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  1. sam_b77's Avatar
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    #26  

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    I don't understand why you speak in condescending manner to the OP (pranavvk)? OP is entitled to his opinion and criticism. This is a discussion forum after all!

    Besides, your argument is flawed. Anybody can make mistakes. Even executives of multi billion dollar companies. It's not like multi billion dollar companies have never gone bankrupt or out of business due to poor strategy, poor execution or poor products. It has happened. So, telling someone to shut-up simply because this person is not an owner of a multi billion dollar company is plain stupid.
    Your argument is equally flawed. Just because executives running a multi billion company can be wrong does not mean that every other person is right. It's not a zero sum game. The phone hasn't even hit the shelves yet and people like the OP have popped up giving their speculative analysis with absolutely zero data to back up their assertions. Let the first quarter sales of the Z10 come in for India. After that I would be interested in the OP's so called analysis. Till then anything on the subject is something he might have come up while smoking a joint.
    Through the Years :2001 Ericsson T29s> Sony Z5> Sony Z7> SE Z600>Moto A760> RAZR V3>Razr V3i>BB 8800>BB 9500 >BB 9800>Bold 9900..RIM Returns with a bang

    Life was much simpler when Apple and Blackberry were just fruits
  2. Hawkeberry's Avatar
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    #27  

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    I don't understand why you speak in condescending manner to the OP (pranavvk)? OP is entitled to his opinion and criticism. This is a discussion forum after all!

    Besides, your argument is flawed. Anybody can make mistakes. Even executives of multi billion dollar companies. It's not like multi billion dollar companies have never gone bankrupt or out of business due to poor strategy, poor execution or poor products. It has happened. So, telling someone to shut-up simply because this person is not an owner of a multi billion dollar company is plain stupid.


    OP was commenting on was that at such high price ($800), BlackBerry z10 might not sell well in India. We don't know what BlackBerry's intentions are or what kind of strategy they are playing with that kind of pricing but OP is just expressing his opinion that such high pricing won't yield as many sales.
    I agree. No need to get personal. It is just a discussion. It is all nice to show India's rich face here but that shouldn't stop people from understanding and allowing what OP has to say. Also Blackberry in recent years isn't exactly known for their mind-blowing strategies.
    Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted
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  3. sam_b77's Avatar
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    #28  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeberry View Post
    I agree. No need to get personal. It is just a discussion. It is all nice to show India's rich face here but that shouldn't stop people from understanding and allowing what OP has to say. Also Blackberry in recent years isn't exactly known for their mind-blowing strategies.
    Hawke,
    This is their flagship. Everyone knew that the price would be more than the 9900. Don't forget that the INR has fallen steeply against the USD. We paid $750 for the 9900 too. But since then INR plummeted. The phone is not that much more expensive, it's just the rupee has lost its value.
    Also you know very well that the cheaper OS10 devices will be launching later this year. BB is going for the top line right now. They will take care of the bottom line later. Their rebuilding wasn't going to be done in a few months. It's at least a two year climb out if it happens. But no one can keep moaning about something being priced at more than what they are willing or able to pay. It is what it is.
    Through the Years :2001 Ericsson T29s> Sony Z5> Sony Z7> SE Z600>Moto A760> RAZR V3>Razr V3i>BB 8800>BB 9500 >BB 9800>Bold 9900..RIM Returns with a bang

    Life was much simpler when Apple and Blackberry were just fruits
  4. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #29  

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    Quote Originally Posted by pranavvk View Post
    Its the Marketting strategy which is wrong, not the pricing strategy.
    Thank you for taking a break from doing marketing for RIM, Mr Boulben ...
    sam_b77 likes this.
  5. pranavvk's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #30  

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_b77 View Post
    Hey Pranav,
    Found a phone for you
    Attachment 137978
    It's the Nokia 1280. It's for $17. Now go to the Nokia forums and whine how that price is too expensive.
    I fail to understand why you are trying to be provocative and condescending when i have repeated multiple times that this thread is not about pricing. It is about the marketing strategy.
    I have made it very very clear in both my opening post and further posts.
  6. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    #31  

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_b77 View Post
    Your argument is equally flawed. Just because executives running a multi billion company can be wrong does not mean that every other person is right. It's not a zero sum game. The phone hasn't even hit the shelves yet and people like the OP have popped up giving their speculative analysis with absolutely zero data to back up their assertions. Let the first quarter sales of the Z10 come in for India. After that I would be interested in the OP's so called analysis. Till then anything on the subject is something he might have come up while smoking a joint.
    And no, my argument is NOT flawed at all (let alone, equally flawed). I didn't say OP was right. What I said was that there is nothing wrong in OP expressing his opinion or commenting or criticizing on BlackBerry's India strategy. There is no such rule that you've to be owner of a multi-billion dollar corporation before you criticise strategy of another multi-billion dollar corporation.

