Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 144
Like Tree93Likes
  1. Jermanicus's Avatar
    CrackBerry User

    Posts
    34 Posts
    Thread AuthorThread Author   #1  

    Default Blackberry Z10 - no BIS = no secure email

    I've been trying to find out what the absence of BIS on the new Z10 will mean. Here's an interesting article from The Register:

    BIS, bash, bosh: El Reg solves BlackBerry 10 email bafflement ? The Register

    So in other words, for non-BES users who before the Z10 would have to have had a BIS add-on from there service provider, the Z10 will access email like any other smartphone and not securely through BIS. This being the case - what is the difference between the Z10 and any other smartphone?

    The whole point of Blackberries is SECURE E-MAIL. Remove that, the phone is just another smartphone.
    EsJayDee and CDM76 like this.
  2. lfuentesimon's Avatar
    CrackBerry User

    Posts
    21 Posts
    #2  

    Default

    There are many other ways to secure email traffic other than BIS, many secure email protocols are used today by ISPs such as Gmail, Hotmail/Outlook.com, etc... BIS was the secure way to manage email when almost no ISP were using secure email protocols.

    These also means the other smartphones manage email in a secure way nowadays.
    Thanked by 2:
    MasterOfBinary (02-10-2013),  raremage (02-09-2013) 
    southlander likes this.
  3. smartbuddy's Avatar
    CrackBerry Abuser

    Posts
    255 Posts
    Global Posts
    257 Global Posts
    #3  

    Default

    There is no reason to go for Z10 when emails are just as in any other smartphone...Android has all the apps, BB does not...so why buy a z10 when you dont get what was the selling point in Blackberry for years i.e Secure Email, compressed data?
    Thanked by:
    tilapya (02-10-2013) 
    Jermanicus likes this.
  4. b320's Avatar
    CrackBerry Addict

    Posts
    982 Posts
    #4  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanicus View Post
    I've been trying to find out what the absence of BIS on the new Z10 will mean. Here's an interesting article from The Register:

    BIS, bash, bosh: El Reg solves BlackBerry 10 email bafflement ? The Register

    So in other words, for non-BES users who before the Z10 would have to have had a BIS add-on from there service provider, the Z10 will access email like any other smartphone and not securely through BIS. This being the case - what is the difference between the Z10 and any other smartphone?

    The whole point of Blackberries is SECURE E-MAIL. Remove that, the phone is just another smartphone.
    OK, so this article is from February 5, so not "news" at least not as far as tech news goes.

    Also, despite what the article states, BlackBerry did NOT and could NEVER provide "end-to-end encrypted push email" (and BlackBerry never promised to do so) *through* BIS when dealing with other, mostly consumer, email systems. Think about it, a message sent from Gmail to Gmail, let's say BlackBerry devices are on both ends:

    BlackBerry device > [secure path] > BIS > [secure path if Google is willing to cooperate] > Google's Gmail servers > [whatever path Google figures is appropriate] > Google's Gmail servers > [secure path if Google is willing to cooperate] > BIS > [secure path] > BlackBerry device

    Now, let's see what happens when a message would travel from an account with some small-town ISP to an email on some "enthusiast" server, again BlackBerry devices are on both ends:

    BlackBerry device > [secure path] > BIS > [probably plain text] > some rinky dinky email server > [now pay attention here: path = OPEN INTERNETS, most likely in plain text] > another rinky dinky email server, probably even more poorly maintained and full of holes > [most likely plain text] > BIS > [secure path] > BlackBerry device

    With BlackBerry 10, it's up to your email provider to provide secure email to you and your device. If you want more secure email, don't look at BlackBerry, look at your email provider. Of course, if you'd like BlackBerry's actually secure solution (BES), BlackBerry will happily oblige.

    The point of BIS was sanity and convenience for the darker times when most email providers did NOT provide open standards (see AOL, Google and Microsoft) and this created such an issue for mobile devices that BlackBerry figured to take on handling this internally. Now that every legitimate email service supports IMAP and some even support Exchange ActiveSync at no cost, BIS is no longer necessary to have decent interoperability, which was one of the main goals of BIS.
    Last edited by b320; 02-11-2013 at 12:03 AM. Reason: swap "as" for "an" and add a final sentence; correct "provided" to "provide"
    Thanked by 15:
    + Show/Hide list of the thanked
    Bla1ze (02-10-2013),  djdnz (02-09-2013),  howarmat (02-11-2013),  Jake2826 (02-11-2013),  Jermanicus (02-09-2013),  ljfong (02-10-2013),  MasterOfBinary (02-10-2013),  momofteme (02-10-2013),  RubberChicken76 (02-11-2013),  s0be (02-10-2013),  Taigatrommel (02-09-2013),  The Sand (02-20-2013),  twstd.reality (02-10-2013),  uktivo (02-11-2013) 
  5. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,357 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,358 Global Posts
    #5  

    Default

    Dude I work for an MSP and a lot our clients use BIS and BES on their BB's, not one of them has a @blackberry.net account...all their non-BES accounts were setup through their device which how the Z10 does it. I had a @blackberry.net account for the last couple of years and do you how many times I used it? Maybe 50 times.

