but so far google drive is proving to be a popular place to store all of your data... the argument has been made that large games will need to be stored locally on the device, which i could see that hindering the experience for sure. This is still up for debate, so we shall see how it turns out.

    What is the CrackBerry communities thoughts on this? Google launching the Nexus 4 has no doubt made the marketing teams job at RIM harder, and i hope B1aze is right when he said RIM have only scratched the surface in showing us new features of BB10. We will know the answer to this in six months for sure, but in the mean time, has this changed anyones opinion on the matter, especially seeing those specs at that LOW low price?
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  2. Barljo's Avatar
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    #2  

    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Someone compared phone specs to vehicles recently on this forum. I recall they weren't very successful, but I think that they have a point.

    For example, an Aston Martin V8 Vantage has far better specs than my 125cc Honda PCX scooter. However, I have a 3-mile commute, so the Vantage is not the best tool for the job.

    I think that modern phone specs are similar to the above - if your firmware is hungry, then you'll need a quad core. QNX isn't hungry, and the processor should still be an ample sufficiency for the task, and the mpg (battery life) should be much more appealing.

    I'm sure that not many people go "Oh wow, Quad Core!" on their phones. Heck, I'm pretty sure that my laptop isn't even quadcore and that works pretty good for minecraft!
  3. jamezalexander's Avatar
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    the kernal architecture is far more important than the specs of the device. QNX is much greater internally than the monolithic or hybrid kernals of its competitors. If its a spec race BlackBerry will never win. Heins is not about to run in a race he can't hope to keep up with the experience is far more important and that will define bb10s sucess. everyoneignored the STILLL amazing specs of the Playbook because the ecosystem/and by extention the experience was lacking. Nexus 7 (quadcore) vs Playbook. The OSs are just as fluid. Specs aren't all that important just a selling ploy really
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    I just want an OS that is awesome and fluid with a good ecosystem that will provide me with the essentials for my everyday uses.. keep it to the car related terms, I don't need a big blower with side pipes and a double barrel intake.. Just give me a turbo charged 6 with a great gear box and smooth trany and I'm all good!
    Hater of all things APPLE.... Innovation, really? iphone = itouch with a phone, ipad = bigger itouch... give me a break!

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  5. kbz1960's Avatar
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    How much better can screens get? How many people put their eye ball as close as they can to see if it looks perfect up close?

    I agree to leave the spec race to the android mfg's. Specs are nice but how a system works is more important as long as it's smooth.
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  6. Qaxl's Avatar
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    The whole "Experience" argument becomes irrelevant the instant a customer starts comparing specs to a top end android phone before making a purchase. Even if the perfect experience can be achieved with a single core processor, they should put the latest quad core in their flagship just from a marketing perspective, in order to attract SGS3 crowd.
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  7. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    I see both sides of this. On one hand, some users do compare specs and use that decision when buying a phone. On the other hand, said 'specs' don't really make a difference in terms of how it's being used by many of these users.

    I've asked several times for Nexus Tablet owners to give me an example of where their quadcore device benefits from an application that can't be done on dual core. And I've yet to receive a single solitary response. No one has shown me an app that can't be done on dual core or showed an example of how an app runs substantially better due to quad core.

    Same thing with all these PPI wars. I'd bet most customers can't physically see a difference between screens above a certain PPI.
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  8. jasonvan9's Avatar
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Agreed, spec race is not a race Mighty Thor wants to enter, because as you can see from recent product launches, is a never ending war that nobody is a clear winner of for more more 3 months...
    But what if, say the general consumer treats his smartphone purchase like a PC purchase, similar user experiences but you pay extra for the HP, so when a device such as the one listed above has the same HP as your device but for only 329$... it makes it a tougher sell for the experience alone to sell your phone that costs twice the price or more.

    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    Same thing with all these PPI wars. I'd bet most customers can't physically see a difference between screens above a certain PPI.
    PPI wars is also irrelevant, because as you said after a certain level you cant tell with the naked eye.

    The experience we've seen thus far of BB10 from demos, videos, etc... looks to be a new concept to solve the problem of multi-tasking and efficiency on a mobile device and it so far has proven to be the best (arguable, sure). The features we have seen have been excellent, a few are a "me too" feature but many are new and a fresher take on efficiency (take the BB10 keyboard for instance). I just hope there are a lot of features that will act as the hooks and anchors to bring new customers in and keep them.


    I guess what im really trying to say is, BB10 needs to hurry up! I WANT IT!!
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  9. mithrazor's Avatar
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    #9  

    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    Same thing with all these PPI wars. I'd bet most customers can't physically see a difference between screens above a certain PPI.
    Not really. I remember when Kevin was first being toured through QNX Car 2, they had a BB Colt mounted on the dashboard above the radio and stuff. Kevin even said that the ppi had to be greater than iPhone's because the quality of the screen was just that good.