    As for "After that I would be interested in the OP's so called analysis" - well, if you are not interested, feel free to ignore this thread or not comment on OP's opinion.
  7. notfanboy's Avatar
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    #32  

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    I don't understand why you speak in condescending manner to the OP (pranavvk)? OP is entitled to his opinion and criticism. This is a discussion forum after all!

    Besides, your argument is flawed. Anybody can make mistakes. Even executives of multi billion dollar companies. It's not like multi billion dollar companies have never gone bankrupt or out of business due to poor strategy, poor execution or poor products. It has happened. So, telling someone to shut-up simply because this person is not an owner of a multi billion dollar company is plain stupid.


    When did OP ask for a handouts?
    Thank you for saying this. The OP made their point respectfully and made it clear several times that he wasn't criticizing the pricing. Despite this, he's being called a whiner. I would like to see less ad hominem attacks. Challenge the ideas, not the person

    Related to the topic of this thread. It seems to me that the while the Z10/Q10 will likely stop the bleeding in the "premium" markets (US, GB, Canada), they will not do much or may even have a negative effect for the "budget" markets (India, Africa, China). It will be interesting to see after a few months what the net effect is going to be.
    Thanked by:
    pranavvk (02-26-2013) 
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  8. sam_b77's Avatar
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    #33  

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    And no, my argument is NOT flawed at all (let alone, equally flawed). I didn't say OP was right. What I said was that there is nothing wrong in OP expressing his opinion or commenting or criticizing on BlackBerry's India strategy. There is no such rule that you've to be owner of a multi-billion dollar corporation before you criticise strategy of another multi-billion dollar corporation.

    As for "After that I would be interested in the OP's so called analysis" - well, if you are not interested, feel free to ignore this thread or not comment on OP's opinion.
    On the same freedom of speech and opinion vein, I'm entitled to post my analysis about the OP's analysis of BlackBerry's strategy or lack thereof.
    And going with the theme of your post, you could have scrolled past my posts as well. I wonder why you didn't?
    Through the Years :2001 Ericsson T29s> Sony Z5> Sony Z7> SE Z600>Moto A760> RAZR V3>Razr V3i>BB 8800>BB 9500 >BB 9800>Bold 9900..RIM Returns with a bang

    Life was much simpler when Apple and Blackberry were just fruits
  9. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    #34  

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_b77 View Post
    On the same freedom of speech and opinion vein, I'm entitled to post my analysis about the OP's analysis of BlackBerry's strategy or lack thereof.
    And going with the theme of your post, you could have scrolled past my posts as well. I wonder why you didn't?
    No, you were not analyzing OP's post. You were being condescending (and while you were at it, you displayed and continue to display distinct lack of comprehension skills).
    I did not move past your post because at no point did I indicate that I was NOT interested in the topic. You on the other hand 1) were condescending towards OP and 2) stated that "After that I would be interested in the OP's so called analysis". To which I responded, feel free to not comment, if you are not interested.
  10. pranavvk's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #35  

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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    Thank you for saying this. The OP made their point respectfully and made it clear several times that he wasn't criticizing the pricing. Despite this, he's being called a whiner. I would like to see less ad hominem attacks. Challenge the ideas, not the person

    Related to the topic of this thread. It seems to me that the while the Z10/Q10 will likely stop the bleeding in the "premium" markets (US, GB, Canada), they will not do much or may even have a negative effect for the "budget" markets (India, Africa, China). It will be interesting to see after a few months what the net effect is going to be.
    I personally dont think the Z10 is meant to be the premium phone. Its meant to be a "good enough to spark interest but a bit better than that" phone with a premium Aristo phone coming out soon.
    Blakberry honestly did not have a choice in releasing the Z10 as the first phone. If they had released a mid range phone first and the performance was in the least bit laggy...well... imagine the field day the tech blogs would have had...
    It is definitely a phone that can compete.

