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  1. jgrobertson's Avatar
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    Default Goldman Sachs downgrades Blackberry per Bloomberg - "tepid" sales at launch.

    Goldman Sachs has reversed itself on Blackberry today after analysis of launch. Bloomberg blames Blackberry poor marketing support and product positioning.

    "The Z10 went on sale last week in the U.S. -- BlackBerry’s biggest single market -- almost two months after its rollout in the U.K. and Canada. The country is “critical for BlackBerry’s ultimate success,” said Goldman Sachs analyst Simona Jankowski, who found that initial sales at AT&T Inc. and Best Buy Co. stores were “tepid.”

    “Our retail checks at over 20 store locations since March 22, including at AT&T, Best Buy, and RadioShack, revealed a surprising lack of marketing support and poor positioning of the product,” she said in a report today. “We also saw limited advertising around the launch.” "
    10

    Did not Blackberry learn its lesson from the disastrous launch of the Playbook?
    Blackberry seems to not know how to market to retail customers. I thought they had brought in new Marketing people who had the know.

    I noticed the excellent Sprint ads on prime time CBS last night about the new Apple iphone. This is the kind of thing Blackberry needs to be doing. Is their problem money or don't they get it?
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  2. agp101's Avatar
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    Default

    BlackBerry 10 launch has been awesome internationally. They've honestly done a great job at it from adverts to product awareness and marketing, in markets where views on BlackBerry isn't like the US.

    The US lives in a bubble though I don't know what exactly BlackBerry did marketing wise but we can see with windows phone that all the money they threw at it never resulted in device sales. US is too far up Apple and Android's alley and BlackBerry image is already tarnished.
    The odds are stacked against them un this market from virtually every perspective from media to carriers to consumers.. remember everyone is a consumer, even though you are an employee. When this is tarnished, It's not very easy.

    Posted via CB10
  3. jrlong's Avatar
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    Default

    Quite the knee-j3rk reaction by GS. If Verizon and T-Mobile have a stronger showing, are they going to flip the other way? I like the analysts who are taking a breath and waiting to get a clearer picture that will be presented this week.
    Will it be the bears or the bulls dining on crow on Thursday?
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  4. LordCrankypants's Avatar
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    Do manufacturers have any real say on where products get positioned in stores, or is it based on which manudfacturer gives the franchises the most money for advertising? Do franchises decide where products go based on what they think will bring the most money into the stores?

    Everyone is quick to blame BB for the positioning of the phones in the stores, but I'd like to know if it's actually their failure, or if it's the stores doing it on their own.

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  5. greatwiseone's Avatar
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    Default

    They just want to pull share price down so that they can make money when earnings beat Wall Street expectations later this week. LOL.

    Launch on one carrier over one weekend and you get a downgrade. That's treatment of BlackBerry in the US for you.
  6. jgrobertson's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LordCrankypants View Post
    Do manufacturers have any real say on where products get positioned in stores, or is it based on which manudfacturer gives the franchises the most money for advertising? Do franchises decide where products go based on what they think will bring the most money into the stores?
    Everyone is quick to blame BB for the positioning of the phones in the stores, but I'd like to know if it's actually their failure, or if it's the stores doing it on their own.
    JB
    The answer is YES. Manufacturers do have a say in how their products are marketed. That say however, is accompanied by incentives to the retailer in some form. Discounts, kickbacks or some such thing. Also the manufacturer supplies the marketing displays and materials and backs that up with print and TV advertising.

    All this costs money - that may be Blackberry's problem. Also, Blackberry just may not be going after the retail market and relying on sales to corporate accounts. Those of us who have been cheering Blackberry along are clearly disappointed - but that does not mean the end of BB.
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  7. jgrobertson's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by agp101 View Post
    BlackBerry 10 launch has been awesome internationally. They've honestly done a great job at it from adverts to product awareness and marketing, in markets where views on BlackBerry isn't like the US.

    The US lives in a bubble though I don't know what exactly BlackBerry did marketing wise but we can see with windows phone that all the money they threw at it never resulted in device sales. US is too far up Apple and Android's alley and BlackBerry image is already tarnished.
    The odds are stacked against them un this market from virtually every perspective from media to carriers to consumers.. remember everyone is a consumer, even though you are an employee. When this is tarnished, It's not very easy.

    Posted via CB10
    A report yesterday by Beutsche Bank showed that retail sales in Europe while good have not been as outstanding as many would like us to believe. It is important to avoid believing ones own hype which can lead to living in an imaginary world.
    _________________________
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  8. lorax1284's Avatar
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    Default

    I was tapering off. I'm all tapered out now.
  9. LordCrankypants's Avatar
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    Default

    I imagine too, that it's not just the investment of money, but also being able to invest more money than your competition for advertising. BB probably realizes that they can't compete with the advertising budget that Apple and Samsung can bring to the table, so their focus appears to be on the TV and print ads. I just wasn't sure how it all worked, but I get the feeling that there is a push in the other direction by BB's more entrenched competition to try and keep them in the back of the store, out of view. If all that it takes is a few more dollars and kickbacks to the manufacturers, I'm sure that those companies can afford it, where BB is in a position where they can't keep up with that level of budget....yet.