    I'm sure there's still a difference with a higher PPI. It's screen is way more sharper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaxl View Post
    The whole "Experience" argument becomes irrelevant the instant a customer starts comparing specs to a top end android phone before making a purchase. Even if the perfect experience can be achieved with a single core processor, they should put the latest quad core in their flagship just from a marketing perspective, in order to attract SGS3 crowd.
    I see you guys are upset that we don't have top of the line specs like Android. But you have to remember, Android has phones coming out all the time. It would be impossible to keep up with 10 other manufacturers flagships who try to differentiate with each other through specs.

    Trust me when I say this, but the Snapdragon S4 Pro dual core is pretty damn top of the line. It's no quad core. But it's still a damn good chip. Meaning it's as good as dual cores get.

    The quad core has to have another chip for the radio bands where as the dual core has it integrated too.

    We need not stress about the specs! It's still top of the line. It's no where close to being left behind specs like with legacy BBOS.
  10. Masahiro's Avatar
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonvan9 View Post
    2. Thor just said in an interview they are not in the specs race, they are in the experience race. This is true, experience always trumps any specs as this has been argued plenty on the forums, but as it has also been discussed, this is BlackBerrys rebirth, is it a mistake to launch without having top of the range specs?
    This is a platform launch, not a phone launch. The main selling point here would be the brand new OS. I don't think anyone here is excited about trying BB10 primarily because of the phone specs, although I'm not saying it's negligible. I just don't think it's of the utmost importance to come out with a phone that will be ahead of any other phone on the market when it comes out.
    As mithrazor pointed out, it's just not feasible in terms of the economics of competing with a handful of Android OEMs that are engaged in an arms race because that's the only way they can really differentiate themselves other than some changes to the OS.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that once BB10 launches, it will be far easier for RIM to release a phone with better specs more quickly, as they won't be occupied with building the OS from the ground up around a certain hardware configuration. This might be why there's rumours of the Aristo circulating about, which would be a more powerful phone to be released a few months after the L-series.
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  11. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Masahiro View Post
    T
    Another thing to keep in mind is that once BB10 launches, it will be far easier for RIM to release a phone with better specs more quickly, as they won't be occupied with building the OS from the ground up around a certain hardware configuration. This might be why there's rumours of the Aristo circulating about, which would be a more powerful phone to be released a few months after the L-series.
    I do not think that we will see a new model showing up a few months later as that would serve no useful purpose other than to destroy any good feeling that had been generated by the bb10 launch itself, harming sales of those current models in the process.

    I think that "Aristo" or some updated version of those specs show up in a year's time as the replacement to the L-series, it will be just under a year's time, but that is due to the delays with this initial one since you would have to assume that they will want to get back into the pre-holiday season release window for subsequent models.

    If we see any new devices between these first two and that device it will either be another form factor such as a slider or if they can make suitable cuts in the spec, a bb10 curve model, but it will not be one that is purely a better specced version of these first two models.
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Specs aren't everything. If it were, then we'd be seeing HTC and LG at the top of the market right now.

    Sure, I would like the new BBs to have bleeding-edge specs, but there's a lot of overhead involved in maintaining that chase. I'm not totally sure that RIM is up to it.
  13. lnichols's Avatar
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    HTC has shown what a spec race can do. They are racing to non-profitability even though they are matching or beating Samsung Android offerings. You also can't compare pure specs between iOS, Android, BB10 or WP8. They are different OS's and will work differently even with the exact same hardware. RIM and Apple have the advantage of controlling the entire experience and optimizing that experience for the hardware they produce. Having inferior specs hasn't hurt Apple, and having superior specs hasn't helped HTC. Also with this Nexus, it doesn't have LTE support, so that is part of the reason for the lower cost, and LG is trying to break into the US market and probably using low margins to hope to get mind and marketshare.
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Well, it not just about specs. Its about the BlackBerry name. It must be written on my next phone, always
    9630 > 9700 > 9800 + PB > 9810 + PB > 8700 + PB > 9900 + PB > iPhone 4s + iPad 2 > iPhone 5 + iPad 2 > iPhone 5S + iPad 2
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    People really dont care about specs. Only ignorant people use specs to make decisions, ultimately. For instance the iPad Mini is running the A5 processor from the iPad 2. No it doesn't even have a "retina" display. But people will still buy it regardless of how the spec sheet reads.
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Quote Originally Posted by jamezalexander View Post
    People really dont care about specs. Only ignorant people use specs to make decisions, ultimately. For instance the iPad Mini is running the A5 processor from the iPad 2. No it doesn't even have a "retina" display. But people will still buy it regardless of how the spec sheet reads.
    Yes people do, particularly when those specs determine if you'll be able to get an OS upgrade.

    I hear daily from people waiting for BB10 who like the 9900 but won't buy it because it's specs make it unable to run BB10. If I was buying a phone the first thing I I do is check specs and the requirements for the next iteration so I won't be stuck on an old OS.