    But the weakness BB faces in emerging markets is that the Bold 9900 is not their representative phone for the masses. The representative phones are phones like the Curve 8520. Which is where my comment on differentiation comes along.
    I
  11. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    #36  

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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    Thank you for saying this. The OP made their point respectfully and made it clear several times that he wasn't criticizing the pricing. Despite this, he's being called a whiner. I would like to see less ad hominem attacks. Challenge the ideas, not the person

    Related to the topic of this thread. It seems to me that the while the Z10/Q10 will likely stop the bleeding in the "premium" markets (US, GB, Canada), they will not do much or may even have a negative effect for the "budget" markets (India, Africa, China). It will be interesting to see after a few months what the net effect is going to be.
    I don't know what their India strategy is. But if they are trying to sell a LOT of Z10 in India, they are in for a surprise. Curve outsells Bold in budget markets simply because Curve is cheaper.

    So, maybe, their strategy is to create desire by launching a premium-priced product (Z10). Lots of rich folks will buy it (% wise there might not be as many rich people in India, but due to sheer size of 1 Billion + population, there are still numerically significant number of people in India who can afford Z10 at $800 or even higher). This will create desire among a lot of people who could not afford Z10 and prime them for a lower-priced version of Z10 (let's call it Z5 for argument sake). This Z5 could be curve-equivalent of Z10.
    Similar to how they sell tons of Curves in budget markets, while also selling not-insignificant number of Bold devices.
  12. Hawkeberry's Avatar
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    #37  

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_b77 View Post
    Hawke,
    This is their flagship. Everyone knew that the price would be more than the 9900. Don't forget that the INR has fallen steeply against the USD. We paid $750 for the 9900 too. But since then INR plummeted. The phone is not that much more expensive, it's just the rupee has lost its value.
    Also you know very well that the cheaper OS10 devices will be launching later this year. BB is going for the top line right now. They will take care of the bottom line later. Their rebuilding wasn't going to be done in a few months. It's at least a two year climb out if it happens. But no one can keep moaning about something being priced at more than what they are willing or able to pay. It is what it is.
    I am more interested in the Q10 and maybe the Aristo so I am not moaning about the price of Z10. What I want is Z10 to be popular so that my friends can pick one up or else there won't be any use of BBM (lol not really interested in adding the embarrassing people on BB FB page who keep spamming their PIN in every post). The 9900 (though slightly expensive) is a kickass phone. A Premium keypad phone that offered something other flagships didn't. Also count the free 3G through BIS and it makes it a very attractive option.

    Where are the Z10 ads? Most of those who are making fun of Blackberry on twitter don't even know it is not the same curve and storm that is being priced at 43k but with them being a joke all day yesterday and today, I am not sure whether the beating the image took will ever fully recover.

    No doubt it is what it is and that is the problem. Less buyers = less sales = less apps = playbook. At least the Q10 will have the keypad if not the apps.
    Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted
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  13. pranavvk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeberry View Post

    where are the z10 ads? Most of those who are making fun of blackberry on twitter don't even know it is not the same curve and storm that is being priced at 43k but with them being a joke all day yesterday and today, i am not sure whether the beating the image took will ever fully recover.
    exactly my point!!!
  14. pranavvk's Avatar
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    Thread AuthorThread Author   #39  

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysaurora View Post
    I don't know what their India strategy is. But if they are trying to sell a LOT of Z10 in India, they are in for a surprise. Curve outsells Bold in budget markets simply because Curve is cheaper.

    So, maybe, their strategy is to create desire by launching a premium-priced product (Z10). Lots of rich folks will buy it (% wise there might not be as many rich people in India, but due to sheer size of 1 Billion + population, there are still numerically significant number of people in India who can afford Z10 at $800 or even higher). This will create desire among a lot of people who could not afford Z10 and prime them for a lower-priced version of Z10 (let's call it Z5 for argument sake). This Z5 could be curve-equivalent of Z10.
    Similar to how they sell tons of Curves in budget markets, while also selling not-insignificant number of Bold devices.
    1) I really hope they dont call it the Z5

    2) They should have taken the opportunity to flood the market with ads proclaiming the revolutionary new platform so that when the mid-price curve equivalents come out, they will be well recieved.
  15. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #40  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeberry View Post
    Where are the Z10 ads?
    That's a separate issue, I think. Not sure where the ads are in India, but they're everywhere in Canada. Every site I got to is showing me Z10. Every store that sells phones is showing me Z10. I watch TV, I see commercials. I listen to the radio, I heard commercials. Maybe the regional marketing strategy could use some work.