    JB
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  10. Wilsonia Goldens's Avatar
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    #10  

    Default

    And in the first week of April they will upgrade again!
  11. agp101's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jgrobertson View Post
    A report yesterday by Beutsche Bank showed that retail sales in Europe while good have not been as outstanding as many would like us to believe. It is important to avoid believing ones own hype which can lead to living in an imaginary world.
    not living in an imaginary world, but tour assumption is cute, I'll give you that.
    Looking at UK, Canada, Dubai, India, Indonesia, and probably other markets I have not covered have been very successful.

    UK is in Europe. Europe is very vague.. sad that you didn't take your quoted report with a grain of salt. I'm assuming my comment about the US irritated you? I find it was quite realistic and not very critical or disrespectful.



    Posted via CB10
  12. Linda9600's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by agp101 View Post
    BlackBerry 10 launch has been awesome internationally. They've honestly done a great job at it from adverts to product awareness and marketing, in markets where views on BlackBerry isn't like the US.

    The US lives in a bubble though I don't know what exactly BlackBerry did marketing wise but we can see with windows phone that all the money they threw at it never resulted in device sales. US is too far up Apple and Android's alley and BlackBerry image is already tarnished.
    The odds are stacked against them un this market from virtually every perspective from media to carriers to consumers.. remember everyone is a consumer, even though you are an employee. When this is tarnished, It's not very easy.

    Posted via CB10
    I noticed the same thing about Windows Phone. Lots of marketing but still cannot gain sales.

    Also agreed that BlackBerry's image is tarnished in the US. No one believes they can make a comeback; that's why no one at AT&T cares. They've gained the image of being old and irrelevant here.

    I've read many articles about BlackBerry even before the AT&T launch and most comments from people are about them being too late, too irrelevant, cannot keep up. These people haven't even giving them a chance yet and they're already disregarding them. BlackBerry was already branded and it's really hard to change that image.
    agp101 likes this.
  13. anon5771888's Avatar
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    I am here in the USA and allot of folks here like the Blackberry brand, contrary to what people outside the USA think.

    The disappointing fact is there is virtually no advertising what so ever here for a new product that all of the Blackberry faithful and potential new costumers have been waiting for?

    I can understand that TV time is expensive and the market here is dominated by Apple and Android products, but at the bare minimum I would have expected some nice signs or displays showing a picture of this beautiful product to spark the intrest here?

    I went into a T Mobile store this morning and nobody has a clue, all they told me was the Blackberry rep was here a couple of days ago and left us nothing? They haven't even received their shipment of phones yet and the z10 is supposed the launch tomorrow?

    I would have thought some hard effort would have been put into this launch here? I am not pointing any fingers here, I am stating facts.

    I also noticed when I was in the T-Mobile and AT&T stores that there is nothing with the Blackberry name on it, every peice of advertising is geared towards the Apple and Android devices and that is what really concerns me.

    I have always been open minded to other people's observations and opinions and if someone here in the USA has seen anything different, I would love to know??

    Posted via CB10
  14. Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes's Avatar
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    This US launch is turning out to be a fiasco. Why was it not executed as well as the Canadian one? There are so many advertisements, working store models, and dummy units here. And every store has it. I hope frank boublen is not sitting on the beach in caracao with Alec Saunders while this goes on.
    lnichols likes this.
  15. Semi5's Avatar
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    Default

    I blame Alicia Keys
  16. Mister Xiado's Avatar
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    Because American consumers are largely idiots, and genuinely believe that only iPhones can facilitate their vapid ramblings about last night's incorrectly-recalled tales of drunken debauchery and aggravated sexual assault on Facebook.

    Even on Crackberry, people are whining about applications not being available for the Z10, completely ignoring the sideloading thread and the prominently-displayed article on the subject that was on the home page of the site.
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  17. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Sorry it's not even been out a week in the USA.
    Even in the UK my local car phone warehouse store didn't have the z10 for about a week. In fact where I was only phones4u and o2 pushed it for the first week.
    That didnt hurt its sales. Wait for a couple of weeks and it is released over more carriers before forming an opinion

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  18. lnichols's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes View Post
    This US launch is turning out to be a fiasco. Why was it not executed as well as the Canadian one? There are so many advertisements, working store models, and dummy units here. And every store has it. I hope frank boublen is not sitting on the beach in caracao with Alec Saunders while this goes on.
    This!!!!! Botched launch. BlackBerry is apparently only going to do word of mouth campaign and limited ads here in the US. I don't know if it is because the phone is so late and the One and GS4 will be out soon stealing the spotlight and they are just going to hope the next flagship they are already talking about for the Holidays is going to be their US savior or what. And while I know that Thor can't tell Kevin that the US carriers aren't helping them at all, that is the reality. That article Kevin post about great carrier support was the ultimate level of BS that Thor has put out so far!
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  19. darkehawke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Xiado View Post

    Even on Crackberry, people are whining about applications not being available for the Z10, completely ignoring the sideloading thread and the prominently-displayed article on the subject that was on the home page of the site.
    Will ignore the first part.
    But when it comes to apps. Side loading isn't a solution. It's a work around. Not everyone will want to risk their device side loading apps.
    For some, a blackberry is their choice for security, so they won't sideload

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  20. EastYorkJeff's Avatar
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    I don't buy any consumer products based upon how their stock is doing, or what the rumours are about their stock.
  21. agp101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda9600 View Post
    I noticed the same thing about Windows Phone. Lots of marketing but still cannot gain sales.