    So the only "real" thing that has changed is that BIS no longer works, the rest does plus they made a few minor improvements.
    Thanked by:
    b320 (02-09-2013) 
  6. njblackberry's Avatar
    Banned

    Posts
    2,947 Posts
    Global Posts
    3,050 Global Posts
    #6  

    Default

    Improvements like no push e-mail for some accounts and no compression, right?
    Yeah, those are improvements.
    Chriz and Jermanicus like this.
  7. Jermanicus's Avatar
    CrackBerry User

    Posts
    34 Posts
    Thread AuthorThread Author   #7  

    Default

    Interesting, I must admit I didn't know a lot of that.

    I still think it seems like Blackberry are removing a layer of security which has hitherto given us, perhaps erroneously, peace of mind.
    Blackberries:
    Blackberry Playbook 64Gb, Z30, Z10, 9900, 9800, 9105 3G, 8820 Flip x 2, 8520

    History:
    iPhone, Nokia E90 Communicator, Nokia N95, Nokia 9500 Communicator, Nokia 9210 Communicator, Nokia 9110 Communicator, Nokia 9000 Communicator.
  8. smoothrunnings's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,357 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,358 Global Posts
    #8  

    Default

    ActiveSync works flawless, I get emails as they come into my Exchange server. The biggest complaint with BES5 sending emails was that if you didn't have a spam filter device in front of your mail server that spam email would get to your device before it had a chance to be filtered. Going through ActiveSync which is secure is the best route, as far as the other email service providers, I don't live on my computer 24/7 like some of you must do and count the minutes (if it takes a minute or more) as emails come into my accounts and arrive to my device because I have better things to do in my life!

    ActiveSync is fast, our clients who have a mix of BB, Apple and Android emails come in to their devices a second or two before they hit their inbox in Outlook.

    So really stop your freaking complaining because lets face is you have NOTHING to complain about! LOL
    Thanked by:
    b320 (02-09-2013) 
  9. njblackberry's Avatar
    Banned

    Posts
    2,947 Posts
    Global Posts
    3,050 Global Posts
    #9  

    Default

    I guess that settles it. One of the True Believers has spoken. Good for you. There is a beacon of hope. Everyone, run out and get your Zed10s.
    We are done!
    jdhooghe likes this.
  10. b320's Avatar
    CrackBerry Addict

    Posts
    982 Posts
    #10  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanicus View Post
    Interesting, I must admit I didn't know a lot of that.

    I still think it seems like Blackberry are removing a layer of security which has hitherto given us, perhaps erroneously, peace of mind.
    Glad we could converse.

    Yes, there was a false sense of security, just like Mac people think they're secure from Windows problems through "obscurity." But you do have a point. Having BIS did give a peace of mind, namely, that BlackBerry was minding the house and that they were always actively working to make sure that email gets delivered efficiently and quickly.

    Unfortunately, consumers don't feel like paying BlackBerry for email services and being data-efficient has become a much greater liability than an asset vis-a-vis the network carriers who just want to make you rack up as much data usage (and therefore charges) as possible.

    All is not lost, however. BlackBerry 10 is decidedly a more robust, secure platform with much more room to grow than the dated legacy BlackBerry OS. There's only so much you can achieve with bolt-ons. We gain a modern, smooth and attractive OS with support for modern, open technologies implemented in such a way that you're not forcibly tied to BlackBerry's services should you choose not to use them.
  11. taylortbb's Avatar
    CrackBerry Addict

    Posts
    799 Posts
    PIN
    PM me
    #11  

    Default

    The security used in encrypted IMAP or ActiveSync is every bit as secure as BIS, just don't ignore certificate errors if you ever get them. BIS provided a small security advantage when using unencrypted email providers, as it encrypted *part* of the connection, but there's very few email providers that don't offer encrypted connections these days. If you're using a big name it's as secure as BIS.