    Most of those who are making fun of Blackberry on twitter don't even know it is not the same curve and storm that is being priced at 43k but with them being a joke all day yesterday and today, I am not sure whether the beating the image took will ever fully recover.
    While I can't stand the use of "most of those" without scientific data, I definitely see the issue. Last night, my best friend told me he was going to wait for Q10 because Z10 was just like the STORM he used to have. Had no idea it was a completely different OS, different virtual keyboard and substantially different hardware. He kept saying, "are you sure it's not like the Storm?" I finally said, "it's about a similar to the Storm as the iPhone is to the Storm. Then he got it.
  16. RubberChicken76's Avatar
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    #41  

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    Quote Originally Posted by notafanboy View Post
    Related to the topic of this thread. It seems to me that the while the Z10/Q10 will likely stop the bleeding in the "premium" markets (US, GB, Canada), they will not do much or may even have a negative effect for the "budget" markets (India, Africa, China). It will be interesting to see after a few months what the net effect is going to be.
    I'm really interested to see if they come out with a BlackBerry 10 "Curve" esque device? A "C10" if you will. Maybe a lower end device with internals like the original PlayBook?
  17. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    I'm really interested to see if they come out with a BlackBerry 10 "Curve" esque device? A "C10" if you will. Maybe a lower end device with internals like the original PlayBook?
    I remember from one of the Thorsten's interview that they'll come up with it. Somebody had asked him how many phones do you plan to launch? And he gave a vague answer like.. you've a keyboard version, full touch version, and then you've premium price variants, mid-range price variants. So, you do the math, that gives you an approximate number.

    So, if I understood him correctly:
    For each form factor, they will have two price-variants (premium and mid-range, like Bold and Curve).
  18. Hawkeberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberChicken76 View Post
    That's a separate issue, I think. Not sure where the ads are in India, but they're everywhere in Canada. Every site I got to is showing me Z10. Every store that sells phones is showing me Z10. I watch TV, I see commercials. I listen to the radio, I heard commercials. Maybe the regional marketing strategy could use some work.
    how is it a separate issue? This thread is about Blackberry's strategy in India.
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  19. dj_matty_s's Avatar
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    The z10 was never going to be a phone for the masses in India. The "Curve" variant will be. Consider the z10 a soft launch.

    Posted via CB10
  20. chrysaurora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_matty_s View Post
    The z10 was never going to be a phone for the masses in India. The "Curve" variant will be. Consider the z10 a soft launch.
    Posted via CB10
    Yeah, I feel like they are "priming" the masses in India, getting them hungry, for Curve-equivalent of Z10 and Q10 by launching the Z10 at higher price than even Canada. I suspect we'll see a Curve equivalent before September (back to school season in Canada).

    On the other hand, if they were hoping to aggressively Z10 in India, they are unlikely to succeed. At $800, Z10 is not budget friendly even for US/Canada, let alone budget markets like India, Africa.
  21. dj_matty_s's Avatar
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    That's the point though, the z10 isn't designed to be a "budget" friendly device at all. It's a premium device, and is priced that way. The reality thought, is that the average Canadian/American/European can afford a "premium" device if they really want one, whereas in India it doesn't necessarily work that way. That's just the reality of developing nations. The budget friendly "curve" variant will be a much better fit then the z10 ever could be in India. Also, the price in India is very marginally more expensive then in Canada. Here we pay 649-699 + tax (~13% depending on the province), which works out to $730 - $791, so if it's available in India for around $800 & considering it's an import, it's essentially the same price.

    Posted via a Nokia 1280
    Last edited by dj_matty_s; 02-26-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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    #47  

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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_matty_s View Post
    That's the point though, the z10 isn't designed to be a "budget" friendly device at all. It's a premium device, and is priced that way. The reality thought, is that the average Canadian/American/European can afford a "premium" device if they really want one, whereas in India it doesn't necessarily work that way. That's just the reality of developing nations. The budget friendly "curve" variant will be a much better fit then the z10 ever could be in India. Also, the price in India is very marginally more expensive then in Canada. Here we pay 649-699 + tax (~13% depending on the province), which works out to $730 - $791, so if it's available in India for around $800 & considering it's an import, it's essentially the same price.
    But they don't understand that. They keep beating the drum of. "Oh no z10 too expensive. 800$ or 43000 Rupees for a phone"

    "BlackBerry bad bad strategy"

    To think the marketers are sitting in Waterloo or Bombay having caviars and these so called "Critics" are whining about th pricing.

    Posted via a microwave.
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  23. toujours_frais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeberry View Post
    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/26/eheme9y2.jpg

    Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2
    Its still cheaper than the iphone 5 though
  24. dj_matty_s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramin mayar View Post
    Posted via a microwave.
  25. Hawkeberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toujours_frais View Post
    Its still cheaper than the iphone 5 though
    iPhone 5 must be pressing its home button and sweating
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