    Also agreed that BlackBerry's image is tarnished in the US. No one believes they can make a comeback; that's why no one at AT&T cares. They've gained the image of being old and irrelevant here.

    I've read many articles about BlackBerry even before the AT&T launch and most comments from people are about them being too late, too irrelevant, cannot keep up. These people haven't even giving them a chance yet and they're already disregarding them. BlackBerry was already branded and it's really hard to change that image.
    yeah Microsoft threw a lot of money at Windows Phone 8.. didn't get anywhere. This is also why I think BlackBerry isn't putting as much money into it for the US, because while in other markets they have a good position where marketing dollars would have a positive effect, in the US I think most of it would be wasted. It would bring in more customers but not enough to cover the investment in my opinion.



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  22. agp101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Bak View Post
    I am here in the USA and allot of folks here like the Blackberry brand, contrary to what people outside the USA think.

    Posted via CB10
    I would have to respectfully disagree. So would BlackBerry, and they have stated it officially as well. You're living in the bubble I was talking about earlier. You know, when you can't see from the outside in. No offense meant.

    A lot of folks there do not like the blackberry brand..not proportionate to the entire population anyway.



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  23. crawlgsx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agp101 View Post
    I would have to respectfully disagree. So would BlackBerry, and they have stated it officially as well. You're living in the bubble I was talking about earlier. You know, when you can't see from the outside in. No offense meant.

    A lot of folks there do not like the blackberry brand..not proportionate to the entire population anyway.



    Posted via CB10
    I would have to respectfully disagree. A lot of people I know have owned a blackberry in the past and loved it, and the moved on to smartphones where (sorry for whoever I offend) BB had no competition. These same people WANT to see a BB comeback, and a BB device to compete with their iphone/android phone they are currently using. A Fondness for their old BB.

    I am not saying it is the masses, I am just saying I personally know a LOT of people that speak well of their old BB devices and have mentioned interest in the Z10. I have yet to show a single person the Z10 and hear "eww why did you buy a BB" or "BB Sucks" or anything of that sort, yet I heard that COUNTLESS times with my Lumia 920 (Either Nokia hate or Windows Phone 8 hate).
    Chris D.
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  24. missing_K-W's Avatar
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    WTF. Only one carrier has released the z10 in the US. Wait till next week to gauge the launch.
    "I gotta Z10......I gotta Z10....Hey...Hey...Hey....Hey"........
  25. anon5771888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Xiado View Post
    Because American consumers are largely idiots, and genuinely believe that only iPhones can facilitate their vapid ramblings about last night's incorrectly-recalled tales of drunken debauchery and aggravated sexual assault on Facebook.

    Even on Crackberry, people are whining about applications not being available for the Z10, completely ignoring the sideloading thread and the prominently-displayed article on the subject that was on the home page of the site.
    Idiots!!! No we are not idiots, we are EDUCATED CONSUMERS who by the way made Blackberry who they where in the beginning if you would have done your research? As stated on this site by many folks, the Blackberry name is not what it used to be here in the USA and why is that? Well, when you don't release a product in 2 years and the competition has past you by in the left lane without looking in the rear view mirror, you tell me how to rebuild the once great name you had?

    It sure as **** is not going to be by word of mouth, the customers who used to buy your products here have moved on and with good reason. Apple and Samsung have not made billions here and abroad by not building junk as some of your narrow minded faithfull have implied, it's by building quality products both the American and Foreign consumer has asked for.

    Look at the domestic auto industry here in the USA as an example, GM had let complacency settle in and the consumer who use to be loyal to their products had finally got tired of the same old stale thing year after year and the Foreign makers built a product that had what we where looking for. Are the people who changed to driving foreign cars rather then domestic all idiots? No, they are educated consumers and buy products based on a "value added" concept. It's basic business my friends.

    I get so tired of hearing that us Americans hate the Blackberry name here, thats a bunch of **** based on narrow minded thinking. Blackberry made allot of money here in the early days because they build devices that the American consumer wanted, plain and simple. Then came some competition i.e. Apple and Android products and they had something we wanted more and Blackberry failed to update and produce a product that was in line with what the competition had, it's called complacency, sounds just like the American auto industry story doesn't it.?
    Last edited by Ronald Bak; 03-25-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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