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  17. Masahiro's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reeneebob View Post
    Yes people do, particularly when those specs determine if you'll be able to get an OS upgrade.
    Tell that to Motorola's customers...
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Masahiro View Post
    Tell that to Motorola's customers...
    Well yeah. Which is why I won't buy a Motorola product anytime soon.

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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Quote Originally Posted by reeneebob View Post
    Well yeah. Which is why I won't buy a Motorola product anytime soon.

    I've got blisters on me fingers!!! from using Tapatalk 2
    What does that mean? Genuine question. I used to be a Motorola user (loved my original Razer flip phone) before I picked up a Palm and then my first BB8900 (loved that track-ball), so if I were ever to switch to Android I would certianly be looking hard at Motorola.
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Quote Originally Posted by whitbags View Post
    What does that mean? Genuine question. I used to be a Motorola user (loved my original Razer flip phone) before I picked up a Palm and then my first BB8900 (loved that track-ball), so if I were ever to switch to Android I would certianly be looking hard at Motorola.
    Motorola is infamous for NEVER updating their phones to the latest Android os, unlike Samsung and HTC. Even when they promised the phone will get the update and even when the phone has the horsepower to run it.

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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Thx. Didn't know that.
  22. Skeevecr's Avatar
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Quote Originally Posted by reeneebob View Post
    Yes people do, particularly when those specs determine if you'll be able to get an OS upgrade.

    I hear daily from people waiting for BB10 who like the 9900 but won't buy it because it's specs make it unable to run BB10. If I was buying a phone the first thing I I do is check specs and the requirements for the next iteration so I won't be stuck on an old OS.
    This is not specs mattering to the extent of quadcore vs dualcore etc though which is what people are typically talking about when they discuss whether specs matter or not, the reality is that specs only matter to that extent if you have nothing else to distinguish upon other than price as HTC are finding to their cost right now.

    I think that if people like what they see from bb10 then they will not worry about the specs because they will be close enough that you would not be sacrificing anything to choose one, on the L-series you would have a fast dualcore, plenty of memory, sufficient and expandable storage along with a beautiful looking display, which are all more than enough for people to consider a phone they wanted because they liked how it ran.
  23. aha
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Comparing to a new OS development, the hardware developemeng cycle is way shorter. As long as RIM get BB10 right, new devices can drop like rain if RIM wants to
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    It in no way makes sense for RIM to drop a high end quad core chip into the new BBs. The only things that jamming an unnecessarily powerful chip into the new BBs would achieve would be making the handsets more expensive. Same for pushing the hardware the same way Android phones do. Spec wars are for Android fans, plain and simple. No-one else even bothers with it. Apple certainly doesn't, neither does WinPho. For them its about getting 'excellent' performance, and anything beyond that is a waste of money. That is how BB10 is being built.

    I honestly have no idea who is ever impressed by DPI and such like. I get why people might prefer a 4.7" screen to a 4", because that's a real difference you see every time you use it, but can ANYONE tell me that you care enough about 15 extra DPI that it would change what you buy ? Really ?

    If you compare anything to the current or (even more ludicrously) near future Android specs, everything looks midrange. The iPhone 5's cpu is a 1.3ghz dual core, device released in Sept. 2012. Compare that to the Galaxy S II's 1.2ghz dual core from Feb. 2011, and to the Galaxy S III's 1.4 ghz quad core, from May 2012. But apple manages to muddle by. It's not just about specs, we are not buying a super-computer. Between different os platforms, the specs are not directly comparable. They just aren't. If you need any proof of that, compare the performance of an old laptop running windows 7 to running it on XP or on Linux. The first one feels horribly sluggish. The other two feel perfectly usable. Why ? Because you can make an impressive OS for just about any hardware profile. Ubuntu running on an Atom chip (or even an ARM chip) looks great and feels good to work with because its designed for those specs.

    Just don't worry at all about specs is what I'm saying. Android always wins there. To go to the car metaphor:

    The latest android phones are drag racers. They have serious horsepower, because they are always competing with other android devices on that level. You measure what's awesome and what's pedestrian by a few extra points on benchmarks. iOS and BB10 are more like BMW's (or if you prefer, insert luxury car brand of your choice). They still have more horsepower than any person can easily use on a day to day basis, and they also have a really exceptional ride. Who cares about top speed when the limit is 70 anyway ? It doesn't make any difference if you top out at 180mph or 300mph, there's only so fast you can go in daily life. Android devices have all that excessive top end available to them, but with no applications there to actually make use of it, what difference does it matter ?
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    Default Re: L-Series specs already being matched, and its only October, uhoh!

    Why does a device have to ALWAYS come down to specs?! Why not discuss WHAT and HOW it can deliver it's features and OS and 3rd party apps to the end user using it and how well it performs. Oh yeah because nobody has any equal measurement of rating to deal with such a paradigm. hmm.
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