    On the upside you no longer need a BlackBerry plan, I'm currently traveling and when I was last here with my 9900 I had to make do without email as BlackBerry data was only available on postpaid. Now I just walk into a Vodafone (or other provider) and get a SIM with no problems, a huge improvement compared to before.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
    Taylor Byrnes

    Check out my apps in BlackBerry World - Developer of Memo Pad, VLC Remote, and more
    Z10 Limited Edition + Dev Alpha C + PlayBook
    Thanked by:
    Jonny-R (02-09-2013) 
  12. b320's Avatar
    CrackBerry Addict

    Posts
    982 Posts
    #12  

    Default

    Exactly! Thank you taylortbb.

    Posted using CrackBerry App on BB10
  13. Jermanicus's Avatar
    CrackBerry User

    Posts
    34 Posts
    Thread AuthorThread Author   #13  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by b320 View Post
    Glad we could converse.
    Indeed, a healthy exchange of views!

    I'm at a loss what to think. If BB are now removing BIS then effectively Blackberry is just another smartphone maker. They seem to be pushing us into the cloud whilst at the same time removing cloud syncing (eg BB Protect on Z10 no longer backs up data). I just don't trust big providers like Google not to abuse my personal data. I admit I don't know how to set up truly secure email but if I can do this on ANY smartphone then why do I need a Blackberry? I always felt, perhaps mistakenly, reassured with the level of security on a Blackberry.

    Blackberries:
    Blackberry Playbook 64Gb, Z30, Z10, 9900, 9800, 9105 3G, 8820 Flip x 2, 8520

    History:
    iPhone, Nokia E90 Communicator, Nokia N95, Nokia 9500 Communicator, Nokia 9210 Communicator, Nokia 9110 Communicator, Nokia 9000 Communicator.
  14. jarrodmeyer's Avatar
    CrackBerry Abuser

    Posts
    103 Posts
    Global Posts
    107 Global Posts
    #14  

    Default Re: Blackberry Z10 - no BIS = no secure email

    Quote Originally Posted by b320 View Post
    OK, so this article is from February 5, so not "news" at least not as far as tech news goes.

    Also, despite what the article states, BlackBerry did NOT and could NEVER provide "end-to-end encrypted push email" (and BlackBerry never promised to do so) *through* BIS when dealing with other, mostly consumer, email systems. Think about it, a message sent from Gmail to Gmail, let's say BlackBerry devices are on both ends:
    Exactly. I think the motto in the security industry has always been 'don't send sensitive data over email' anyway.
    Ericsson GA 628 > Nokia 5210 > Sony Ericsson T300 > Sony Ericsson W800 > BlackBerry Curve 8520 > BlackBerry Torch 9800 > BlackBerry Z10
    b320 likes this.
  15. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius

    Posts
    4,021 Posts
    Global Posts
    4,024 Global Posts
    #15  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by smartbuddy View Post
    There is no reason to go for Z10 when emails are just as in any other smartphone...Android has all the apps, BB does not...so why buy a z10 when you dont get what was the selling point in Blackberry for years i.e Secure Email, compressed data?
    Are you telling people who bought one that they're full of crap because they don't share your opinion?
    ------------------------------------
    I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?

    The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
  16. Jonny-R's Avatar
    CrackBerry Abuser

    Posts
    178 Posts
    #16  

    Default

    Can't really add anymore. Just to interject that BBM is encrypted on the devices themselves and transmitted with encryption. So with properly set up E-Mail, things are as secure as before. Also, regarding the 'push' issue, my Playbook genuinely receives e-mails before my 9780, so I'm sure this will also be fine. I may miss compression, at times, but times are changing..
    Thanked by 2:
    raremage (02-09-2013),  world traveler and former ceo (02-09-2013) 
  17. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius

    Posts
    4,021 Posts
    Global Posts
    4,024 Global Posts
    #17  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny-R View Post
    Can't really add anymore. Just to interject that BBM is encrypted on the devices themselves and transmitted with encryption. So with properly set up E-Mail, things are as secure as before. Also, regarding the 'push' issue, my Playbook genuinely receives e-mails before my 9780, so I'm sure this will also be fine. I may miss compression, at times, but times are changing..
    Great point about changing times. While a few of the Blackberry faithful clung to how push was done and compression was done, the smartphone market clearly showed that it didn't care about those things. Witness the early days of the iPhone on AT&T taking down the network all the time due to the data it used. Carriers certainly weren't doing RIM any favours over compression and what it did to preserve their network either. That begs the question of whether or not the need for the NOC as it exists today is justified. Having those huge data centres in multiple countries can't be cheap. What's the ROI for RIM now?
    ------------------------------------
    I like how BlackBerry 10 is evolving, but when are they going to fix BlackBerry Link for Mac?

    The fact that it doesn't reliably do what it's supposed to do ... most of the time ... is utterly appalling. The only consistency is the "Music not copied to Z10 message"
    Thanked by:
    raremage (02-09-2013) 
  18. Jonny-R's Avatar
    CrackBerry Abuser

    Posts
    178 Posts
    #18  

    Default

    This is speculation, but I'd like to think that the NOC now paves the way for RIM BlackBerry to leverage secure data transfer in other markets; therefore they've tapered down how it's used by consumers' smartphones. Probably because it's genuinely not needed. They have hinted at this but I suppose we'll be a way off and a lot rides on how BB10 fares!

    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    Great point about changing times. While a few of the Blackberry faithful clung to how push was done and compression was done, the smartphone market clearly showed that it didn't care about those things. Witness the early days of the iPhone on AT&T taking down the network all the time due to the data it used. Carriers certainly weren't doing RIM any favours over compression and what it did to preserve their network either. That begs the question of whether or not the need for the NOC as it exists today is justified. Having those huge data centres in multiple countries can't be cheap. What's the ROI for RIM now?
  19. pels_17's Avatar
    CrackBerry Abuser

    Posts
    258 Posts
    Global Posts
    263 Global Posts
    #19  

    Default

    This is an informative thread. Is iCloud a secured email?
  20. Jermanicus's Avatar
    CrackBerry User

    Posts
    34 Posts
    Thread AuthorThread Author   #20  

    Default

    I think there is at best confusion 'out there' regarding secure email. Speaking for myself I was certainly under the impression that BIS with encryption of 256bit was more secure than ActiveSync which even today I think uses only SSL encryption of 128bit - please correct me if I'm wrong, I freely admit I don't know as much about this as I should.

    I guess the point I was making is that if Blackberry are removing all the security features that were the traditional Blackberry hallmarks, then what exactly is the thrust of the company's business? Effectively the Z10 will just be another iClone.

    There is a security issue as well. If I lost my Blackberry with BIS, and someone put a non-BIS enabled sim in the handset (assuming I was dumb enough not to set a password lock), they would NOT be able to access my emails at all as the handset would not connect to the Blackberry servers. If they put in a BIS enabled SIM, they would have to re-verify the password for all my email accounts. On the Z10, I managed to swap sims from my other handset and I was able to access my emails. So if I lost the handset or it was stolen there is no in-built protection compared to using a handset which required a BIS-enabled SIM. This is surely a step backward.
    Blackberries:
    Blackberry Playbook 64Gb, Z30, Z10, 9900, 9800, 9105 3G, 8820 Flip x 2, 8520

    History:
    iPhone, Nokia E90 Communicator, Nokia N95, Nokia 9500 Communicator, Nokia 9210 Communicator, Nokia 9110 Communicator, Nokia 9000 Communicator.
    Thanked by:
    smartbuddy (02-09-2013) 
    smartbuddy and JR A like this.
  21. ealvnv's Avatar
    CrackBerry Master

    Posts
    1,333 Posts
    Global Posts
    1,339 Global Posts
    #21  

    Default

    Dear Google what is BlackBerry Internet Service? LOOK HERE
    Z30 on AT&T - OS 10.2.XXXX as a daily driver
    HTC ONE Google Play Edition, Nokia Lumia 1020, Iphone 5S for development and testing.
    Ipad Mini with Retina for fun
  22. jamesharmeling's Avatar
    CrackBerry Genius

    Posts
    2,002 Posts
    PIN
    333BF5D4
    #22  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermanicus View Post
    Indeed, a healthy exchange of views!

    I'm at a loss what to think. If BB are now removing BIS then effectively Blackberry is just another smartphone maker. They seem to be pushing us into the cloud whilst at the same time removing cloud syncing (eg BB Protect on Z10 no longer backs up data). I just don't trust big providers like Google not to abuse my personal data. I admit I don't know how to set up truly secure email but if I can do this on ANY smartphone then why do I need a Blackberry? I always felt, perhaps mistakenly, reassured with the level of security on a Blackberry.


    Why a BlackBerry? I can only speak for myself with this.

    Blackberry is much more than just a phone for me. It's a community of fervent BlackBerry enthusiasts that I get to do life with every day. We are a standalone group who are dedicated to an awesome company that brought smartphones into the world. The name alone has a deep history that I feel a part of. Been with them through the good times, the bad times and now into the new age with BB10. It's an exciting ride!

    I'm not a gamer and not a flashy guy. I'm not seeking the newest and the best. My BlackBerry's have always done what I wanted them to do and nothing more. Friends have always pulled out their iCrap and Dwoids around me to show off the latest this and that. My response has always been, "That's good for you. Glad you have something that makes you happy. I do too.". I know people who have simply bought new phones just so they can be with the "in crowd" and not made fun of. Never bothered me to have my BlackBerry sneered at. "I might not have the youngest and prettiest dog, but it's MY dog and I love it." has always been my feeling.

    This has been quite a ride all these years and I've ridden with a family. A family unlike any other. A family of that has a common love of all things BlackBerry. And like any family, it can be distressing and quite dysfunctional at times. That's because it's a real family. I look around and all I see is just another iPhone (blah, blah, yawn). When I meet BlackBerry users, it's like an instant comradeship. We have a connection that goes beyond "Look at my new app!". It's deep and close and I enjoy it very much and I will be here until the day that BlackBerry gives up the ghost....or I do.
    BB then, now, forever...yeah, I said it.
    Thanked by:
    tilapya (02-10-2013) 
  23. Maiev's Avatar
    CrackBerry Abuser

    Posts
    430 Posts
    #23  

    Default

    I have had this in my mind for awhile. Z10 is okay without BIS, but they should at LEAST give BIS as an option, like say, sign up 5 dollars and you have an agreement with RIM to have BIS served to you, attach to your blackberry ID (so you can swap SIM and continue to enjoy BIS). I really enjoy data compression now LTE eats data like a superstar
    Dropped my playbook on the street, then got it back! I'm one lucky person!
    Cropping your PlayBook Wallpaper for both Landscape and Portrait Guide (with PSD)
    Or, you can PM me with your email and the picture and I'll crop and email em back to your PlayBook.
    Phone - Z10 Q10 Z30. I like Q10 > Z30 > Z10
  24. b320's Avatar
    CrackBerry Addict

    Posts
    982 Posts
    #24  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maiev View Post
    I have had this in my mind for awhile. Z10 is okay without BIS, but they should at LEAST give BIS as an option, like say, sign up 5 dollars and you have an agreement with RIM to have BIS served to you, attach to your blackberry ID (so you can swap SIM and continue to enjoy BIS). I really enjoy data compression now LTE eats data like a superstar
    1. Carriers really wouldn't like that. They would take the position that it's not BlackBerry's place to cut out their data revenues by upselling "their" customers (such as you) directly. Carriers believe that every service revenue dollar belongs to them first.

    2. For LTE specifically, BlackBerry's rationale is (said to be) that using compression and routing through BIS actually results in *slower* data delivery because LTE is so much better (lower latency, faster speed, fatter pipe, etc). People tend to value speed and convenience over cost savings when cost isn't too high. Cost of mobile data is dropping.
  25. Maiev's Avatar
    CrackBerry Abuser

    Posts
    430 Posts
    #25  

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by b320 View Post
    1. Carriers really wouldn't like that. They would take the position that it's not BlackBerry's place to cut out their data revenues by upselling "their" customers (such as you) directly. Carriers believe that every service revenue dollar belongs to them first.

    2. For LTE specifically, BlackBerry's rationale is (said to be) that using compression and routing through BIS actually results in *slower* data delivery because LTE is so much better (lower latency, faster speed, fatter pipe, etc). People tend to value speed and convenience over cost savings when cost isn't too high. Cost of mobile data is dropping.
    Well you do have a point. But since RIM isn't even using BIS at all on BB10, I don't even think Carrier even need to pay anymore service fees due to BlackBerry 10. Though yes, if they do offer BIS as an additional service, maybe offer it through the Carriers, take the 5 bucks etc.. but IMO it should be an option, a premium option (if they can figure it out now). Even simple things like setting up an email and having NOC to provision all those settings for me was already worth it I would like RIM to sell BIS themselves cuz then I can roam around the world plug in a SIM and get on with life.

    Data cost did come down so... BIS is no longer relevant but for people that roams, each kb of data does cost a fortune so I was quite sad when there was no BIS, meaning the BB10 must be polling the server from time to time for new email :3
    Dropped my playbook on the street, then got it back! I'm one lucky person!
    Cropping your PlayBook Wallpaper for both Landscape and Portrait Guide (with PSD)
    Or, you can PM me with your email and the picture and I'll crop and email em back to your PlayBook.
    Phone - Z10 Q10 Z30. I like Q10 > Z30 > Z10
    bigbbrybeliever likes this.
Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-03-2013, 06:51 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-30-2013, 04:22 PM
  3. No BIS? No Problem!
    By gman4dx266 in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 01-12-2013, 10:59 PM
  4. I bought a used 8900,no bis,no bes
    By oneway888 in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-11-2010, 09:42 AM
  5. Data plan only usage [no BIS no BES] - possible?
    By f2tai in forum BlackBerry Curve 83xx
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-11-2009, 07:27 PM

Posting Permissions